From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: SX 1 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 00:40:19 -0500 Dear PBS, I am glad to see Steve Marak involved with the Seed Exchange and giving Dell some much needed relief. Does this mean that all future seed donations are to be sent to Steve and still to Dell? I have some fresh Lycoris seed that requires fast turn around as it has a short shelf life. Appreciate a reply before Monday mailing time. Best Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Fri, 31 Oct 2014 23:17:04 -0700 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: SX 1 Date: Fri, 31 Oct 2014 22:52:08 -0700 Jim, Dell previously stated that seeds & bulbs are to be sent to him. Karl On Oct 31, 2014 10:40 PM, "James Waddick" wrote: > > Dear PBS, > > I am glad to see Steve Marak involved with the Seed Exchange and > giving Dell some much needed relief. > > Does this mean that all future seed donations are to be sent to > Steve and still to Dell? I have some fresh Lycoris seed that > requires fast turn around as it has a short shelf life. > > Appreciate a reply before Monday mailing time. Best > Jim W. > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 01 Nov 2014 06:17:03 -0700 Message-Id: <645190.553.bm@smtp212.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Subject: SX 1 Date: Sat, 1 Nov 2014 12:32:18 +0000 Yes. Karl is correct. Please continue to send ALL seeds and bulbs to Dell. Incidentally, Karl is also helping with the new SX in a huge way by doing all of the tedious packeting of seeds. Thank you, Karl! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX Sent from Windows Mail From: Karl Church Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎1‎, ‎2014 ‎1‎:‎52‎ ‎AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Jim, Dell previously stated that seeds & bulbs are to be sent to him. Karl On Oct 31, 2014 10:40 PM, "James Waddick" wrote: > > Dear PBS, > > I am glad to see Steve Marak involved with the Seed Exchange and > giving Dell some much needed relief. > > Does this mean that all future seed donations are to be sent to > Steve and still to Dell? I have some fresh Lycoris seed that > requires fast turn around as it has a short shelf life. > > Appreciate a reply before Monday mailing time. Best > Jim W. > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5457B8B4.6090300@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Crinums Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:17:40 -0800 Dear All: All crinum orders were shipped this morning by USPS Priority Mail. Please don't ask me for tracking numbers unless there is a problem. I don't have the time to type out dozens of tracking numbers. Most are supposed to be delivered on Wednesday. Many thanks for your patience. Diana Telos From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Mon, 03 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5457C1A0.6070804@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Crinums Date: Mon, 03 Nov 2014 09:55:44 -0800 Dear All: All crinum orders were shipped this morning by USPS Priority Mail. Please don't ask me for tracking numbers unless there is a problem. I don't have the time to type out dozens of tracking numbers. Most are supposed to be delivered on Wednesday. Many thanks for your patience. Diana Telos From klazina1@gmail.com Wed, 05 Nov 2014 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <545AA90F.70207@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: Rainlilies Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:47:43 +1300 I have been on Facebook for a couple of years now. An amazing place for bulb enthusiasts. In fact, it has been wonderful to connect with others who are into Rainlilies. I gave up on the PBS forum as there was so much that was of absolutely no interest to me, and the wangling over spellings etc. Yes, a lot was worth while knowing, but that is on Facebook too. The PBS website is an amazing source of info. The number of FB members who refer to it is also amazing. If only the 2 could be welded together! I thought I would check on what I have missed out on with the BX this year in the way of seeds. And what do you know, there was a heap of Rainlily seeds in April. Wow! Until I looked and they were the ones I sent. The PBS has wonderful, knowledgeable people, and so does Facebook. Wonderful where the two overlap. For those who want to respond to this email, remember, I no longer follow the forum. Ina Crossley Auckland, New Zealand From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 05 Nov 2014 16:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1415232770.64462.YahooMailNeo@web126206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Rainlilies Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:12:50 -0800 I'm sorry to read that Ina has given up on the PBS Forum. I'm sorry, but I'm not surprised. In the mid-1990s, when workplace email access became common, I had older friends who were retiring. We kept in touch over the years, but it became obvious that they had missed the electronic revolution which was starting. They never got comfortable with email (which they eventually got in response to the clamor that "everyone has to have email"), never discovered the innumerable doors which Google would open. I felt sorry for them. Now, twenty years later, I'm in the same boat. I'm still on a computer. Family members are telling me I have to get an iPhone - I'm still on a land line. When I was out in the working world, the only people who had wireless communication devices were the janitors. I used to think "I'm sure glad I don't have to have one of those things with people bugging me all day and night". My senses of privacy and personal space are evidently very old fashioned. It's not uncommon now to step outside and hear one of my neighbors discussing financial and other personal matters in a loud voice on their front steps (the reception inside is not so good), matters which I would be mortified to reveal to neighbors. Every day the daily newspaper provides plenty of evidence that the grammar and spelling conventions I grew up with are changing rapidly. I've been marginalized, and I'm sure it's just starting. A little voice keeps telling me "Get used to it". Many of the old horticultural organizations are all moaning about dropping membership and the lack of younger members. But some of those same organizations refuse to read the writing on the wall: they continue to try to publish expensive paper journals and hold meetings so sited that the membership has to travel across a continent to attend. They could save loads of money by putting their journals on line and using modern telecommunication innovations to conduct meetings. But they're balking. And while they balk, they overlook what is really happening on the ground: there are in fact loads of people with a keen interest in horticulture, people who for one reason or another did not participate in the old-style forums. Evidently Facebook gives them the sort of platform they want. The old ways of doing things are fading away. I read recently that Yahoo is starting to distance itself from the Yahoo groups many special interest groups depend on for communication. I may be getting old, but I still want to be able to be current, to be able to keep an eye on what is going on. Maybe it's time to get an iPhone and check out Facebook. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, not that any of that is relevant to this topic. From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Rainlilies Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 01:49:10 +0100 Well Jim You don't need an ipod to try facebook I was very against it till two years ago , a PBS member explained me how to manipulate it I wasn't happy with the way pictures from other "friends" in my page could be posted and started my own group Now 18 months later 3500+ people are enjoying the pictures and knowledge in the group Many times we use the PBS wiki and tell members where they find the PBS and Scottish rock garden society , for me the two best sources for serious information If anybody needs help to be anonymous on facebook just PM me or have a look in our group See link below Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ 2014-11-06 1:12 GMT+01:00 Jim McKenney : > I'm sorry to read that Ina has given up on the PBS Forum. I'm sorry, but > I'm not surprised. > In the mid-1990s, when workplace email access became common, I had older > friends who were retiring. We kept in touch over the years, but it became > obvious that they had missed the electronic revolution which was starting. > They never got comfortable with email (which they eventually got in > response to the clamor that "everyone has to have email"), never discovered > the innumerable doors which Google would open. I felt sorry for them. > Now, twenty years later, I'm in the same boat. I'm still on a computer. > Family members are telling me I have to get an iPhone - I'm still on a land > line. When I was out in the working world, the only people who had > wireless communication devices were the janitors. I used to think "I'm sure > glad I don't have to have one of those things with people bugging me all > day and night". My senses of privacy and personal space are evidently very > old fashioned. It's not uncommon now to step outside and hear one of my > neighbors discussing financial and other personal matters in a loud voice > on their front steps (the reception inside is not so good), matters which I > would be mortified to reveal to neighbors. > Every day the daily newspaper provides plenty of evidence that the grammar > and spelling conventions I grew up with are changing rapidly. > I've been marginalized, and I'm sure it's just starting. > A little voice keeps telling me "Get used to it". > Many of the old horticultural organizations are all moaning about dropping > membership and the lack of younger members. But some of those same > organizations refuse to read the writing on the wall: they continue to try > to publish expensive paper journals and hold meetings so sited that the > membership has to travel across a continent to attend. They could save > loads of money by putting their journals on line and using modern > telecommunication innovations to conduct meetings. But they're balking. > And while they balk, they overlook what is really happening on the > ground: there are in fact loads of people with a keen interest in > horticulture, people who for one reason or another did not participate in > the old-style forums. Evidently Facebook gives them the sort of platform > they want. > The old ways of doing things are fading away. I read recently that Yahoo > is starting to distance itself from the Yahoo groups many special interest > groups depend on for communication. > I may be getting old, but I still want to be able to be current, to be > able to keep an eye on what is going on. > Maybe it's time to get an iPhone and check out Facebook. > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, not that any of that is > relevant to this topic. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Wed, 05 Nov 2014 17:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Rainlilies Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:54:49 +1000 Oh Ina, even though you may not read this it means something to say it.... Don't be so disheartened, your input gave me an enthusiastic interest in zephyranthes & thanks to your contributions I now have a lovely collection of them... Im a terrible speller, but we have to let it be water off a ducks back, there are many out there who's first language is not English & many of us would never have the time to contribute if we concentrated too hard on the spelling instead of the point... But most of all I here you say, you would like to see groups connect or overlap.. Well we do really, there is facebook groups as you know & I my self often refer to PBS as a wonderful source of information or a great place to ask a question, & by doing so I am now in the middle of overlapping groups in a sense.. But I do know what you mean though... I have said before, I think one of the reasons some people like facebook groups is, you can easily download a photo, instead of going through the time consuming method that is needed to post a link instead.. It would be good to see you still sending your seeds to give others a chance to grow their love of zephyranthes Happy collecting Steven On 6 November 2014 08:47, Ina Crossley wrote: > I have been on Facebook for a couple of years now. An amazing place for > bulb enthusiasts. In fact, it has been wonderful to connect with others > who are into Rainlilies. > > I gave up on the PBS forum as there was so much that was of absolutely no > interest to me, and the wangling over spellings etc. Yes, a lot was worth > while knowing, but that is on Facebook too. > > The PBS website is an amazing source of info. The number of FB members > who refer to it is also amazing. > > If only the 2 could be welded together! > > I thought I would check on what I have missed out on with the BX this year > in the way of seeds. And what do you know, there was a heap of Rainlily > seeds in April. Wow! Until I looked and they were the ones I sent. > > The PBS has wonderful, knowledgeable people, and so does Facebook. > Wonderful where the two overlap. > > For those who want to respond to this email, remember, I no longer follow > the forum. > > Ina Crossley > Auckland, New Zealand > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From enoster@hotmail.com Wed, 05 Nov 2014 21:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Changing times Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:58:09 -0800 This is in response to Ina and Jim's words. I just turned 29 today, but I get the feeling that I am one of the younger ones into bulbs and (rock) gardening in general (let alone the forum). Things like Ian Young's Bulb Log, PBS wiki and PBS forum are perfect for me because I can easily access them with my phone, which is really just a compact computer with a phone app (smartphones). My free time is little and I must make every moment in my day (and night) count. I have a 1 year old baby girl who I gladly spend most of my free time with, a full time job, and an ever growing list of house chores from my wife. Yet I love bulbs, tending to my rock garden, and expanding my forest garden with all sorts of interesting species mostly from seed. My point in telling you all this is that I probably represent many of the "Millennial" generation by being so busy, thus not having the time or extra income to be a part of any of the great plant societies. I may even be one of few of my generation to have such an obsession with plants and growing species from seed. I do wish the PBS offered more ways to interconnect with other members (or an easier way to share pictures, without a third party like Flikr) -Travis Owen Rogue River, OR See my garden pictures on my Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/travislloydowen From m.ager@xtra.co.nz Thu, 06 Nov 2014 00:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1415258558.97472.YahooMailNeo@web121301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Seaton Ager Subject: Help with Lilium Nanum Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:22:38 -0800 Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for them to grow, I grow them in pots. many thanks Mel From erik@tepuidesign.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 01:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erik Van Lennep Subject: Keeping current (with tech) Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:59:51 +0100 Too right, Jim. I work every day at the nexus of ecological regeneration and opportunities for young people. There is probably a higher interest than ever amongst those who would put PBS (along with that of many other organisations) information to good use, so flagging membership is not a factor of disinterest. The old maxim is still very true: "If you want to get someone to join you, walk over and stand beside them, then walk back together to where you'd like to be." It's beyond pointless to persist in trying to get them to jump on board your old leaky boat! And remember a good definition of madness is "repeating the same (futile) action over and over, expecting a different result". erik On 6 November 2014 01:49 Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:12:50 -0800 From: Jim McKenney wrote: >Many of the old horticultural organizations are all moaning about dropping > membership and the lack of younger members..... ..... Erik van Lennep , Europe (Ireland, The Netherlands and Catalunya) SKYPE green.heart www.circlesquared.org youth and elders short video http://www.linkedin.com/in/erikvanlennep <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> *Innovation Studio* "we teach sustainability, creativity, effective communication and personal management skills to aspiring entrepreneurs and leaders". ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ *“You never change things by fighting the existing reality.To change something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.”* *― Richard Buckminster Fuller* _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ceridwen@internode.on.net Thu, 06 Nov 2014 03:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <7B830C65-BCDB-44EE-AB2F-9EE0DAA377C0@internode.on.net> From: Ceridwen Lloyd Subject: Help with Lilium Nanum Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:14:51 +1030 I second that request - and does anyone have seed to sell? Sent from my iPhone > On 6 Nov 2014, at 5:52 pm, Seaton Ager wrote: > > Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for them to grow, I grow them in pots. > > many thanks Mel > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 06 Nov 2014 05:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <545B6E09.4020807@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:48:09 +0000 Hi, Today many of the newspapers in the UK report the return of commercial saffron growing in England, after a break of 200 years, to the town that takes its name from the flower "Saffron Walden". Here's a link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/11212315/Putting-saffron-back-into-Saffron-Walden.html -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From teck11@embarqmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 06:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <001601cff9c8$8da80d10$a8f82730$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:49:56 -0500 Saffron grows very well in zone 6 USA. The only problem is voles which will destroy (decimate is too mild a word) a patch in a few weeks. The secret involves hardware cloth. It's also very easy to control weeds because the summer dormancy allows mowing or herbiciding depending on your bent. (Please don't rant about RoundUp - pure glyphosate is less toxic than table salt). At my previous house I had about 100 square feet of saffron bed which grew from a couple of pounds of bulbs a Pennsylvania Dutch friend gave me. There was no real secret in Lancaster county - they double or triple each year and need to be thinned every other year. When I moved, I thought I'd give it a try without the hardware cloth and the patch disappeared completely except for one or two that bloomed a couple of years. I still have a few ounces of saffron lying around and giggle every time I see the prices in stores. The PA Dutch also use 'American saffron' which is the flower of safflower, a brilliantly yellow orange flowered annual thistle reminiscent of holly. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of David Pilling Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:48 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Saffron Walden Hi, Today many of the newspapers in the UK report the return of commercial saffron growing in England, after a break of 200 years, to the town that takes its name from the flower "Saffron Walden". Here's a link: http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/11212315/Putting-saffro n-back-into-Saffron-Walden.html -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Help with Lilium Nanum Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 09:26:32 -0800 I've grown Lilium nanum (in both cases the purple form) to flowering twice but was not able to keep it going. This is a small-growing Himalayan species whose habitat is described as "alpine scrub at 4000-4250 meters." That tells you everything you need to know about why this bulb is hard for us to grow (unless "we" live in the North Atlantic rim countries -- I expect the Scots carpet their rock gardens with it). Alpine bulbs, like other high alpines, have evolved to survive a long winter dormancy under snow cover, where they are fairly dry and the temperature is much milder than the air temperature above the snow. If I get this bulb again, I'll try overwintering it by drying it off but not completely, sealing the pot in a plastic freezer bag, and keeping it in the refrigerator (not the freezer) from November through April. I would use a soil mix of sand, peat, and (with apologies to non-Northwesterners) lots of ground pumice. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA 22 PM 11/5/2014, you wrote: >Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is >displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell >me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with >the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for >them to grow, I grow them in pots. > >many thanks Mel From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:00:12 -0600 Hi all, We have discussion about this topic quite periodically on this forum and I think anyone involving in a plant society will have been in discussion with their society about dwindling members. The fact is, as Jane McGary one time pointed out, "young" people now are too distracted and they are not settled into a more stable economic life until they reach their late or early 40's. So rather than trying to appeal to young people who would like to grow plants but have to pay rent instead, the focus should be on people in their 40's and 50's. I think that focus on the middle aged demographics as well and reaching out to the younger ones should happen simultaneously. As it turns out, Facebook laments the fact that most of their users are no longer young people. Younger people have moved on to other fast-paced even more ephemeral nature of social media. I still think that the Facebook model works well for spreading words about the PBS, but it does not allow for deep discussion that could then be archived and retrieved later on. Try searching for some growing advice by Jim Shields on Hippeastrum and you'd go mad trying to navigate their search pages. The Board of Directors have always tried our best to reflect the current wants of our membership. Sometimes it's not easy since we have to take into account all demographics of the society. It sounds like there is a want for a different style of forum, one that allows easy photo attachments. I think it's time we take some action, but before we could implement anything, we'd like to hear what YOU, the forum members think and what YOU have to say. If we have enough interests, we can start the ball rolling. So, let the discussion begin. Also, to help us gauge interest, I have created a short survey. Please help us decide what is the best course of action. It will only take a minute and will allow you to voice your thoughts on what you'd like your forum to be. https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5-Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform Nhu PBS President On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:58 PM, T O wrote: > My point in telling you all this is that I probably represent many of the > "Millennial" generation by being so busy, thus not having the time or extra > income to be a part of any of the great plant societies. I may even be one > of few of my generation to have such an obsession with plants and growing > species from seed. > From klazina1@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <545BC786.6090007@gmail.com> From: Ina Crossley Subject: joining Facebook Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:09:58 +1300 There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like me, it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts of plant interests as well as other interests of course. I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older people. If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done that, just look for your interests. Ina From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: joining Facebook Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:12:21 -0500 And, it's another full time job! :) On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Ina Crossley wrote: > There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show > yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like me, > it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts of > plant interests as well as other interests of course. > > I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, > anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older > people. > > If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I > regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check > your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done > that, just look for your interests. > > Ina > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bulborum@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 11:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: joining Facebook Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 20:14:42 +0100 I use both I think this is the best of the two worlds This is the best way if you want to try To set up Facebook Just install it with Fake info Name fake (I just use my first correct name Roland) For example Bulb King Place where you live Fake (100 km far away) Day of birth as old as possible (I think I am 86 but kept day and month correct for my friends) and so on all fake Your email and phone must be correct So all they know now is your first name (can be fake too) ,email and phone Create your account After creating open facebook you click on the small triangle in the right corner Choose properties Here you can manipulate all Say NO to everything That means your email address just visible for you your phone number just visible for you Two exceptions Pictures must be public (otherwise nobody can see them) and who can see my posts you make "just friends" Friends you choose yourself and you know soon which are serious or not Best you run it on a browser like Firefox , Chrome or Opera Install "Social fixer" in it and you can click away almost every part (advertisements) Also install "adblock" to stop most advertisements in your browser Hope this helps a little If you have more questions just mail me private Have a nice day Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-06 20:09 GMT+01:00 Ina Crossley : > There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show > yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like me, > it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts of > plant interests as well as other interests of course. > > I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, > anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older > people. > > If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I > regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check > your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done > that, just look for your interests. > > Ina > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From prallen2@peoplepc.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <14979370.1415301451379.JavaMail.root@wamui-june.atl.sa.earthlink.net> From: patty allen Subject: joining Facebook Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 13:17:31 -0600 (GMT-06:00) Thank you again for some valuable information, I would not know not to do this if you hadn't been kind enough to relay your experiences with me. Regards, Patty -----Original Message----- >From: Ina Crossley >Sent: Nov 6, 2014 1:09 PM >To: "PBS >> Pacific Bulb Society" >Subject: [pbs] re joining Facebook > >There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show >yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like >me, it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts >of plant interests as well as other interests of course. > >I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, >anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older >people. > >If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I >regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check >your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done >that, just look for your interests. > >Ina >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545BD6A2.1090304@btinternet.com> From: Youngs Aberdeen Subject: Changing times Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:14:26 +0000 Travis - I hope you enjoyed a very good birthday - Ian and I wish you many happy returns of the day! We are pleased to hear you are one of the 50 thousand or so who enjoy Ian's Bulb Log very week - I am always excited when I see how good the Bulb Log and International Rock Gardener e-magazine look on a tablet, but I admit I haven't seen them on a smart-phone. I may get one when my carrier pigeon dies!! I'm afraid your facebook link does not open for me - even other facebook links which I am told are public remain resolutely closed - no idea why . Best wishes to you and may you continue to gain pleasure from the joy of bulbs and rock gardening ! Maggi Young http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?action=forum http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/index.php?log=international http://www.srgc.org.uk/logs/index.php?log=bulb From youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545BD73A.2000405@btinternet.com> From: Youngs Aberdeen Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 20:16:58 +0000 Sorry Nhu, I'm getting an error message from your questionnaire link. Message is : " Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist." https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5-Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform/ M.Y. From totototo@telus.net Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545B6944.4718.CC340@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:27:48 -0800 On 6 Nov 2014, at 8:49, Tim Eck wrote: > At my previous house I had about 100 square feet of saffron bed which grew > from a couple of pounds of bulbs a Pennsylvania Dutch friend gave me. That may have been Crocus nudiflorus, not C. sativus. I've read that Pennsylvania Dutch farmers often have a patch of it by the back steps. They urinate on it and thereby get fabulous growth. The stamens & anthers can be used as a condiment exactly like those of C. sativus can. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 15:58:06 -0500 Worked just fine for me. Try resetting your browser. On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 3:16 PM, Youngs Aberdeen < youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com> wrote: > Sorry Nhu, > > I'm getting an error message from your questionnaire link. > Message is : " Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist." > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5- > Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform/ > > > M.Y. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 06 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:59:43 -0600 Hi Maggie, For some reason you for the link you got had a / at the end that broke the link. Try this one without the / at the end: https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5-Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform Nhu On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:16 PM, Youngs Aberdeen < youngs.aberdeen@btinternet.com> wrote: > I'm getting an error message from your questionnaire link. > Message is : " Sorry, the file you have requested does not exist." > > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5-Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform/ > From blancawingate@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545C28AA.1070307@gmail.com> From: Blanca Wingate Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 18:04:26 -0800 Dear Nhu, I want to complete your survey. Tried both links without success. Always get the same error message as Youngs Aberdeen. Best, Blanca From brugmansia@me.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <02339F14-6194-4BEF-8546-DCC4366890FE@me.com> From: "Brug@me.com" Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 2 Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 13:22:06 +1100 I'm new and have no idea how this place works? iPhone 6 Shaund > On 7 Nov 2014, at 6:12 am, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: re Rainlilies (steven hart) > 2. Re: Changing times (T O) > 3. Help with Lilium Nanum (Seaton Ager) > 4. Re: Keeping current (with tech) (Erik Van Lennep) > 5. Re: Help with Lilium Nanum (Ceridwen Lloyd) > 6. Saffron Walden (David Pilling) > 7. Re: Saffron Walden (Tim Eck) > 8. Re: Help with Lilium Nanum (Jane McGary) > 9. PBS forum style and survey (Nhu Nguyen) > 10. re joining Facebook (Ina Crossley) > 11. Re: re joining Facebook (Jude Haverington) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 10:54:49 +1000 > From: steven hart > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re Rainlilies > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Oh Ina, even though you may not read this it means something to say it.... > Don't be so disheartened, your input gave me an enthusiastic interest in > zephyranthes & thanks to your contributions I now have a lovely collection > of them... > > Im a terrible speller, but we have to let it be water off a ducks back, > there are many out there who's first language is not English & many of us > would never have the time to contribute if we concentrated too hard on the > spelling instead of the point... > > But most of all I here you say, you would like to see groups connect or > overlap.. Well we do really, there is facebook groups as you know & I my > self often refer to PBS as a wonderful source of information or a great > place to ask a question, & by doing so I am now in the middle of > overlapping groups in a sense.. But I do know what you mean though... > > I have said before, I think one of the reasons some people like > facebook groups is, you can easily download a photo, instead of going > through the time consuming method that is needed to post a link instead.. > > It would be good to see you still sending your seeds to give others a > chance to grow their love of zephyranthes > Happy collecting > Steven > > > >> On 6 November 2014 08:47, Ina Crossley wrote: >> >> I have been on Facebook for a couple of years now. An amazing place for >> bulb enthusiasts. In fact, it has been wonderful to connect with others >> who are into Rainlilies. >> >> I gave up on the PBS forum as there was so much that was of absolutely no >> interest to me, and the wangling over spellings etc. Yes, a lot was worth >> while knowing, but that is on Facebook too. >> >> The PBS website is an amazing source of info. The number of FB members >> who refer to it is also amazing. >> >> If only the 2 could be welded together! >> >> I thought I would check on what I have missed out on with the BX this year >> in the way of seeds. And what do you know, there was a heap of Rainlily >> seeds in April. Wow! Until I looked and they were the ones I sent. >> >> The PBS has wonderful, knowledgeable people, and so does Facebook. >> Wonderful where the two overlap. >> >> For those who want to respond to this email, remember, I no longer follow >> the forum. >> >> Ina Crossley >> Auckland, New Zealand >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > -- > Steven : ) > Esk Queensland Australia > Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 20:58:09 -0800 > From: T O > To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Changing times > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252" > > This is in response to Ina and Jim's words. > > I just turned 29 today, but I get the feeling that I am one of the younger ones into bulbs and (rock) gardening in general (let alone the forum). Things like Ian Young's Bulb Log, PBS wiki and PBS forum are perfect for me because I can easily access them with my phone, which is really just a compact computer with a phone app (smartphones). My free time is little and I must make every moment in my day (and night) count. I have a 1 year old baby girl who I gladly spend most of my free time with, a full time job, and an ever growing list of house chores from my wife. Yet I love bulbs, tending to my rock garden, and expanding my forest garden with all sorts of interesting species mostly from seed. My point in telling you all this is that I probably represent many of the "Millennial" generation by being so busy, thus not having the time or extra income to be a part of any of the great plant societies. I may even be one of few of my generation to have such an obsession with plan ts > and growing species from seed. > > I do wish the PBS offered more ways to interconnect with other members (or an easier way to share pictures, without a third party like Flikr) > > -Travis Owen > Rogue River, OR > See my garden pictures on my Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/travislloydowen > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Wed, 5 Nov 2014 23:22:38 -0800 > From: Seaton Ager > To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" > Subject: [pbs] Help with Lilium Nanum > Message-ID: > <1415258558.97472.YahooMailNeo@web121301.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for them to grow, I grow them in pots. > > many thanks Mel > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 09:59:51 +0100 > From: Erik Van Lennep > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Keeping current (with tech) > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Too right, Jim. I work every day at the nexus of ecological regeneration > and opportunities for young people. There is probably a higher interest > than ever amongst those who would put PBS (along with that of many other > organisations) information to good use, so flagging membership is not a > factor of disinterest. > > The old maxim is still very true: "If you want to get someone to join you, > walk over and stand beside them, then walk back together to where you'd > like to be." It's beyond pointless to persist in trying to get them to jump > on board your old leaky boat! > > And remember a good definition of madness is "repeating the same (futile) > action over and over, expecting a different result". > > > erik > > On 6 November 2014 01:49 Wed, 5 Nov 2014 16:12:50 -0800 > From: Jim McKenney wrote: > >> Many of the old horticultural organizations are all moaning about dropping >> membership and the lack of younger members..... > > ..... > > Erik van Lennep , Europe (Ireland, The Netherlands and Catalunya) > > SKYPE green.heart > > www.circlesquared.org > > youth and elders short video > > http://www.linkedin.com/in/erikvanlennep > > <><><><><><><><><><><><><><><> > > *Innovation Studio* > "we teach sustainability, creativity, effective communication and personal > management skills to aspiring entrepreneurs and leaders". > > ++++++++++++++++++++++++++++++ > > > *?You never change things by fighting the existing reality.To change > something, build a new model that makes the existing model obsolete.?* > > *? Richard Buckminster Fuller* > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:14:51 +1030 > From: Ceridwen Lloyd > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Help with Lilium Nanum > Message-ID: <7B830C65-BCDB-44EE-AB2F-9EE0DAA377C0@internode.on.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > I second that request - and does anyone have seed to sell? > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On 6 Nov 2014, at 5:52 pm, Seaton Ager wrote: >> >> Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for them to grow, I grow them in pots. >> >> many thanks Mel >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 12:48:09 +0000 > From: David Pilling > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Saffron Walden > Message-ID: <545B6E09.4020807@pilling.demon.co.uk> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Today many of the newspapers in the UK report the return of commercial > saffron growing in England, after a break of 200 years, to the town that > takes its name from the flower "Saffron Walden". > > Here's a link: > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/11212315/Putting-saffron-back-into-Saffron-Walden.html > > > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 08:49:56 -0500 > From: "Tim Eck" > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" > Subject: Re: [pbs] Saffron Walden > Message-ID: <001601cff9c8$8da80d10$a8f82730$@embarqmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Saffron grows very well in zone 6 USA. The only problem is voles which will > destroy (decimate is too mild a word) a patch in a few weeks. The secret > involves hardware cloth. It's also very easy to control weeds because the > summer dormancy allows mowing or herbiciding depending on your bent. > (Please don't rant about RoundUp - pure glyphosate is less toxic than table > salt). At my previous house I had about 100 square feet of saffron bed > which grew from a couple of pounds of bulbs a Pennsylvania Dutch friend > gave me. There was no real secret in Lancaster county - they double or > triple each year and need to be thinned every other year. > When I moved, I thought I'd give it a try without the hardware cloth and the > patch disappeared completely except for one or two that bloomed a couple of > years. I still have a few ounces of saffron lying around and giggle every > time I see the prices in stores. The PA Dutch also use 'American saffron' > which is the flower of safflower, a brilliantly yellow orange flowered > annual thistle reminiscent of holly. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of David Pilling > Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 7:48 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Saffron Walden > > Hi, > > Today many of the newspapers in the UK report the return of commercial > saffron growing in England, after a break of 200 years, to the town that > takes its name from the flower "Saffron Walden". > > Here's a link: > > http://www.telegraph.co.uk/earth/agriculture/farming/11212315/Putting-saffro > n-back-into-Saffron-Walden.html > > > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Thu, 06 Nov 2014 09:26:32 -0800 > From: Jane McGary > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Help with Lilium Nanum > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > I've grown Lilium nanum (in both cases the purple form) to flowering > twice but was not able to keep it going. This is a small-growing > Himalayan species whose habitat is described as "alpine scrub at > 4000-4250 meters." That tells you everything you need to know about > why this bulb is hard for us to grow (unless "we" live in the North > Atlantic rim countries -- I expect the Scots carpet their rock > gardens with it). Alpine bulbs, like other high alpines, have evolved > to survive a long winter dormancy under snow cover, where they are > fairly dry and the temperature is much milder than the air > temperature above the snow. If I get this bulb again, I'll try > overwintering it by drying it off but not completely, sealing the pot > in a plastic freezer bag, and keeping it in the refrigerator (not the > freezer) from November through April. I would use a soil mix of sand, > peat, and (with apologies to non-Northwesterners) lots of ground pumice. > > Jane McGary > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > 22 PM 11/5/2014, you wrote: >> Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is >> displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell >> me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with >> the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for >> them to grow, I grow them in pots. >> >> many thanks Mel > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 12:00:12 -0600 > From: Nhu Nguyen > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] PBS forum style and survey > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Hi all, > > We have discussion about this topic quite periodically on this forum and I > think anyone involving in a plant society will have been in discussion with > their society about dwindling members. The fact is, as Jane McGary one time > pointed out, "young" people now are too distracted and they are not settled > into a more stable economic life until they reach their late or early 40's. > So rather than trying to appeal to young people who would like to grow > plants but have to pay rent instead, the focus should be on people in their > 40's and 50's. I think that focus on the middle aged demographics as well > and reaching out to the younger ones should happen simultaneously. > > As it turns out, Facebook laments the fact that most of their users are no > longer young people. Younger people have moved on to other fast-paced even > more ephemeral nature of social media. I still think that the Facebook > model works well for spreading words about the PBS, but it does not allow > for deep discussion that could then be archived and retrieved later on. Try > searching for some growing advice by Jim Shields on Hippeastrum and you'd > go mad trying to navigate their search pages. > > The Board of Directors have always tried our best to reflect the current > wants of our membership. Sometimes it's not easy since we have to take into > account all demographics of the society. It sounds like there is a want for > a different style of forum, one that allows easy photo attachments. I think > it's time we take some action, but before we could implement anything, we'd > like to hear what YOU, the forum members think and what YOU have to say. If > we have enough interests, we can start the ball rolling. So, let the > discussion begin. > > Also, to help us gauge interest, I have created a short survey. Please help > us decide what is the best course of action. It will only take a minute and > will allow you to voice your thoughts on what you'd like your forum to be. > https://docs.google.com/forms/d/1MHh7Ab-T_pb2I7ybQq6B4b56LY5-Sauo770S30s_f_U/viewform > > Nhu > PBS President > >> On Wed, Nov 5, 2014 at 10:58 PM, T O wrote: >> >> My point in telling you all this is that I probably represent many of the >> "Millennial" generation by being so busy, thus not having the time or extra >> income to be a part of any of the great plant societies. I may even be one >> of few of my generation to have such an obsession with plants and growing >> species from seed. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:09:58 +1300 > From: Ina Crossley > To: "PBS >> Pacific Bulb Society" > Subject: [pbs] re joining Facebook > Message-ID: <545BC786.6090007@gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed > > There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show > yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like > me, it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts > of plant interests as well as other interests of course. > > I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, > anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older > people. > > If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I > regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check > your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done > that, just look for your interests. > > Ina > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 14:12:21 -0500 > From: Jude Haverington > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] re joining Facebook > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > And, it's another full time job! :) > > >> On Thu, Nov 6, 2014 at 2:09 PM, Ina Crossley wrote: >> >> There seems to be this idea that Facebook is just to socialise and show >> yourself off etc. Which for some it is. But for a lot of people, like me, >> it is for the groups on Facebook. Groups which cater for all sorts of >> plant interests as well as other interests of course. >> >> I read somewhere the ones who socialise go for Twitter or similar, >> anything new, and Facebook is increasingly being taken on board by older >> people. >> >> If you do consider joining FB, I would suggest you use a pseudonym. I >> regret I didn't. Don't give any information about yourself. And check >> your profile and untick anything which affects your privacy. Having done >> that, just look for your interests. >> >> Ina >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > ------------------------------ > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 2 > *********************************** From eez55@earthlink.net Fri, 07 Nov 2014 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <380-22014115745854765@earthlink.net> From: "Eugene Zielinski" Subject: Help with Lilium Nanum Date: Thu, 6 Nov 2014 21:58:54 -0700 If you can import seed, Bjørnar Olsen may have Lilium nanum seed to sell in a month or so. He's located in China and his website is trillium.no. He also has a Facebook page with the same name: Trillium.no. Eugene Zielinski Prescott Valley, AZ USA > [Original Message] > From: Ceridwen Lloyd > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Date: 11/7/2014 12:29:07 AM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Help with Lilium Nanum > > I second that request - and does anyone have seed to sell? > > Sent from my iPhone > > > On 6 Nov 2014, at 5:52 pm, Seaton Ager wrote: > > > > Hi Not sure if I am sending this to the correct email to have is displayed as I am new at this, but I hope someone out there can tell me the best way to grow Lilium Nanum, I have terrible trouble with the bulb rotting, what is the best mixture and best position for them to grow, I grow them in pots. > > > > many thanks Mel From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri, 07 Nov 2014 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1997765536.2007.1415343855372.JavaMail.www@wwinf1e24> From: Mark BROWN Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:04:15 +0100 (CET)   The link worked fine for me too. Mark _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 02:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <010c01cffa6e$cf7bb010$6e731030$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 04:40:03 -0500 Just googled them both - it's sativus. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Rodger Whitlock Sent: Thursday, November 06, 2014 3:28 PM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saffron Walden On 6 Nov 2014, at 8:49, Tim Eck wrote: > At my previous house I had about 100 square feet of saffron bed which > grew from a couple of pounds of bulbs a Pennsylvania Dutch friend gave me. That may have been Crocus nudiflorus, not C. sativus. I've read that Pennsylvania Dutch farmers often have a patch of it by the back steps. They urinate on it and thereby get fabulous growth. The stamens & anthers can be used as a condiment exactly like those of C. sativus can. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 07 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545CB77F.8010407@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:13:51 +0000 Hi, On 06/11/2014 13:49, Tim Eck wrote: > Saffron grows very well in zone 6 USA. I have not had much luck with saffron, I wondered if the lack of light so far North was the problem. Saffron Walden is 52 degrees North, that is North of the US Canada border - somewhere between Calgary and Edmonton. However the bulbs I bought this year did flower last week, which was interesting. From all this it is obvious my problems are my fault and not due to location. -- David Pilling, Blackpool, North West England. www.davidpilling.com From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 07 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545CB8E9.7090709@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: List problems Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:19:53 +0000 Hi, There was a short period of this list not working - between 6th November 2014 22:00 and 7th November 8:00 (GMT/UTC). Posts bounced back to the sender, so you'll have to repost. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 14:07:04 +0100 That doesn't say anything David The flowers where already in the corm when you bought them you have to wait one year to see the real results Maybe best to grow them as potatoes in a little row east west Plant them deep and on a hot spot Leaves will be over half a meter long in spring Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-07 13:13 GMT+01:00 David Pilling : > Hi, > > On 06/11/2014 13:49, Tim Eck wrote: > >> Saffron grows very well in zone 6 USA. >> > > > However the bulbs I bought this year did flower last week, which was > interesting. > > From all this it is obvious my problems are my fault and not due to > location. > > > > -- > David Pilling, Blackpool, North West England. > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From lthames@cableone.net Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: linda thames Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:16:49 -0600 Blanca, try right clicking on the link and see if that works. Also check to see if you have popups blocked. On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 1:04 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > > The link worked fine for me too. > Mark > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545CCCE0.8010704@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 13:45:04 +0000 Hi, Here's a simple URL for the form http://tinyurl.com/oy9obab -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545CCF4E.1080504@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 13:55:26 +0000 Hi, On 07/11/2014 13:07, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > That doesn't say anything David > The flowers where already in the corm when you bought them > you have to wait one year to see the real results Yes of course the real test of my efforts is if the new corms formed this Winter will be as big as the ones I bought or as floriferous. However, we've discussed saffron and the difficulty getting it to flower before. No one has been brave enough say what you just have - that the flowers are already in the corms. I have read suggestions that flowering depends on how the corms are treated when planted in Autumn. Someone told me that their corms flowered if left in the paper bag until they sprouted - that's what I did. What you are saying, is that flowering success is predetermined in the corms one buys and nothing one does post-purchase (in the first Fall) can change things. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 15:05:08 +0100 Crocus corms die after flowering (like tulips) and build completely new ones The flowering buts produce large corms The buts aside make non flowering corms If you plant them deep (15 cm but depends on the soil) they hardly produce small corms If you plant them shallow they make lots of non flowering size corms at the end you have hardly flowering size corms When harvested (in June after the leaves got dormant) best you give them 6 weeks 30ºC Then re-plant them on rows again Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-07 14:55 GMT+01:00 David Pilling : > Hi, > > On 07/11/2014 13:07, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > >> That doesn't say anything David >> The flowers where already in the corm when you bought them >> you have to wait one year to see the real results >> > > Yes of course the real test of my efforts is if the new corms formed this > Winter will be as big as the ones I bought or as floriferous. > > However, we've discussed saffron and the difficulty getting it to flower > before. No one has been brave enough say what you just have - that the > flowers are already in the corms. > > I have read suggestions that flowering depends on how the corms are > treated when planted in Autumn. Someone told me that their corms flowered > if left in the paper bag until they sprouted - that's what I did. > > What you are saying, is that flowering success is predetermined in the > corms one buys and nothing one does post-purchase (in the first Fall) can > change things. > > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:32:14 -0500 Hi gang Hopefully this time it'll work. I am trying to locate Xerophyta plants, if anyone can help, or point me in the right direction. I have had no luck with seeds, and can't seem to find plants. Anyone? Thanks! Jude From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <012c01cffa98$8e9adb00$abd09100$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:38:51 -0500 David, If you have voles or other critters that eat roots, I suggest you try one of these options: 1. Make a cage with the equivalent of 1/4" hardware cloth (i.e. galvanized wire mesh) that extends a half foot below grade and a half foot above grade with a hinged lid of hardware cloth. No openings larger than 1/4 " or slots larger than 1/8". 2. Plant your bed and roll out 1/2" hardware cloth over it, extending a foot past the bed in all directions and bury the edges. The flowers and foliage will grow through the hardware cloth and you only need to lift it every other summer when you thin them. 3. Make a somewhat larger cage as in 1. Using 1" or 2" hardware cloth that will securely enclose a cat. My experience may not validly extend to your situation, but the easy way to distinguish non-flowering bulbs from eaten bulbs would be the winter foliage. If they rapidly multiply but fail to flower, you have a completely different problem from me. Tim From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 09:50:04 -0500 Well - what happened to urinating on them ? I'm sure that worked! On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 9:38 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > David, > If you have voles or other critters that eat roots, I suggest you try one > of > these options: > > 1. Make a cage with the equivalent of 1/4" hardware cloth (i.e. galvanized > wire mesh) that extends a half foot below grade and a half foot above grade > with a hinged lid of hardware cloth. No openings larger than 1/4 " or > slots > larger than 1/8". > 2. Plant your bed and roll out 1/2" hardware cloth over it, extending a > foot > past the bed in all directions and bury the edges. The flowers and foliage > will grow through the hardware cloth and you only need to lift it every > other summer when you thin them. > 3. Make a somewhat larger cage as in 1. Using 1" or 2" hardware cloth that > will securely enclose a cat. > > My experience may not validly extend to your situation, but the easy way to > distinguish non-flowering bulbs from eaten bulbs would be the winter > foliage. If they rapidly multiply but fail to flower, you have a > completely > different problem from me. > Tim > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8D58CD95-D614-4BE9-9C37-787ABFAB9C68@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 08:52:32 -0600 Dear PBSers, The recent messages about saffron, Crocus sativus, have been a bit surprising considering the range of comments. Crocus corms are replaced each year. Blooming corms fade away after dormancy. New corms contain all the elements of the next year’s growth including flowers. This shouldn’t be a surprise, but maybe it needs to be restated. So any Crocus corms bought in the fall contain the bloom for next bloom season whether that fall or next spring. If you look closely it is really fairly difficult to confuse Crocus sativus with any other crocus species. The flowers are THAT distinct. Although other crocus and even other genera are given the common name of “Saffron”, the true saffron comes ONLY from C. sativus. Planting depth varies a lot from climate to climate. Same for multiplication/production of new corms. What really threw me was the statement that they can develop foliage up to .5 m in length. Really ? I have been growing Saffron for over a decade here in Kansas City, in the middle of the US in a fairly cold climate (Zone 5/6). My bulbs originally came from a commercial saffron farm in PA - maybe the same Lancaster County farm mentioned earlier. They have been undisturbed all this time and regularly produce plenty of saffron for our use. We harvest over 200 flowers this year alone. So I am sort of surprised at the range of comments here and lack of some actual experience in growing these common bulbs. Seems to be a number of communication problems. It would certainly help if each person who tells about their own actual bulbs tells us where in the world they are growing these things. Experience, climate and individual differences matter a lot. It helps to share specific experiences. Hopefully Jim W. On Nov 7, 2014, at 8:05 AM, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Crocus corms die after flowering (like tulips) and build completely new ones James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From sage4home@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sage Thompson Subject: Hymenocallis pygmaea Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:08:39 -0800 Hi all, My name is Sage and I am setting up a riparian style fish tank. It is 20 gallon and has 300 watt equivalent CFL about 24 inch above the tank. I want a Hymenocallis pygmaea for the center piece for this tank. It would be perfect as it is the smallest of the species. In my searches is have found nobody selling this and only two people talking about even growing it, they were both on this forum. I am hoping to find a plant, bulb or seed. Thanks, Sage. From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415374611.53252.BPMail_high_carrier@web120401.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Rick Buell via pbs Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:36:51 -0800 I became interested in saffron several years ago, and by some 'coincidence', came across a garden center close-out, '90% off saffron corms'. Of course I bought the entire gross. Here in zone 6b, they seem to do well,  even though I've been neglectful in not dividing them. My second-hand experience with moles, voles, etc. has been that they are burrowing primarily for grubs and earthworms, and the corms are just a tasty snack. If you use an insecticide for the grubs, then apply a strong tea of hot pepper, this should discourage burrowing vermin. (I would never kill earthworms....) The drawback of hot pepper tea is that it has to be applied every couple of days to be effective. On a side note, if you're battling squirrels or grazing animals, a few drops of a week-old solution of rotted egg (1 raw egg mixed in 3 liters water), also applied every 3 days, is highly effective and cheap! The solution doesn't off-gas, and is useable for at least 2 months. It has kept the squirrels out of my pots, and a few thin strips of paper dipped in this and hung on tree branches will send deer running. Applied in moderation, it shouldn't be detectable to humans. From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415375254.7077.YahooMailNeo@web126206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 07:47:34 -0800 I take exception to several aspects of Jim Waddick's post about saffron. He wrote " Crocus corms are replaced each year. Blooming corms fade away after dormancy. " By the time the new corms are entering dormancy the old corms are already gone, whatever goodness left in them having been absorbed into the new corms. Also "New corms contain all the elements of the next year’s growth including flowers. This shouldn’t be a surprise, but maybe it needs to be restated. So any Crocus corms bought in the fall contain the bloom for next bloom season whether that fall or next spring." This is misleading. Had it been written about a hyacinth, daffodil or tulip, it would have been true. But those flowers grow from true bulbs. Crocuses grow from corms. We've all probably seen those photos of tulip or hyacinth bulbs cut open to reveal the developing flowers. If you cut a corm in the same way, all you'll see is seemingly undifferentiated tissue. That's because a corm is a piece of condensed stem: it corresponds to what is sometimes called the basal plate of a true bulb. Waddick's statement that "New corms contain all the elements of the next year’s growth including flowers" is true only if by "elements" you include embryonic tissues. If you cut into the sprout emerging from a corm you are not likely to make out with the naked eye anything which looks like a flower unless you are cutting shortly before the plant comes into bloom. Waddick wrote "the true saffron comes ONLY from C. sativus." If you are talking about commercial saffron, this is probably true. It is widely believed that commercial saffron is a clone: i.e. millennia ago one seed germinated from which grew the plant we now call saffron. Over the centuries it has varied a bit, just as ancient wine grapes and garlics have, to produce slightly different forms. Commercial saffron, although it has a botanical name, is not a true species. Nowhere in the world does it exist as a sexually reproducing population. However, cultivated saffron had to come from somewhere, and while taxonomists have never agreed about precisely which true species saffron is derived, the point is that when true saffron arose there already existed about a half dozen true species of crocus which produce similar long, fragrant styles which can be used the way those of commercial saffron are. Furthermore, some of these other species grow in parts of the world where crocus corms are collected and consumed by humans. Surely people on the lookout for food in ancient times watched for the autumnal flowering of the crocuses to identify the sites where digging would likely produce good results. And anyone handling the blooms surely must have noticed the aroma and perhaps also that the color bleeds from wet styles. I'm postulating that for centuries people collected and used the styles of various crocuses of the saffron group long before the plant we know as saffron existed. Perhaps they even cultivated the plants after centuries of collection reduced wild populations. Eventually, somewhere, the plant we know as saffron appeared, maybe as a cultivated plant, maybe as a wild plant. Once that plant became widely cultivated, the need to collect wild plants ended. The saffron we use today is the only survivor of that ancient tradition, but it's certainly not the only one which produces "saffron". Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where most of the several species of the saffron group of crocuses I grow are finished for this year. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <015501cffaa2$c0b2c120$42184360$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:51:46 -0500 Jim, The friend who gave me the bulbs used method 1 in my prior email, while I (being much lazier) used method 2 and I only conjecture that method 3 would work to deter voles. Planting depth is mostly irrelevant as the new bulbs will adjust according to their own nature. I am in zone 6B in Lancaster county PA USA, but the ones I planted in State College PA (zone 5a) survived also. They grow exceptionally well here in soils in residuum of limestone but should grow well in other good soils. Although we don't have dry summers, they do seem to survive our intermittently soggy summers. I know I have lots of voles here as they are well represented in the random samplings of wildlife my cats present me with. I believe I have mostly pine voles as half my juvenile apple trees have keeled over. (they attack the roots and gobble up the roots on one side and the tree falls over in the next wind) My foliage only gets to a little over a foot (.3m-.35m) and it definitely weeps rather than standing erect as in most spring crocus. Tim -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 9:53 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Saffron So I am sort of surprised at the range of comments here and lack of some actual experience in growing these common bulbs. Seems to be a number of communication problems. It would certainly help if each person who tells about their own actual bulbs tells us where in the world they are growing these things. Experience, climate and individual differences matter a lot. From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <016a01cffaa4$05270ea0$0f752be0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:00:55 -0500 It's worth mentioning that moles are almost exclusively carnivorous while voles are almost exclusively vegetarian. AND, in spite of some claims, nothing other than the most crude measures (dynamite, etc) works to control both. Although some cats will kill moles, mine will not attack them (possibly because of the poisonous spurs). I have seen a mole nudge my cat aside to eat some dry catfood out of its bowl. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Rick Buell via pbs Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 10:37 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Saffron and pests I became interested in saffron several years ago, and by some 'coincidence', came across a garden center close-out, '90% off saffron corms'. Of course I bought the entire gross. Here in zone 6b, they seem to do well,  even though I've been neglectful in not dividing them. My second-hand experience with moles, voles, etc. has been that they are burrowing primarily for grubs and earthworms, and the corms are just a tasty snack. If you use an insecticide for the grubs, then apply a strong tea of hot pepper, this should discourage burrowing vermin. (I would never kill earthworms....) The drawback of hot pepper tea is that it has to be applied every couple of days to be effective. On a side note, if you're battling squirrels or grazing animals, a few drops of a week-old solution of rotted egg (1 raw egg mixed in 3 liters water), also applied every 3 days, is highly effective and cheap! The solution doesn't off-gas, and is useable for at least 2 months. It has kept the squirrels out of my pots, and a few thin strips of paper dipped in this and hung on tree branches will send deer running. Applied in moderation, it shouldn't be detectable to humans. From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <016d01cffaa5$eced5b80$c6c81280$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:14:33 -0500 I may not have expressed this correctly. What I meant to say is that if you have an infestation it is almost certainly one or the other and the first step is to figure out which. Bare paths after a persistent snow melts are certainly voles while raised sod tunnels are almost certainly moles. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Eck Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 11:01 AM To: 'Rick Buell'; 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Saffron and pests It's worth mentioning that moles are almost exclusively carnivorous while voles are almost exclusively vegetarian. AND, in spite of some claims, nothing other than the most crude measures (dynamite, etc) works to control both. Although some cats will kill moles, mine will not attack them (possibly because of the poisonous spurs). I have seen a mole nudge my cat aside to eat some dry catfood out of its bowl. From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <545D00CE.9030103@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:26:38 +0000 Hi, I don't have a predator problem. My small number of saffron corms are in pots in a secure greenhouse. My problem has been why commercially supplied large saffron corms don't flower in their first Autumn. I understand that the corm is replaced each year, so lack of success the second Autumn is my fault. You can see my photo (#4 of row #2) of the relationship of new and old crocus corms on this wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crocus There is another wiki page with a photo (#1) comparing the leaves of various species: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrocusCompared For me saffron leaves were a lot longer than for other species. -- David Pilling, Blackpool, North West England. www.davidpilling.com From penstemon@Q.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1437EFE9D49A4927A48A6DCCE17125DE@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 10:31:54 -0700 If you look closely it is really fairly difficult to confuse Crocus sativus with any other crocus species. The flowers are THAT distinct. Although other crocus and even other genera are given the common name of “Saffron”, the true saffron comes ONLY from C. sativus. Well, the style branches are longer, so you get more saffron per flower, which is probably why it wound up as a cultivated plant. Any of these will do for risotto alla milanese. http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/paridevita/media/autumn%20crocuses%202014/pallasii.jpg.html?sort=4&o=19 http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/paridevita/media/autumn%20crocuses%202014/hadriaticuspurpleheart.jpg.html?sort=4&o=8 http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/paridevita/media/autumn%20crocuses%202014/cartwrmarcel.jpg.html?sort=4&o=5 Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 07 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 10:28:23 -0800 Tim suggested using hardware cloth (galvanized wire mesh) to protect crocus corms from voles (field mice too). I also used aviary wire, which is like chicken wire with a smaller mesh size. However, for planting out in open beds, I prefer to use UV stabilized black PVC mesh "aquatic" pots, which do not rust in the ground or cause problems during digging in later years, and these are also easy to lift to get at the corms or bulbs. The best brand is Finofil, which has the mesh on the bottom as well as the sides; otherwise you have to poke holes in a solid base. I kept crocuses in sunken Finofil pots for many years in my former garden, which was loaded with voles and deer mice. Now, happily, I live in a suburb free of these pests, though now we have the eastern gray squirrel, which some idiot introduced to Portland, Oregon, years ago; it has driven out the native Douglas squirrel, which is smaller. So far the local gray squirrels have not figured out the underground food supplies I've added to the garden but I'm careful not to disturb the soil around, e.g., Cyclamen tubers. Voles get at bulbs, etc., from underground tunnels, but mice mostly dig in from the surface, in my experience. Voles will use mole tunnels and perhaps mice do too. I used wire mesh over my crocus pots in my former cold frames, but now rejoice in a "varmint-proof" Mediterranean house where the crocuses can grow in raised beds, not pots. Crocus tournefortii is presently decorating the bulb house, and I hope several of you got the corms and seed I donated to the BX. This is a large lavender crocus with the unusual quality of remaining open in dim weather and at night, and it's also fragrant. The leaves can reach 25 cm in length after flowering is finished. Mine have survived 17 degrees F with only overhead protection. Regarding saffron, my Mennonite neighbors at the former country place recognized saffron (not another crocus) in the garden and told me about growing it in Pennsylvania, and I shared some corms with them. Thanks to Roland for his detailed advice on growing it. I think my current failure with Crocus sativus is probably due to inadequate summer heating, and possibly also to the purchase of unhealthy corms; I did plant them deeply. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Fri, 07 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <545D14DB.7060502@t-online.de> From: Johannes Ulrich Urban Subject: Alocasia hypnosa Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:52:11 +0100 Dear All, 2 or 3 year ago I got a tuber of Alocasia hynosa (now correctly called Englerarum hypnosum) through the BX. It has grown and multiplied very well. As I do not remember who was the donor of the tubers for the BX, I would like to get in touch either through this forum or privately, I have some questions concerning the origins of this plant: did it come from a wild source? Where is it native? How hardy is it? Mine are pot grown and about to go dormant now under glass to protect them form too much rain and cold. Thank you in advance and bye for today, Uli From penstemon@Q.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:56:33 -0700 >Tim suggested using hardware cloth (galvanized wire mesh) to protect >crocus corms from voles (field mice too). Blood meal, sprinkled at the entrance to vole tunnels, is very effective. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado (Holder of the National Collection of rodents) From nickplummer@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nicholas plummer Subject: Hymenocallis pygmaea Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 14:04:39 -0500 Hi Sage, It looks as though Tony Avent has offered this species in the past. The Plant Delights website allows you to register interest in species that they no longer offer. Presumably, if enough people do so, Tony and his employees will propagate more of the plants for sale. http://www.plantdelights.com/Hymenocallis-pygmaea-for-sale/Buy-Dwarf-Spider-Lilies/ Will your tank be set up as a paludarium with shallow water? Judging by photos, H. pygmaea seems to grow as an emersed wetland plant, but will it survive permanently submersed? Nick On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 10:08 AM, Sage Thompson wrote: > Hi all, My name is Sage and I am setting up a riparian style fish tank. It > is 20 gallon and has 300 watt equivalent CFL about 24 inch above the tank. > I want a Hymenocallis pygmaea for the center piece for this tank. It would > be perfect as it is the smallest of the species. > > In my searches is have found nobody selling this and only two people > talking about even growing it, they were both on this forum. I am hoping > to find a plant, bulb or seed. > > Thanks, > > Sage. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 07 Nov 2014 12:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <1415389640.55110.YahooMailNeo@web161505.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Gordon Hogenson via pbs Subject: Help with Lilium nanum Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 11:47:20 -0800 Lilium nanum, and its variety flavidum regularly show up on rock garden society seed lists, such as NARGS or SRGC. It's well worth joining one of those societies if you're interested in them. You can browse past year's seed lists online. The seed exchanges happen in December and January. I've planted seeds once or twice, but have not brought any to flower. Mostly I am focused on growing the lower altitude Lilium, though, so I have not put much effort (yet) into L. nanum. NARGS https://www.nargs.org/ SRGC http://www.srgc.net/site/ Gordon From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1451540773.32109.1415395823182.JavaMail.www@wwinf1c15> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 22:30:23 +0100 (CET) Halleluja! Finally a remedy for deer! And voles. I will just have to stomach the smell of making this preparation! Saffron grows with absolutely no special treatment in the open garden here in northern Normandy. Be it close to the sea though. I just give it some general purpose organic fertiliser once a year. They have dwarf dahlias growing over them in summer. So they never get baked. The soil is just standard loamy soil. They have flowered prolifically for the last three years since planting. One or two popped-up white this year! I never had C. cartwrightianus 'Albus' so this may be an intersting variant or just some rogue bulbs of the latter that have just decided to flower this year? They are as big as sativus. Cartwrightianus 'Albus' is a bit smaller I find. Mark. "Here in zone 6b, they seem to do well,  even though I've been neglectful in not dividing them. > My second-hand experience with moles, voles, etc. has been that they are burrowing primarily for grubs and earthworms, and the corms are just a tasty snack. If you use an insecticide for the grubs, then apply a strong tea of hot pepper, this should discourage burrowing vermin. (I would never kill earthworms....) The drawback of hot pepper tea is that it has to be applied every couple of days to be effective. > > On a side note, if you're battling squirrels or grazing animals, a few drops of a week-old solution of rotted egg (1 raw egg mixed in 3 liters water), also applied every 3 days, is highly effective and cheap! The solution doesn't off-gas, and is useable for at least 2 months. It has kept the squirrels out of my pots, and a few thin strips of paper dipped in this and hung on tree branches will send deer running. Applied in moderation, it shouldn't be detectable to humans." _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <01cd01cffad7$4d93acb0$e8bb0610$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 17:08:02 -0500 In my experience growing American chestnuts, most deer repellents are only a relative solution, depending on replenishment rates, rainfall, and most importantly 'deer pressure' which equates to how hungry they are. I suspect the same is true for rodents - are they more annoyed or more hungry? I have found an 8-ft deer fence to require much less faith and religious fervor on my part to achieve satisfaction. (Surprisingly, white tailed deer can easily jump an 8 ft fence but only do so when being chased. When hungry they try to walk around it.) -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mark BROWN Sent: Friday, November 07, 2014 4:30 PM To: Rick Buell; Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Saffron and pests Halleluja! Finally a remedy for deer! And voles. From plantsman@comcast.net Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <20141107224929.B6D462137E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 14:49:12 -0800 The limiting factor in saffron production is that each flower only produces one pistil with a single branched style. Using plant biology's favorite model plant, Arabidopsis, genetically modified plants can already be produced with flowers consisting of any floral organ in place of any other floral organ. For example, Arabidopsis flowers with pistil tissue (including the style) in place of stamens, petals, and/or sepals. It's a relatively simple matter to find homologues of the same floral architectural genes in other plant species, including monocots. That was 20 years ago. Imagine a genetically modified Crocus sativus plant with flowers consisting of multiple pistils with a corresponding bundle of numerous orange styles (with or without the tepals, depending or whether tepals are still deemed necessary to protect the bundle of styles). Increasing the number of pistils per flower is one likely future of commercial saffron production. Nathan From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Saffron and pests Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 16:52:07 -0600 My remedy to grow saffron is to grow them on a hillside among over 500 daffodils. The deer, voles and mice avoid the area all year even in winter. When the Daffodils are blooming there is no sign of saffron and when Saffron is blooming, the weather has turned enough that the critters just avoid the entire area. Win win. Jim W. ps I can barely grow other crocus in the garden unless they are near daffodils or pretty isolated. On Nov 7, 2014, at 3:30 PM, Mark BROWN wrote: > Halleluja! > Finally a remedy for deer! And voles. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From blancawingate@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 17:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <545D64CD.9050009@gmail.com> From: Blanca Wingate Subject: PBS forum style and survey Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 16:33:17 -0800 Many thanks, David! That worked for me. Gratefully, Blanca From davbouch5@mac.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: David Boucher Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 07 Nov 2014 15:41:25 -1000 try the Cactus and Succulent Society. Seed exchange and advertisers for plants. David Boucher Hawaii On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:32 AM, Jude Haverington wrote: > Hi gang > Hopefully this time it'll work. > > I am trying to locate Xerophyta plants, if anyone can help, or point me in > the right direction. I have had no luck with seeds, and can't seem to find > plants. > > Anyone? > > Thanks! Jude > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 21:51:50 -0500 Thank you David, for the suggestion. Which one? The CSS of America does not show any exchange or advertisers. Just a list of available seeds (excluding Xerophyta.) Was there a specific one you are recommending? Thank you! On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 8:41 PM, David Boucher wrote: > try the Cactus and Succulent Society. Seed exchange and advertisers for > plants. > > David Boucher > Hawaii > > > > On Nov 7, 2014, at 4:32 AM, Jude Haverington > wrote: > > > Hi gang > > Hopefully this time it'll work. > > > > I am trying to locate Xerophyta plants, if anyone can help, or point me > in > > the right direction. I have had no luck with seeds, and can't seem to > find > > plants. > > > > Anyone? > > > > Thanks! Jude > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From penstemon@Q.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <7D84E078A7DE42EF926ECD679A17334E@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 20:07:01 -0700 Thank you David, for the suggestion. Which one? The CSS of America does not show any exchange or advertisers. Just a list of available seeds (excluding Xerophyta.) Was there a specific one you are recommending? If you're talking about species in the Velloziaceae, Silverhills Seed in South Africa is the place to go. I germinated seeds of X. viscosa just by sowing them under lights, years ago. Bob From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 07 Nov 2014 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1C9183BCE4412-EC0-D891@webmail-va082.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 22:07:15 -0500 Hi Jude, I've had good luck germinating Xerophyta seed from both Silverhill and Lifestyle seeds. Also there was some fresh seed offered a while back in one of the PBS offerings as well. The seed needs to be fresh or kept in a refrigerator soon after receipt if you aren't going to sow it right away. Surface sow in a well drained mix with minimal fertilizer, pumice and peat moss or perlite and seed starting mix with some peat moss to reduce the fertilizer content should work, the mix needs to be well drained. Seed benefits from being placed in zip lock bags and being put under lights for germination. Once the seedlings are growing well you can take them out of the bag, as they get larger they can be separated. When they are fairly large, they can spend the winter dry in a cool location in a desiccated state, they green up in spring when watered, but they can also be kept green through winter by watering them when needed. Hope this info helps, Ernie DeMarie NY where the frost hasn't hit yet but its coming this weekend or week for sure. Had to dig up the Bessera elegans in the garden even though they were blooming, to bring in, not much in the way of bulb blooms outdoors but plenty of Cape oxalis spp are blooming indoors. -----Original Message----- From: Jude Haverington To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Fri, Nov 7, 2014 9:32 am Subject: [pbs] Testing - Need Xerophyta Hi gang Hopefully this time it'll work. I am trying to locate Xerophyta plants, if anyone can help, or point me in the right direction. I have had no luck with seeds, and can't seem to find plants. Anyone? Thanks! Jude From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Testing - Need Xerophyta Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 22:20:58 -0500 Thank you very much everyone for the helpful information re: seeds. I'll pocket that for now. At this point, I'm really trying to find plants - if anyone has any leads - feel free to email me privately if you prefer. Thanks again! On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 10:07 PM, Ernie DeMarie via pbs < pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote: > > Hi Jude, > I've had good luck germinating Xerophyta seed from both Silverhill and > Lifestyle seeds. Also there was some fresh seed offered a while back in > one of the PBS offerings as well. The seed needs to be fresh or kept in a > refrigerator soon after receipt if you aren't going to sow it right away. > Surface sow in a well drained mix with minimal fertilizer, pumice and peat > moss or perlite and seed starting mix with some peat moss to reduce the > fertilizer content should work, the mix needs to be well drained. Seed > benefits from being placed in zip lock bags and being put under lights for > germination. Once the seedlings are growing well you can take them out of > the bag, as they get larger they can be separated. When they are fairly > large, they can spend the winter dry in a cool location in a desiccated > state, they green up in spring when watered, but they can also be kept > green through winter by watering them when needed. > Hope this info helps, > Ernie DeMarie > NY where the frost hasn't hit yet but its coming this weekend or week for > sure. Had to dig up the Bessera elegans in the garden even though they > were blooming, to bring in, not much in the way of bulb blooms outdoors but > plenty of Cape oxalis spp are blooming indoors. > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Jude Haverington > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Fri, Nov 7, 2014 9:32 am > Subject: [pbs] Testing - Need Xerophyta > > > Hi gang > Hopefully this time it'll work. > > I am trying to locate Xerophyta plants, if anyone can help, or point me in > the right direction. I have had no luck with seeds, and can't seem to find > plants. > > Anyone? > > Thanks! Jude > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 07 Nov 2014 21:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Saffron Date: Fri, 7 Nov 2014 20:30:38 -0800 In the fall of 2013 I bought a few bags of much discounted saffron corms, already well into growth, pretty much out of pity for the hopelessness of their situation and a tiny bit curious as well. Upon arriving home I promptly planted them at the edges of a raised bed which is irrigated with a soaker hose in the middle, which leaves the edges relatively dry in summer. Many herbaceous perennials and reseeding annuals share this bed throughout the year. The Crocus were planted immediately into the bed, which is entirely compost, with a few handfuls of sand. The leaves, which were well into growth already, continued growth through winter into spring to about 12" before drying up in summer. Due to the settling around the edges of the bed, some of the corms migrated to a shallower position, and did not flower, but instead became a cluster of tiny non-flowering corms. The ones which remained deep flowered well, twice each at an interval. Shen the leaves die down I will replant them all to deeper locations and see if there is a difference next fall. A quick read through the Wikipedia entry on Saffron yields some interesting facts. One is that Crocus sativus is a much selected clone of one of a few species or a hybrid of the species, selected for a long stigmas. The other fact is that it is pollen sterile, which could have happened from repeated inbreeding. Just a guess. This brings to my mind a perplexing question. Dutch growers often retire certain cultivars that cease to grow well once the clones acquire too many viruses (King Alfred). Is it really possible that a single saffron clone could go on for thousands of years without acquiring too many viruses, or even just succumbing to old age? Perhaps old age IS why they don't flower easily for everyone. It would be interesting to see the genetics mapped of Crocus sativus from different sources around the world. Sorry for the long rant, I'm just puzzled. -Travis Rogue River, OR From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 02:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Saffron Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:21:45 +0100 There was in Holland (over 20 years ago) a large clone grown for the bigger size corms By selecting every time the largest corms (not looking if they where rich flowering) One moment you needed to plant the size 10 cm circumstances to have one flower from a corm Luckily there are now more serious growers who grow the rich flowering clone again and is the hardly flowering clone (as far as I know) not grown any more So if you have flowering problems it can be that you have the old clone Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-08 5:30 GMT+01:00 T O : > In the fall of 2013 I bought a few bags of much discounted saffron corms, > already well into growth, pretty much out of pity for the hopelessness of > their situation and a tiny bit curious as well. Upon arriving home I > promptly planted them at the edges of a raised bed which is irrigated with > a soaker hose in the middle, which leaves the edges relatively dry in > summer. Many herbaceous perennials and reseeding annuals share this bed > throughout the year. > > The Crocus were planted immediately into the bed, which is entirely > compost, with a few handfuls of sand. The leaves, which were well into > growth already, continued growth through winter into spring to about 12" > before drying up in summer. Due to the settling around the edges of the > bed, some of the corms migrated to a shallower position, and did not > flower, but instead became a cluster of tiny non-flowering corms. The ones > which remained deep flowered well, twice each at an interval. Shen the > leaves die down I will replant them all to deeper locations and see if > there is a difference next fall. > > A quick read through the Wikipedia entry on Saffron yields some > interesting facts. One is that Crocus sativus is a much selected clone of > one of a few species or a hybrid of the species, selected for a long > stigmas. The other fact is that it is pollen sterile, which could have > happened from repeated inbreeding. Just a guess. > This brings to my mind a perplexing question. Dutch growers often retire > certain cultivars that cease to grow well once the clones acquire too many > viruses (King Alfred). Is it really possible that a single saffron clone > could go on for thousands of years without acquiring too many viruses, or > even just succumbing to old age? Perhaps old age IS why they don't flower > easily for everyone. > It would be interesting to see the genetics mapped of Crocus sativus from > different sources around the world. > > Sorry for the long rant, I'm just puzzled. > > -Travis > Rogue River, OR > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From teck11@embarqmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 05:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <024b01cffb4e$8e541650$aafc42f0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Saffron Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:21:41 -0500 "This brings to my mind a perplexing question. Dutch growers often retire certain cultivars that cease to grow well once the clones acquire too many viruses (King Alfred). Is it really possible that a single saffron clone could go on for thousands of years without acquiring too many viruses, or even just succumbing to old age? Perhaps old age IS why they don't flower easily for everyone. It would be interesting to see the genetics mapped of Crocus sativus from different sources around the world." Travis I don't have any specific answers but it is important to realize that viruses are an important part of evolution in that they allow for lateral gene transfer (they have another name for it now). What we see as viral infections are mostly exogenous viruses that are not co-adapted to that species. In that context a clone could easily survive in its region of origin without infection as long as the dispersion always radiated outward from the origin. And just as a hospital is the perfect breeding ground for drug resistant pathogens, collectors and breeders are probably the best proliferators of pernicious plant viruses. Which reminds me, I recently bought "The Oldest Living Things in the World" after seeing it reviewed in 'Science'. Seems like a book of great interest to this crowd. If it's older than 2000 years, it's in the book. http://www.amazon.com/The-Oldest-Living-Things-World/dp/022605750X Tim From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 07:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: List problems Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:02:16 -0500 Thank you for straightening this out for us! Much appreciated. Jude On Fri, Nov 7, 2014 at 7:19 AM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > There was a short period of this list not working - between 6th November > 2014 22:00 and 7th November 8:00 (GMT/UTC). > > Posts bounced back to the sender, so you'll have to repost. > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 08:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1415462293.10613.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:58:13 -0800 Dear All,       The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends to be shared. If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at mailto:ds429@frontier.com   Include "BX 372" in the subject line.         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to ; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added.     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website:         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: Dell Sherk 55 W. High St. Salem, WV 26426 USA Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds.             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! From Monica Swartz: 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into the pot." 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x mortfontanensis)? From Mary Sue Ittner: 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? From Rimmer de Vries: 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one From Jyl Tuck: 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense From Francisco Lopez: 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos caudatum?) 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? From Giovanni Curci: 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora From Jim Waddick: Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for long term and rarely bloom in pots.     20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat ‘spidery' in form and around 30 in tall. 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <20141108162027.AD1CC20F94@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: #9 in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 08:20:17 -0800 #9 is Ferraria crispa ssp. nortieri From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <0A822B62-3280-4045-B963-8929B963C830@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:30:57 -0600 Friends, I should have noted that BOTH # 20 & 21 are totally hardy in Zone 5/6. Both get up to 30 in tall in bloom. Plant immediately in rich soil, cover lightly and water well. Should germinate in spring. Best of Luck Jim James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From keshabcp@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Keshab C. Pradhan" Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 22:24:16 +0530 Hi Dell, BX 373 Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > > Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > mortfontanensis)? > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415471769.78454.YahooMailBasic@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 10:36:09 -0800 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 11/8/14, Keshab C. Pradhan wrote: Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Saturday, November 8, 2014, 11:54 AM Hi Dell, BX 373 Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > Dear All, > >       The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > >         Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > >     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > >         If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > >             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > mortfontanensis)? > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1C99BA0F8B413-A30-1357F@webmail-vm146.sysops.aol.com> From: Celeste via pbs Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:47:49 -0500 I didn't order anything. :) -----Original Message----- From: ds429 To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 8, 2014 11:36 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 11/8/14, Keshab C. Pradhan wrote: Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Saturday, November 8, 2014, 11:54 AM Hi Dell, BX 373 Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > > Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > mortfontanensis)? > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415473484.98658.YahooMailBasic@web163103.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 11:04:44 -0800 Wow, that's confusing. And I just removed your address from the list of individual email notifications since you do not appear on the latest membership list that I have (11/1). If you want to be a member or think that you still are, contact Jane McGary Hard as it may be to believe, we do make mistakes, now and then. ;<()() Dell -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 11/8/14, Celeste via pbs wrote: Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Date: Saturday, November 8, 2014, 1:47 PM I didn't order anything.  :) -----Original Message----- From: ds429 To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Sat, Nov 8, 2014 11:36 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 I have received your order. Best wishes, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX -------------------------------------------- On Sat, 11/8/14, Keshab C. Pradhan wrote: Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Saturday, November 8, 2014, 11:54 AM Hi Dell, BX 373 Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > Dear All, > >        The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > >          Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > >     Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > >          If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > >             I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > mortfontanensis)? > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From totototo@telus.net Sat, 08 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545DF9D9.4732.D83F@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Saffron Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 11:09:13 -0800 On 7 Nov 2014, at 20:30, T O wrote: > This brings to my mind a perplexing question. Dutch growers often retire > certain cultivars that cease to grow well once the clones acquire too many > viruses (King Alfred). Is it really possible that a single saffron clone > could go on for thousands of years without acquiring too many viruses, or > even just succumbing to old age? The "Giant Yellow" crocus, a hybrid between two yellow species that I forget the identities of, is still one of the strongest growing crocuses, though it's hundreds of years old. Going a little further afield, dahlia 'Bishop of Llandaff" is over a century old and still thriving. At least some monocots appear to be immune or resistant to virus-induced loss of vigor, so why not the saffron crocus? I have no idea what mechanism lies behind this apparent immortality. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From robin@no1bird.net Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <545E713F.4080502@no1bird.net> From: Robin Carrier Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:38:39 -0500 hope that wasn't for me On 11/8/2014 1:36 PM, ds429 wrote: > I have received your order. > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > -------------------------------------------- > On Sat, 11/8/14, Keshab C. Pradhan wrote: > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Saturday, November 8, 2014, 11:54 AM > > Hi Dell, > BX 373 > Request for # 19,20 > & 21.Thanks. > Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 > PM, ds429 > wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > > The items listed below have been donated by > our members and friends > > to be > shared. > > > > If you are > interested in obtaining some of them, please email me > PRIVATELY > > at > > > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > > > Include "BX > 372" in the subject line. > > > > > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you > would like; do not > > specify quantities. > It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > > too, in case I do not already have it. > Availability is based on a first > > come, > first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you > will find, > > included with them, a > statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, > check, or Pay Pal to < > > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; > no money orders, please) you should send the > > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging > charges are added. > > > > Many of you are > subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society > which has a yearly membership > > charge. > THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific > Bulb > > Society. If you are not a member, > consider joining so that you can take > > > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: > < > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > > > > If you would like to donate seeds or > bulbs/corms to the > > PBS,(Donors will > receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for > their > > donations.), please send CLEAN, > clearly labeled plant materials to: > > > > Dell Sherk > > 55 W. High > St. > > Salem, WV 26426 > > USA > > > > Non US donors should contact Dell for > instructions before sending seeds. > > > > I WILL REPLY > TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN > !! > > > > > > > > From Monica > Swartz: > > > > 1. Bulbs > of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > > 2. Bulbs > of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > > > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos > Rare Bulbs > > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia > mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > > > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid > Lands > > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. > Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > > the following: "from seed collected > in November, 2006 from a plant growing > > > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters > from the high > > waterline. This plant had > gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. > Seedlings grew strongly through last > > > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go > deeply into > > the pot." > > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy > and common house plant (A. x > > > mortfontanensis)? > > > > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > > > From Rimmer de > Vries: > > > > 10. Small > bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > > 11. Bulb > of Eucharis sp? , only one > > 12. Bulb of > Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > > > From Jyl Tuck: > > > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > > > From Francisco > Lopez: > > > > 14. Bulbils > of Lilium lancifolium > > 15. Small bulbs > of Allium roseum > > 16. Small bulbs of > Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > > caudatum?) > > 17. Small > corms of Watsonia sp? > > > > From Giovanni Curci: > > > > 18. Small bulbs of > Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa > viridiflora > > > > From > Jim Waddick: > > > > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT > suited to > > Mediterranean or South > eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. > Plant seeds immediately on > > receipt as > they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots > for > > long term and rarely bloom in > pots. > > > > 20. Seeds of > Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated > parents > > with this name, but it > hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in > color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > > and around 30 in tall. > > > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- > These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from > white to gold and may have some > > pink > tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, > Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > > > Best wishes, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 5 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 12:43:33 -0700 Rick wrote: > On a side note, if you're battling squirrels or grazing animals, a few drops of a week-old solution of rotted egg (1 raw egg mixed in 3 liters water), also applied every 3 days, is highly effective and cheap! The solution doesn't off-gas, and is useable for at least 2 months. How can one tell when it goes bad? Leo Martin stnalPsoeL@gmail.com Phoenix Arizona USA From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Vole doormats Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 12:58:24 -0700 Bob Nold wrote, regarding critter management: > Blood meal, sprinkled at the > entrance to vole tunnels, is very > effective. It is also effective in attracting digging canines. I once prepared a bed for sweet peas by digging a 3 foot (~ 1 meter) deep trench, about 30 feet long. I placed blood meal and bone meal on the bottom, backfilled, planted my sweet pea seeds and soaked the bed thoroughly. Returning from work the next day, I found three very dirty dogs and a completely-excavated trench. At least I knew my watering method was adequate to reach all the way to the bottom. Leo Martin stnalPsoeL@gmail.com Phoenix Arizona USA From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: PBS BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:09:41 -0700 Hello Dell, If available, I'd like 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 8 9 10 13 19 Please send to me at Leo Martin 4441 E McDowell Rd #101 Phoenix AZ 85008 Thank you. > Message: 9 > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 07:58:13 -0800 > From: ds429 > To: pbs > Subject: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 > Message-ID: > <1415462293.10613.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 > > Dear All, > > ? ? ? The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > ? > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > > ? ? ? ? Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > > ? ? Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > ? ? ? ? If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > ? ? ? ? ? ? I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > >From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x mortfontanensis)? > > >From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > >From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > >From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > >From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > >From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > >From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for long term and rarely bloom in pots. > ??? > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat ?spidery' in form and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <32C2EA32D115407C9F86AE7B20ED0997@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Vole doormats Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:15:43 -0700 It is also effective in attracting digging canines. Requires highly-evolved canines, with no interest in digging. Border collies, for instance. I had one, though, who loathed the idea of rodents running around his garden, and dispatched them with efficiency. "Plantskydd", made from the same stuff, is odorless, though. Bob From thorney4@dodo.com.au Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: thorney4 Subject: BX 372 Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 06:41:01 +1000 Hello Dell I would be interested in #3 Thank you Lee Lee Thorneycroft 141-145 Bamboo Drive Cedar Vale 4285 Queensland Australia Sent from Samsung tablet -------- Original message -------- From: "Keshab C. Pradhan" Date:09/11/2014 2:54 AM (GMT+10:00) To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Hi Dell, BX 373 Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > Dear All, > > The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > to be shared. > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY > at > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will find, > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > > Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for their > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > Dell Sherk > 55 W. High St. > Salem, WV 26426 > USA > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR ORDER. > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant growing > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through last > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > the pot." > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > mortfontanensis)? > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > From Jyl Tuck: > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > From Francisco Lopez: > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) (Lonocornelos > caudatum?) > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > From Giovanni Curci: > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > From Jim Waddick: > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into Zone > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated parents > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in form > and around 30 in tall. > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > Best wishes, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: BX 372 Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:47:31 -0500 Wow - everybody must like sharing their requests with the list :) On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 3:41 PM, thorney4 wrote: > Hello Dell > > I would be interested in > #3 > Thank you Lee > > Lee Thorneycroft > 141-145 Bamboo Drive > Cedar Vale 4285 > Queensland > Australia > > > Sent from Samsung tablet > > -------- Original message -------- > From: "Keshab C. Pradhan" > Date:09/11/2014 2:54 AM (GMT+10:00) > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 > > Hi Dell, > BX 373 > Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. > Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: > > > Dear All, > > > > The items listed below have been donated by our members and friends > > to be shared. > > > > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me > PRIVATELY > > at > > > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > > > Include "BX 372" in the subject line. > > > > > > Specify the NUMBERS of the items which you would like; do not > > specify quantities. It is a good idea to include your snail mail address, > > too, in case I do not already have it. Availability is based on a first > > come, first served system. When you receive your seeds/bulbs you will > find, > > included with them, a statement of how much money (usually $2.00/share of > > seeds or $3 - $5/share of bulbs)(cash, check, or Pay Pal to < > > pbs.treasury@verizon.net>; no money orders, please) you should send the > > PBS treasurer. Postage and packaging charges are added. > > > > Many of you are subscribers to this pbs elist which is free, but are > > not members of the Pacific Bulb Society which has a yearly membership > > charge. THIS BX OFFERING IS AVAILABLE ONLY TO MEMBERS of the Pacific Bulb > > Society. If you are not a member, consider joining so that you can take > > advantage of future offers such as this. Go to our website: < > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/> > > > > If you would like to donate seeds or bulbs/corms to the > > PBS,(Donors will receive credit on the BX for the cost of postage for > their > > donations.), please send CLEAN, clearly labeled plant materials to: > > > > Dell Sherk > > 55 W. High St. > > Salem, WV 26426 > > USA > > > > Non US donors should contact Dell for instructions before sending seeds. > > > > I WILL REPLY TO YOU WITHIN 24 HRS OF MY RECEIPT OF YOUR > ORDER. > > IF YOU DO NOT HEAR FROM ME, TRY AGAIN !! > > > > > > > > From Monica Swartz: > > > > 1. Bulbs of Gladiolus tristis ex bx 219 > > 2. Bulbs of Moraea tripetala ex Telos Rare Bulbs > > 3. Seed of Brunsvigia bosmaniae from Telos bulbs > > 4. Bulbs of Lachenalia unifolia ex Telos Rare Bulbs > > 5. Bulbs of Lachenalia mutabilis electric blue form ex bx 181 > > 6. Bulbs of Albuca aff. flaccida from a volunteer from Arid Lands > > 7. Bulbs of Albuca sp. Plettenberg Bay ex BX 178 ex Roy Herold who wrote > > the following: "from seed collected in November, 2006 from a plant > growing > > in pure sand at the edge of the beach, perhaps 50 meters from the high > > waterline. This plant had gone dormant, and only the scape and seed pods > > remained, approximately 20-30cm high. Seedlings grew strongly through > last > > summer and winter, and went dormant in May, stretching to go deeply into > > the pot." > > 8. Tubers of Alocasia x amazonica an easy and common house plant (A. x > > mortfontanensis)? > > > > From Mary Sue Ittner: > > > > 9. Corms of Ferraria sp? > > > > From Rimmer de Vries: > > > > 10. Small bulbs of Oxalis obtusa, pink > > 11. Bulb of Eucharis sp? , only one > > 12. Bulb of Pancratium zeylanicum, only one > > > > From Jyl Tuck: > > > > 13. Small tubers of Arisaema amurense > > > > From Francisco Lopez: > > > > 14. Bulbils of Lilium lancifolium > > 15. Small bulbs of Allium roseum > > 16. Small bulbs of Ornithogalum caudatum (Albuca bracteata?) > (Lonocornelos > > caudatum?) > > 17. Small corms of Watsonia sp? > > > > From Giovanni Curci: > > > > 18. Small bulbs of Clinanthus incarnatus, yellow form (VERY FEW) > > 19. Small bulbs of Phaedranassa viridiflora > > > > From Jim Waddick: > > > > Lycoris seeds These are both Spring foliage species NOT suited to > > Mediterranean or South eastern climates. Do best north of zone 7 into > Zone > > 4 and 5. NOT recommended for Southern CA. Plant seeds immediately on > > receipt as they do not have a long shelf life. They do poorly in pots for > > long term and rarely bloom in pots. > > > > 20. Seeds of Lycoris chinensis These seed are from fairly isolated > parents > > with this name, but it hybridizes readily with other fertile species. > > Expect flowers that are yellow to gold in color, somewhat 'spidery' in > form > > and around 30 in tall. > > > > 21. Lycoris hybrids- These are a mix of L. chinensis and L. longituba. > > Flowers will be smooth or spidery, from white to gold and may have some > > pink tints. Easy and hardy in Zone 5/6. > > > > Thank you, Monica, Mary Sue, Rimmer, Jyl, Francisco, Giovanni, and Jim !! > > > > Best wishes, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From hornig@oswego.edu Sat, 08 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:05:36 -0500 Do they need winter cold to germinate? How cold? Ellen On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 11:30 AM, James Waddick wrote: > Friends, > > I should have noted that BOTH # 20 & 21 are totally hardy in Zone > 5/6. Both get up to 30 in tall in bloom. > > Plant immediately in rich soil, cover lightly and water well. > Should germinate in spring. Best of Luck Jim > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <545E8882.8030300@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 21:17:54 +0000 Hi On 08/11/2014 15:58, ds429 wrote: > If you are interested in obtaining some of them, please email me PRIVATELY at > mailto:ds429@frontier.com As Dell says every time, if you want things from the BX email him... PRIVATELY! That means create a new email, don't just hit reply. A private email increases your chances of success and stops the world seeing how unreasonable your demands are. Anything that goes to the list is on public view for the foreseeable future. 8-) -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <8E19C9E8-1561-4518-AE97-17A988DDE72A@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:18:52 -0600 Dear PBS and Ellen, Good Question. Don’t know. I’ve tried a few in pots indoors over winter and haven’t followed through enough to say if it is better or worse. They come from ‘Continental’ climates and should do fine outdoors in your MA area without a problem. I do know they develop faster in the ground than in pots. Best Jim W. ps Curious…are L. squamigera common around there? On Nov 8, 2014, at 3:05 PM, Ellen Hornig wrote: > Do they need winter cold to germinate? How cold? > James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From jshields46074@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: James SHIELDS Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:19:36 -0500 Ellen, Outdoors-cold in Indiana. Leaving them laying around on the surface of the flower bed over winter also works. Jim Shields On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 4:05 PM, Ellen Hornig wrote: > Do they need winter cold to germinate? How cold? > > Ellen > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 11:30 AM, James Waddick wrote: > > > Friends, > > > > I should have noted that BOTH # 20 & 21 are totally hardy in Zone > > 5/6. Both get up to 30 in tall in bloom. > > > > Plant immediately in rich soil, cover lightly and water well. > > Should germinate in spring. Best of Luck Jim > > > > James Waddick > > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > > USA > > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > Ellen Hornig > 212 Grafton St > Shrewsbury MA 01545 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com P.O. Box 92 Westfield, IN 46074 U.S.A. From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <545E8B02.10701@t-online.de> From: Johannes Ulrich Urban Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:28:34 +0100 Dear All, Again... the same topic, maybe off-topic. Recently I find an increase of copies of copies of copies in the forum, it is hard to detect where the new message is hidden... Why is is so difficult to avoid this? Why do BX-orders go to the forum? Sincerely Uli From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <1415482305.30378.YahooMailNeo@web126205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:31:45 -0800 ________________________________ I've only germinated three species - Lycoris sanguinea, L. sprengeri and L. longituba - but in my experience they germinated like garden forms of Paeonia lactiflora, i.e. right away if sown as soon as collected and erratically after that under local outdoor conditions. Here any seedlings are very vulnerable to bulb fly larvae. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From hornig@oswego.edu Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Lycoris in current BX (372) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:45:18 -0500 Thanks, Jim x3 (Waddick, Shields, McKenney - what are the chances?) for your excellent advice about sowing lycoris seed. I just hope I got my request in to Dell on time. Jim W., in answer to your question, I haven't seen a lot of Lycoris squamigera around here. I've planted a few clumps and am hoping that eventually they get well-established, but I have to say they aren't looking too good. Bulb fly is always a possibility - I know my Sternbergia lutea numbers are diminishing on account of those. I haven't dug any lycoris to check. On the upside, Nerine bowdenii continues to do pretty well here, in a protected location fairly near the foundation. 'Nikita', which is an ethereal pale pink, is the first to bloom, therefore the most successful; but a white form and a vigorous typical screaming pink are also doing fine. Last night's light freeze doesn't seem to have harmed the flowers; 'Nikita' is in glorious full bloom. Next summer I may move them in even closer, if for no other reason than that I'm likelier to throw something over the flowers on cold nights. My impression is that the bulbs themselves are quite hardy. Ellen From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 14:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 13:55:48 -0800 > Why do BX-orders go to the forum? The PBS list sends emails out "on behalf of" the sender. This seems proper enough, but it has a major drawback (though for a good reason). The drawback is that though emails arrive as being from the human sender, "Leo Martin" for example, the reply-to address, is not that human sender, it is instead the PBS list. In my email client (hotmail) and many others, this means that emails I get from Leo via the PBS look just like the emails I might get if Leo emailed me directly. But replies to the PBS list messages don't reply to Leo. The good reason for this "behalf of" setup is to make group conversation the default - this is a public forum after all - so it's easy to see why the list is set this way initially. Perhaps Mr. Pilling can inform us if this is a setting that could be changed and we could consider whether the the default should instead be personal replies rather than reply-to-the-list... -| From: Steven Subject: BX 372 Replies !!! Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:07:31 +1000 I must admit, getting peoples private messages is an added burden.. If only people would read the BX instructions properly & send their replies to the private address provided for BX responses, as they are requested to, instead of hitting the reply button & sending their messages to all of us.. ...Treats 4 Dogs... On 09/11/2014, at 6:47 AM, Jude Haverington wrote: > Wow - everybody must like sharing their requests with the list :) > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 3:41 PM, thorney4 wrote: > >> Hello Dell >> >> I would be interested in >> #3 >> Thank you Lee >> >> Lee Thorneycroft >> 141-145 Bamboo Drive >> Cedar Vale 4285 >> Queensland >> Australia >> >> >> Sent from Samsung tablet >> >> -------- Original message -------- >> From: "Keshab C. Pradhan" >> Date:09/11/2014 2:54 AM (GMT+10:00) >> To: Pacific Bulb Society >> Subject: Re: [pbs] Pacific Bulb Society BX 372 >> >> Hi Dell, >> BX 373 >> Request for # 19,20 & 21.Thanks. >> Keshab Pradhan(Sikkim) >> >> On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 9:28 PM, ds429 wrote: >> >>> From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 08:16:22 +1000 Hello, the repeated messages is because people forget or don't bother to edit & remove part of the previous messages, which we are all asked to do.. The BX messages that come to all of us on the list, instead of privately to Dell, is the people who haven't read the BX instructions properly & just press the reply button, instead of using Dells private email address which is contained I'n the BX instructions... It seems lots of people haven't read the BX instructions properly.. It's quite a burden for many of us to continually receive peoples private BX messages.. ...Treats 4 Dogs... On 09/11/2014, at 7:28 AM, Johannes Ulrich Urban wrote: > Dear All, > > Again... the same topic, maybe off-topic. Recently I find an increase of copies of copies of copies in the forum, it is hard to detect where the new message is hidden... > Why is is so difficult to avoid this? Why do BX-orders go to the forum? > > > Sincerely > > Uli > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From bulborum@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 23:20:42 +0100 Solution is easy Don't send seeds to those who post in the forum Sure they don't make the second time that "mistake" Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > The BX messages that come to all of us on the list, instead of privately > to Dell, is the people who haven't read the BX instructions properly & just > press the reply button, instead of using Dells private email address which > is contained I'n the BX instructions... > > It seems lots of people haven't read the BX instructions properly.. It's > quite a burden for many of us to continually receive peoples private BX > messages.. > > > > From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat, 08 Nov 2014 15:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <545EA06C.8080509@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:59:56 +0000 Hi, On 08/11/2014 21:55, Kipp McMichael wrote: >> Why do BX-orders go to the forum? > The PBS list sends emails out "on behalf of" the sender. > This seems proper enough, but it has a major drawback. > > The good reason for this "behalf of" setup is to make group conversation the default - > this is a public forum after all - so it's easy to see why the list is set this way initially. > Perhaps Mr. Pilling can inform us if this is a setting that could be changed Yes we can change it. Good suggestion. I belong to another mail list where the effect of reply is variable. I occasionally have spent a lot of time composing a reply for public reading and found it going to one (lucky) person. The people who argue for making the change Kipp suggests say that email programs have separate options "reply to sender", "reply to list". Mine does and I make use of it. Not everyone will have the choice or understand it. As ever if there's support for change we can change. To be clear, at the moment reply means reply to the list. The proposal is to change so that reply would reply to the individual sender of the message. To post to the list would require a conscious decision. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <344544.46262.bm@smtp228.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Subject: repetitive messages = how dare you dial a wrong number? Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 23:10:40 +0000 In the old days, one could simply hang up. Nowadays, I find that deleting unwanted email messages is about as easy as hanging up, though it exercises different muscles. Some of you, who are really lucky or really important, receive bunches of emails each day. I think you might want to figure out how to manage that burden at home. Dell Sent from Windows Mail From: David Pilling Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎8‎, ‎2014 ‎5‎:‎59‎ ‎PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Hi, On 08/11/2014 21:55, Kipp McMichael wrote: >> Why do BX-orders go to the forum? > The PBS list sends emails out "on behalf of" the sender. > This seems proper enough, but it has a major drawback. > > The good reason for this "behalf of" setup is to make group conversation the default - > this is a public forum after all - so it's easy to see why the list is set this way initially. > Perhaps Mr. Pilling can inform us if this is a setting that could be changed Yes we can change it. Good suggestion. I belong to another mail list where the effect of reply is variable. I occasionally have spent a lot of time composing a reply for public reading and found it going to one (lucky) person. The people who argue for making the change Kipp suggests say that email programs have separate options "reply to sender", "reply to list". Mine does and I make use of it. Not everyone will have the choice or understand it. As ever if there's support for change we can change. To be clear, at the moment reply means reply to the list. The proposal is to change so that reply would reply to the individual sender of the message. To post to the list would require a conscious decision. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sat, 08 Nov 2014 16:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <1415488950.85696.YahooMailNeo@web126203.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 15:22:30 -0800 I thought I would stay out of this one, but since a change from "reply to list" to "reply to sender" is at issue, I want to make a strong plea that no such change be made. One change I would like to see is that list participants exercise more discipline about including information about their location in their signature. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From voltaire@islandnet.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Don/Diane Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:07:13 -0800 I agree with Jim, wholeheartedly. We used to have an active Medit-Plants list. Then it was switched so Reply went to the sender, not the list. It all but died. Questions would be posted but we'd seldom see an answer, and there wouldn't be the former back and forth of discussion that had been so enjoyable. The most recent messages were three in July. Diane Whitehead On 2014-11-08, at 3:22 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > a change from "reply to list" to "reply to sender" is at issue, I want to make a strong plea that no such change be made. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:43:27 -0800 Greetings, This baby with the bathwater concern is certainly valid... accidental to-list replies are sometimes the impetus for great conversation. I am not so distressed by "extra" messages on the list, so I'm happy to see reply-to-list remain the default. I don't think, however, there is one best solution for all lists/groups. -| From: voltaire@islandnet.com > Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 16:07:13 -0800 > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > I agree with Jim, wholeheartedly. > > We used to have an active Medit-Plants list. Then it was switched so Reply went to the sender, not the list. It all but died. Questions would be posted but we'd seldom see an answer, and there wouldn't be the former back and forth of discussion that had been so enjoyable. The most recent messages were three in July. > > Diane Whitehead > > > On 2014-11-08, at 3:22 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > > > a change from "reply to list" to "reply to sender" is at issue, I want to make a strong plea that no such change be made. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 08 Nov 2014 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <81DAF6E9-573F-458D-B2AB-D3DA7936233B@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 20:13:38 -0500 In post #17 from November Nhu ask us to fill out of survey. I hope these comments were submitted in your survey! Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From xerantheum@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: survey (was: repetitive messages) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 19:20:26 -0600 Hi Ken and all, Thanks to everyone who took the time to fill out the survey, many with thoughtful suggestions. The responses were definitely helpful to help us figure out the wants of the current list subscribers and members. The electronics media team for the PBS is going through the suggestions and I think based on the survey, some action will need to be taken. What that is I cannot say at the moment but stay tuned. Nhu On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kenneth wrote: > In post #17 from November Nhu ask us to fill out of survey. I hope these > comments were submitted in your survey! > From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: survey (was: repetitive messages) Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 20:22:55 -0500 Hopefully allowing us to post pictures via email is one of those changes… That's one big thing lacking in this forum, in my humble opinion. On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 8:20 PM, Nhu Nguyen wrote: > Hi Ken and all, > > Thanks to everyone who took the time to fill out the survey, many with > thoughtful suggestions. The responses were definitely helpful to help us > figure out the wants of the current list subscribers and members. The > electronics media team for the PBS is going through the suggestions and I > think based on the survey, some action will need to be taken. What that is > I cannot say at the moment but stay tuned. > > Nhu > > On Sat, Nov 8, 2014 at 7:13 PM, Kenneth wrote: > > > In post #17 from November Nhu ask us to fill out of survey. I hope these > > comments were submitted in your survey! > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From nickplummer@gmail.com Sat, 08 Nov 2014 19:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nicholas plummer Subject: Amorphophallus paeoniifolius 'Thailand Giant' Date: Sat, 8 Nov 2014 21:29:26 -0500 After unpotting my Amorphophallus paeoniifolius 'Thailand Giant' for winter storage, I have a few extra offset tubers--too few to send to the BX and perhaps too large, though still very small for an Amorphophallus. This is a vigorous form and very easy to manage, despite its size. It grows well in a large tub outdoors during the summer, and the tuber sits dry on a shelf in winter. So...If anyone is dying to grow an Amorphophallus that may eventually reach nine feet tall, I'd be interested in trading the extras. I'm most interested in South American amaryllids, particularly Hippeastrum species. Small seedlings or offsets are fine. Email me off list if interested in a trade. Regards, Nick Plummer Durham, NC, USA. Zone 7 From erik@tepuidesign.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 02:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erik Van Lennep Subject: Change and conscious decisions Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 10:47:01 +0100 Please, yes. Let's make that change. Now would be good :) Thanks! Erik van Lennep > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Sat, 08 Nov 2014 22:59:56 +0000 > From: David Pilling > > > > "....Yes we can change it. Good suggestion...... > > >.....As ever if there's support for change we can change...." > > > From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 04:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 21:30:29 +1000 Haha... I love it, that's a practical answer Roland : ),, On 9 November 2014 08:20, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > Solution is easy > Don't send seeds to those who post in the forum > Sure they don't make the second time that "mistake" > > Roland > > R de Boer > 2238 Route de la Maugardiere > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ > > Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > > > > > The BX messages that come to all of us on the list, instead of privately > > to Dell, is the people who haven't read the BX instructions properly & > just > > press the reply button, instead of using Dells private email address > which > > is contained I'n the BX instructions... > > > > It seems lots of people haven't read the BX instructions properly.. It's > > quite a burden for many of us to continually receive peoples private BX > > messages.. > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From ramato2210@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 05:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: romain amato Subject: Eriospermum mackenii Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:10:10 +0100 Hello, I've bought this year 2 bulbs of Eriospermum mackenii from 2 different european sellers. One was leafing and the other not, and today the situation is unchanged. I can't find if this species is a summer or a winter growing one... could you help me please? Best regards Romain Paris, France From pcamusa@hotmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 07:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: "P. C. Andrews" Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:31:50 -0500 Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: "Dear All, PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions below).........." It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are quick draws on the Reply button. Regards, Phil Andrews Ann Arbor, MI Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. From kellso@irvincentral.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545F935C.2070400@irvincentral.com> From: Kelly Irvin Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:16:28 -0600 In line with Phil's suggestion... This is a test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain text... Make this the first line of the message and the last (and more strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com Dell, with a minor bit of work on your part, you can make it even more user friendly by propagating the subject... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### A subject with underscores for spaces is a little rough, but has the necessary identifiers for your own records management. This would mean you would have to *change to the proper number* in the propagated subject line with every new offer. The subject cannot have any spaces in it, hence the underscores. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA Home Phone: 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > "Dear All, > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions below).........." From neumannmaesgen@gmx.de Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <545F9C62.3000400@gmx.de> From: =?ISO-8859-15?Q?=22J=2EM=E4sgen=22?= Subject: Eriospermum mackenii Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:54:58 +0100 Eriospermum mackenii is summer growing. It has a wide distribution in Afrika and is quite variable. Michael Neumann -- Jutta Mäsgen Michael Neumann Bendenweg 24 53347 Alfter 0228/2803186 From jshields46074@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: James SHIELDS Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:57:00 -0500 Dear all, I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the rest of us. Jim Shields On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > "Dear All, > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > below).........." > > It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are > quick draws on the Reply button. > > Regards, > Phil Andrews > Ann Arbor, MI > Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't > finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com P.O. Box 92 Westfield, IN 46074 U.S.A. From ds429@frontier.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415552765.5027.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: BX 372 CLOSED Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:06:05 -0800 Packages should go out in a week. Enjoy, Dell Dell Sherk, PBS BX From nickplummer@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nicholas Plummer Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:07:40 -0500 Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent out, but c'est la vie. Nick Sent from my iPhone On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS wrote: > Dear all, > > I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will > lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times > in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > rest of us. > From avbeek1@hotmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:58:31 +0100 My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the relay of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx and sx offerings only to paying members. > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" wrote: > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent out, but c'est la vie. > > Nick > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS wrote: >> >> Dear all, >> >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the >> rest of us. > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:05:28 -0500 All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? Simple - follow directions. Done. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek wrote: > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the relay > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx and > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > wrote: > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > Nick > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > will > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > times > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > >> rest of us. > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 09 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <13001940.4032533.1415570911401.JavaMail.root@vznit170116> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:08:31 -0600 (CST) I agree Jude. Lets not punish everyone for others missteps. Arnold On 11/09/14, Jude Haverington wrote: All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? Simple - follow directions. Done. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek wrote: > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the relay > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx and > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > wrote: > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > Nick > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > will > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > times > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > >> rest of us. > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From ds429@frontier.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415571317.47584.YahooMailBasic@web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: ds429 Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:15:17 -0800 Thanks Kelly. I'll try that the next time. Dell -------------------------------------------- On Sun, 11/9/14, Kelly Irvin wrote: Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages To: "Pacific Bulb Society" Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 11:16 AM In line with Phil's suggestion... This is a test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain text... Make this the first line of the message and the last (and more strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com Dell, with a minor bit of work on your part, you can make it even more user friendly by propagating the subject... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### A subject with underscores for spaces is a little rough, but has the necessary identifiers for your own records management. This would mean you would have to *change to the proper number* in the propagated subject line with every new offer. The subject cannot have any spaces in it, hence the underscores. -- Mr. Kelly M. Irvin 10850 Hodge Ln Gravette, AR 72736 USA Home Phone: 479-787-9958 USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > "Dear All, > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions below).........." _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: repetitive messages Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:19:47 -0700 All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? I agree. I'm getting a lot of repetitive messages about repetitive messages. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado snowdrops in flower From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:28:30 -0700 They're amazingly tolerant of dessication while waiting to be sold at the garden center (or someplace even less hospitable) aren't they? I bought 15 different rhizomes that looked just awful for a pittance, and every one is growing. Leo Martin Phoenix Arizona USA On Nov 9, 2014 3:23 PM, wrote: > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: repetitive messages (P. C. Andrews) > 2. Re: repetitive messages (James SHIELDS) > 3. Re: Eriospermum mackenii (J.M?sgen) > 4. Re: repetitive messages (Kelly Irvin) > 5. BX 372 CLOSED (ds429) > 6. Re: repetitive messages (Nicholas Plummer) > 7. Re: repetitive messages (Aad van Beek) > 8. Re: repetitive messages (Jude Haverington) > 9. Re: repetitive messages (arnold140@verizon.net) > 10. Re: repetitive messages (penstemon) > 11. Re: repetitive messages (ds429) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:31:50 -0500 > From: "P. C. Andrews" > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > "Dear All, > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > below).........." > > It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are > quick draws on the Reply button. > > Regards, > Phil Andrews > Ann Arbor, MI > Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't > finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:57:00 -0500 > From: James SHIELDS > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > AWhciikDG0b6aT-uYwmFDM9+SYA@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > Dear all, > > I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will > lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times > in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > rest of us. > > Jim Shields > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > > > "Dear All, > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > > below).........." > > > > It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are > > quick draws on the Reply button. > > > > Regards, > > Phil Andrews > > Ann Arbor, MI > > Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't > > finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com > P.O. Box 92 > Westfield, IN 46074 > U.S.A. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:54:58 +0100 > From: "J.M?sgen" > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eriospermum mackenii > Message-ID: <545F9C62.3000400@gmx.de> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > Eriospermum mackenii is summer growing. It has a wide distribution in > Afrika and is quite variable. > > Michael Neumann > > -- > Jutta M?sgen > Michael Neumann > Bendenweg 24 > 53347 Alfter > 0228/2803186 > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:16:28 -0600 > From: Kelly Irvin > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: <545F935C.2070400@irvincentral.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > In line with Phil's suggestion... > > This is a test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain text... > > Make this the first line of the message and the last (and more > strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Dell, with a minor bit of work on your part, you can make it even more > user friendly by propagating the subject... > > WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> > mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### > > A subject with underscores for spaces is a little rough, but has the > necessary identifiers for your own records management. This would mean > you would have to *change to the proper number* in the propagated > subject line with every new offer. The subject cannot have any spaces > in it, hence the underscores. > > -- > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > > Home Phone: 479-787-9958 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin > > On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > > > "Dear All, > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > below).........." > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:06:05 -0800 > From: ds429 > To: pbs > Subject: [pbs] BX 372 CLOSED > Message-ID: > <1415552765.5027.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Packages should go out in a week. > > Enjoy, > Dell > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:07:40 -0500 > From: Nicholas Plummer > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to digest > mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It may mean > that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent out, but > c'est la vie. > > Nick > > Sent from my iPhone > > On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will > > lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times > > in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > > from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > > rest of us. > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:58:31 +0100 > From: Aad van Beek > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the relay > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx and > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > wrote: > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > Nick > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > wrote: > >> > >> Dear all, > >> > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > will > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > times > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > >> rest of us. > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:05:28 -0500 > From: Jude Haverington > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > < > CAPH75tDZZmf5NEa-tDYHuLOjKPbSz6Jdmi5an_qEM28hfRf8GQ@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > Simple - follow directions. Done. > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek wrote: > > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the > relay > > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx > and > > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > > wrote: > > > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > > will > > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > > times > > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > messages > > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for > the > > >> rest of us. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:08:31 -0600 (CST) > From: arnold140@verizon.net > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: <13001940.4032533.1415570911401.JavaMail.root@vznit170116> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > I agree Jude. > > Lets not punish everyone for others missteps. > > Arnold > > > On 11/09/14, Jude Haverington wrote: > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > Simple - follow directions. Done. > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek wrote: > > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the > relay > > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx > and > > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > > wrote: > > > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > > will > > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > > times > > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > messages > > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > > >> rest of us. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:19:47 -0700 > From: "penstemon" > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > reply-type=original > > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > > I agree. I'm getting a lot of repetitive messages about repetitive > messages. > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado > > > snowdrops in flower > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:15:17 -0800 > From: ds429 > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > <1415571317.47584.YahooMailBasic@web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > Thanks Kelly. I'll try that the next time. > > Dell > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/9/14, Kelly Irvin wrote: > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 11:16 AM > > In line with Phil's > suggestion... > > This is a > test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain > text... > > Make this the first > line of the message and the last (and more > strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN > REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > CLICK HERE ---> > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Dell, with a minor bit of work > on your part, you can make it even more > user friendly by propagating the subject... > > WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > CLICK HERE ---> > mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### > > A subject with underscores for > spaces is a little rough, but has the > necessary identifiers for your own records > management. This would mean > you would have > to *change to the proper number* in the propagated > subject line with every new offer. The subject > cannot have any spaces > in it, hence the > underscores. > > -- > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge > Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > > Home Phone: 479-787-9958 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone > 6a/b > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin > > On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with > something like: > > > > > "Dear All, > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY > DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > below).........." > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > ------------------------------ > > Subject: Digest Footer > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > ------------------------------ > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 12 > ************************************ > From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:31:18 -0500 I do this too - can't go wrong - My latest one is a pink - which I hadn't seen before - it is called Beverly Sills, and is a rebloomer. I look forward to getting blooms next year. On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Leo Martin wrote: > They're amazingly tolerant of dessication while waiting to be sold at the > garden center (or someplace even less hospitable) aren't they? I bought 15 > different rhizomes that looked just awful for a pittance, and every one is > growing. > > Leo Martin > Phoenix Arizona USA > On Nov 9, 2014 3:23 PM, wrote: > > > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > You can reach the person managing the list at > > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > Today's Topics: > > > > 1. Re: repetitive messages (P. C. Andrews) > > 2. Re: repetitive messages (James SHIELDS) > > 3. Re: Eriospermum mackenii (J.M?sgen) > > 4. Re: repetitive messages (Kelly Irvin) > > 5. BX 372 CLOSED (ds429) > > 6. Re: repetitive messages (Nicholas Plummer) > > 7. Re: repetitive messages (Aad van Beek) > > 8. Re: repetitive messages (Jude Haverington) > > 9. Re: repetitive messages (arnold140@verizon.net) > > 10. Re: repetitive messages (penstemon) > > 11. Re: repetitive messages (ds429) > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > Message: 1 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:31:50 -0500 > > From: "P. C. Andrews" > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > > > "Dear All, > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > > below).........." > > > > It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are > > quick draws on the Reply button. > > > > Regards, > > Phil Andrews > > Ann Arbor, MI > > Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't > > finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 2 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:57:00 -0500 > > From: James SHIELDS > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > > AWhciikDG0b6aT-uYwmFDM9+SYA@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > Dear all, > > > > I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will > > lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times > > in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages > > from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > > rest of us. > > > > Jim Shields > > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:31 AM, P. C. Andrews > wrote: > > > > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > > > > > "Dear All, > > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > > > below).........." > > > > > > It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are > > > quick draws on the Reply button. > > > > > > Regards, > > > Phil Andrews > > > Ann Arbor, MI > > > Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't > > > finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > > > -- > > James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com > > P.O. Box 92 > > Westfield, IN 46074 > > U.S.A. > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 3 > > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:54:58 +0100 > > From: "J.M?sgen" > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Eriospermum mackenii > > Message-ID: <545F9C62.3000400@gmx.de> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed > > > > Eriospermum mackenii is summer growing. It has a wide distribution in > > Afrika and is quite variable. > > > > Michael Neumann > > > > -- > > Jutta M?sgen > > Michael Neumann > > Bendenweg 24 > > 53347 Alfter > > 0228/2803186 > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 4 > > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:16:28 -0600 > > From: Kelly Irvin > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: <545F935C.2070400@irvincentral.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > > > In line with Phil's suggestion... > > > > This is a test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain text... > > > > Make this the first line of the message and the last (and more > > strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > > CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > > > Dell, with a minor bit of work on your part, you can make it even more > > user friendly by propagating the subject... > > > > WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### > > > > A subject with underscores for spaces is a little rough, but has the > > necessary identifiers for your own records management. This would mean > > you would have to *change to the proper number* in the propagated > > subject line with every new offer. The subject cannot have any spaces > > in it, hence the underscores. > > > > -- > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > > 10850 Hodge Ln > > Gravette, AR 72736 > > USA > > > > Home Phone: 479-787-9958 > > > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin > > > > On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: > > > > > > "Dear All, > > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > > below).........." > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 5 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:06:05 -0800 > > From: ds429 > > To: pbs > > Subject: [pbs] BX 372 CLOSED > > Message-ID: > > <1415552765.5027.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Packages should go out in a week. > > > > Enjoy, > > Dell > > > > Dell Sherk, PBS BX > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 6 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:07:40 -0500 > > From: Nicholas Plummer > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to digest > > mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It may > mean > > that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent out, but > > c'est la vie. > > > > Nick > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > wrote: > > > > > Dear all, > > > > > > I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > will > > > lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > times > > > in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > messages > > > from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the > > > rest of us. > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 7 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:58:31 +0100 > > From: Aad van Beek > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the > > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the > relay > > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs > > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx > and > > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > > wrote: > > > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > wrote: > > >> > > >> Dear all, > > >> > > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > > will > > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > > times > > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > messages > > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for > the > > >> rest of us. > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 8 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:05:28 -0500 > > From: Jude Haverington > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > < > > CAPH75tDZZmf5NEa-tDYHuLOjKPbSz6Jdmi5an_qEM28hfRf8GQ@mail.gmail.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > > > Simple - follow directions. Done. > > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek > wrote: > > > > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of > the > > > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the > > relay > > > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to > pbs > > > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx > > and > > > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > > > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > > > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. > It > > > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > > > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear all, > > > >> > > > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > > > will > > > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > > > times > > > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > > messages > > > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for > > the > > > >> rest of us. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 9 > > Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:08:31 -0600 (CST) > > From: arnold140@verizon.net > > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: <13001940.4032533.1415570911401.JavaMail.root@vznit170116> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 > > > > I agree Jude. > > > > Lets not punish everyone for others missteps. > > > > Arnold > > > > > > On 11/09/14, Jude Haverington wrote: > > > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > > > Simple - follow directions. Done. > > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek > wrote: > > > > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of > the > > > items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the > > relay > > > of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to > pbs > > > list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx > > and > > > sx offerings only to paying members. > > > > > > > On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" > > > wrote: > > > > > > > > Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to > > > digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It > > > may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent > > > out, but c'est la vie. > > > > > > > > Nick > > > > > > > > Sent from my iPhone > > > > > > > >> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS > > > > wrote: > > > >> > > > >> Dear all, > > > >> > > > >> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" > > > will > > > >> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few > > > times > > > >> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the > > messages > > > >> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for > the > > > >> rest of us. > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > > pbs mailing list > > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 10 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:19:47 -0700 > > From: "penstemon" > > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; > > reply-type=original > > > > > > All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? > > > > > > I agree. I'm getting a lot of repetitive messages about repetitive > > messages. > > > > Bob Nold > > Denver, Colorado > > > > > > snowdrops in flower > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Message: 11 > > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:15:17 -0800 > > From: ds429 > > To: Pacific Bulb Society > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > Message-ID: > > <1415571317.47584.YahooMailBasic@web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> > > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii > > > > Thanks Kelly. I'll try that the next time. > > > > Dell > > -------------------------------------------- > > On Sun, 11/9/14, Kelly Irvin wrote: > > > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 11:16 AM > > > > In line with Phil's > > suggestion... > > > > This is a > > test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain > > text... > > > > Make this the first > > line of the message and the last (and more > > strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN > > REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > > CLICK HERE ---> > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > > > Dell, with a minor bit of work > > on your part, you can make it even more > > user friendly by propagating the subject... > > > > WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > > CLICK HERE ---> > > mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### > > > > A subject with underscores for > > spaces is a little rough, but has the > > necessary identifiers for your own records > > management. This would mean > > you would have > > to *change to the proper number* in the propagated > > subject line with every new offer. The subject > > cannot have any spaces > > in it, hence the > > underscores. > > > > -- > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > > 10850 Hodge > > Ln > > Gravette, AR 72736 > > USA > > > > Home Phone: 479-787-9958 > > > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone > > 6a/b > > > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin > > > > On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: > > > Perhaps start the PBX emails with > > something like: > > > > > > > > "Dear All, > > > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY > > DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > > below).........." > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > Subject: Digest Footer > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 12 > > ************************************ > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bob.hoel@comcast.net Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Robert Hoel Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 12 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 16:31:38 -0600 I like this idea. It seems that the problem really get aggravated with the BX and SX messages. Is it possible to have those messages go out from another listserv address then the response would only go to Dell and Steve. Bob Hoel 630-240-0219 (cell) Better on a bike than in a box! On Nov 9, 2014, at 4:22 PM, pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org wrote: > Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:58:31 +0100 > From: Aad van Beek > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > Message-ID: > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the relay of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx and sx offerings only to paying members. From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415572616.85874.YahooMailNeo@web186101.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: x Amarygia parkeri alba Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:36:56 +0000 I have a very neglected pot of x amarygia parkeri alba at present with what appears to be a flower shoot an inch or so tall amongst the short growing leaves. Currently I have it in an unheated greenhouse. Would it be better encouraged by the frost free section with say 7 C minimum or left where it is? It will get more actual sunlight in the colder section at this time of year because of the greenhouse position. The flower shoot appears to be devoid of any chlorophyll at present but presumably will green up eventually.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, UK, zone ~8 ish From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Non-quoted message Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:45:33 -0700 I don't know why my bearded iris message quoted the entire digest. I thought I began with a new message rather than a reply-to. I'll try hard not to do that again. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415573293.94136.YahooMailNeo@web186103.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:48:13 +0000 I have had a "remontant" (repeat flowering) iris in flower for several weeks here (UK) although the first frost 2 days ago seems to have stopped it at last. Amazing how long these last at this time of year. Forget the name but it is a ghostly white flushed blue. Don't recall seeing many of this type of iris here before. A warmer less changeable climate might suit them better. When is the best time to propagate them?   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, UK, zone ~8ish From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: repetitive messages Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 10:53:18 +1000 I think this is a great solution too :) ...Treats 4 Dogs... On 10/11/2014, at 8:15 AM, ds429 wrote: > Thanks Kelly. I'll try that the next time. > > Dell > -------------------------------------------- > On Sun, 11/9/14, Kelly Irvin wrote: > > Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" > Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 11:16 AM > > In line with Phil's > suggestion... > > This is a > test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain > text... > > Make this the first > line of the message and the last (and more > strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN > REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > CLICK HERE ---> > mailto:ds429@frontier.com > > Dell, with a minor bit of work > on your part, you can make it even more > user friendly by propagating the subject... > > WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, > CLICK HERE ---> > mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### > > A subject with underscores for > spaces is a little rough, but has the > necessary identifiers for your own records > management. This would mean > you would have > to *change to the proper number* in the propagated > subject line with every new offer. The subject > cannot have any spaces > in it, hence the > underscores. > > -- > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge > Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > > Home Phone: 479-787-9958 > > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone > 6a/b > > Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin > > On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: >> Perhaps start the PBX emails with > something like: >> >> > "Dear All, >> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY > DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions > below).........." > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From vc2m@mac.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <888E6F75-5718-42F8-B5B8-D233AA63014F@mac.com> From: VIJAY CHANDHOK Subject: Saffron Walden Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:05:03 -0500 There is not problem Crocus sativus producing blooms in areas were the conditions are right, in Kashmir valley it is grown on a plateau were it is always very dry even when it rains the surface dries off fairly. The field are covered in flowers as far as you can see. Vijay On Nov 7, 2014, at 12:26 PM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > I don't have a predator problem. My small number of saffron corms are in pots in a secure greenhouse. > > My problem has been why commercially supplied large saffron corms don't flower in their first Autumn. > > I understand that the corm is replaced each year, so lack of success the second Autumn is my fault. > > You can see my photo (#4 of row #2) of the relationship of new and old crocus corms on this wiki page: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Crocus > > There is another wiki page with a photo (#1) comparing the leaves of various species: > > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/CrocusCompared > > For me saffron leaves were a lot longer than for other species. > > > -- > David Pilling, Blackpool, North West England. > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sun, 09 Nov 2014 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <546013F1.7040308@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:25:05 -0500 Beverly Sills (the bearded iris hybrid) is outstanding, and here in Delaware by the marshlands, a strong and reliable performer. On 11/9/2014 5:31 PM, Jude Haverington wrote: > I do this too - can't go wrong - My latest one is a pink - which I hadn't > seen before - it is called Beverly Sills, and is a rebloomer. I look > forward to getting blooms next year. > > > On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 5:28 PM, Leo Martin wrote: > >> They're amazingly tolerant of dessication while waiting to be sold at the >> garden center (or someplace even less hospitable) aren't they? I bought 15 >> different rhizomes that looked just awful for a pittance, and every one is >> growing. >> >> Leo Martin >> Phoenix Arizona USA >> On Nov 9, 2014 3:23 PM, wrote: >> >>> Send pbs mailing list submissions to >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to >>> pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> You can reach the person managing the list at >>> pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org >>> >>> When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific >>> than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." >>> >>> >>> List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> >>> Today's Topics: >>> >>> 1. Re: repetitive messages (P. C. Andrews) >>> 2. Re: repetitive messages (James SHIELDS) >>> 3. Re: Eriospermum mackenii (J.M?sgen) >>> 4. Re: repetitive messages (Kelly Irvin) >>> 5. BX 372 CLOSED (ds429) >>> 6. Re: repetitive messages (Nicholas Plummer) >>> 7. Re: repetitive messages (Aad van Beek) >>> 8. Re: repetitive messages (Jude Haverington) >>> 9. Re: repetitive messages (arnold140@verizon.net) >>> 10. Re: repetitive messages (penstemon) >>> 11. Re: repetitive messages (ds429) >>> >>> >>> ---------------------------------------------------------------------- >>> >>> Message: 1 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:31:50 -0500 >>> From: "P. C. Andrews" >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" >>> >>> Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: >>> >>> "Dear All, >>> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions >>> below).........." >>> >>> It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are >>> quick draws on the Reply button. >>> >>> Regards, >>> Phil Andrews >>> Ann Arbor, MI >>> Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't >>> finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 2 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 11:57:00 -0500 >>> From: James SHIELDS >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> >> AWhciikDG0b6aT-uYwmFDM9+SYA@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>> >>> Dear all, >>> >>> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" will >>> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few times >>> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the messages >>> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the >>> rest of us. >>> >>> Jim Shields >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 9:31 AM, P. C. Andrews >> wrote: >>> >>>> Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: >>>> >>>> "Dear All, >>>> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions >>>> below).........." >>>> >>>> It won't completely solve the issue but will remind those of us who are >>>> quick draws on the Reply button. >>>> >>>> Regards, >>>> Phil Andrews >>>> Ann Arbor, MI >>>> Where it was slushy snow and rain yesterday...... and I still haven't >>>> finished prepping all the flower beds for winter. >>>> >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> >>> >>> >>> >>> -- >>> James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com >>> P.O. Box 92 >>> Westfield, IN 46074 >>> U.S.A. >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 3 >>> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 17:54:58 +0100 >>> From: "J.M?sgen" >>> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] Eriospermum mackenii >>> Message-ID: <545F9C62.3000400@gmx.de> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-15; format=flowed >>> >>> Eriospermum mackenii is summer growing. It has a wide distribution in >>> Afrika and is quite variable. >>> >>> Michael Neumann >>> >>> -- >>> Jutta M?sgen >>> Michael Neumann >>> Bendenweg 24 >>> 53347 Alfter >>> 0228/2803186 >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 4 >>> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 10:16:28 -0600 >>> From: Kelly Irvin >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: <545F935C.2070400@irvincentral.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed >>> >>> In line with Phil's suggestion... >>> >>> This is a test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain text... >>> >>> Make this the first line of the message and the last (and more >>> strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, >>> CLICK HERE ---> mailto:ds429@frontier.com >>> >>> Dell, with a minor bit of work on your part, you can make it even more >>> user friendly by propagating the subject... >>> >>> WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, CLICK HERE ---> >>> mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### >>> >>> A subject with underscores for spaces is a little rough, but has the >>> necessary identifiers for your own records management. This would mean >>> you would have to *change to the proper number* in the propagated >>> subject line with every new offer. The subject cannot have any spaces >>> in it, hence the underscores. >>> >>> -- >>> Mr. Kelly M. Irvin >>> 10850 Hodge Ln >>> Gravette, AR 72736 >>> USA >>> >>> Home Phone: 479-787-9958 >>> >>> USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b >>> >>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin >>> >>> On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: >>>> Perhaps start the PBX emails with something like: >>>> >>>> "Dear All, >>>> PLEASE DO NOT REPLY DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions >>> below).........." >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 5 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 09:06:05 -0800 >>> From: ds429 >>> To: pbs >>> Subject: [pbs] BX 372 CLOSED >>> Message-ID: >>> <1415552765.5027.YahooMailBasic@web163105.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Packages should go out in a week. >>> >>> Enjoy, >>> Dell >>> >>> Dell Sherk, PBS BX >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 6 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 12:07:40 -0500 >>> From: Nicholas Plummer >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to digest >>> mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It may >> mean >>> that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent out, but >>> c'est la vie. >>> >>> Nick >>> >>> Sent from my iPhone >>> >>> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS >>> wrote: >>> >>>> Dear all, >>>> >>>> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" >> will >>>> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few >> times >>>> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the >> messages >>>> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for the >>>> rest of us. >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 7 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 22:58:31 +0100 >>> From: Aad van Beek >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" >>> >>> My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of the >>> items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the >> relay >>> of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to pbs >>> list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx >> and >>> sx offerings only to paying members. >>> >>>> On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" >>> wrote: >>>> >>>> Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to >>> digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It >>> may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent >>> out, but c'est la vie. >>>> >>>> Nick >>>> >>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>> >>>>> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS >>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Dear all, >>>>> >>>>> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" >>> will >>>>> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few >>> times >>>>> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the >> messages >>>>> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for >> the >>>>> rest of us. >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 8 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 17:05:28 -0500 >>> From: Jude Haverington >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> < >>> CAPH75tDZZmf5NEa-tDYHuLOjKPbSz6Jdmi5an_qEM28hfRf8GQ@mail.gmail.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>> >>> All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? >>> >>> Simple - follow directions. Done. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek >> wrote: >>> >>>> My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of >> the >>>> items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the >>> relay >>>> of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to >> pbs >>>> list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx >>> and >>>> sx offerings only to paying members. >>>> >>>>> On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to >>>> digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. >> It >>>> may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent >>>> out, but c'est la vie. >>>>> >>>>> Nick >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS >> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" >>>> will >>>>>> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few >>>> times >>>>>> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the >>> messages >>>>>> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for >>> the >>>>>> rest of us. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 9 >>> Date: Sun, 09 Nov 2014 16:08:31 -0600 (CST) >>> From: arnold140@verizon.net >>> To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: <13001940.4032533.1415570911401.JavaMail.root@vznit170116> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 >>> >>> I agree Jude. >>> >>> Lets not punish everyone for others missteps. >>> >>> Arnold >>> >>> >>> On 11/09/14, Jude Haverington wrote: >>> >>> All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? >>> >>> Simple - follow directions. Done. >>> >>> On Sun, Nov 9, 2014 at 4:58 PM, Aad van Beek >> wrote: >>> >>>> My suggestion would be to split it in two. A email with a summary of >> the >>>> items of the bx or sx without the ordering part etcetera send via the >>> relay >>>> of the pacific bulb society email address for everybody subscribed to >> pbs >>>> list. Another mail directly from dell's or steve's email address for bx >>> and >>>> sx offerings only to paying members. >>>> >>>>> On 9 nov. 2014, at 18:08, "Nicholas Plummer" >>>> wrote: >>>>> >>>>> Definitely agree with this. Remember that you can set the list to >>>> digest mode and receive messages bundled together in a single email. It >>>> may mean that you're late to the party when BX and SX messages are sent >>>> out, but c'est la vie. >>>>> >>>>> Nick >>>>> >>>>> Sent from my iPhone >>>>> >>>>>> On Nov 9, 2014, at 11:57 AM, James SHIELDS >> >>>> wrote: >>>>>> >>>>>> Dear all, >>>>>> >>>>>> I can almost guarantee that setting the default to "reply to sender" >>>> will >>>>>> lead directly to the demise of this list. I've seen it tried a few >>>> times >>>>>> in the past. If you're too busy to read or at least delete the >>> messages >>>>>> from the list, maybe you should just leave. No need to kill it for >> the >>>>>> rest of us. >>>>> _______________________________________________ >>>>> pbs mailing list >>>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 10 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 15:19:47 -0700 >>> From: "penstemon" >>> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> Content-Type: text/plain; format=flowed; charset="iso-8859-1"; >>> reply-type=original >>> >>> >>> All of this is making my head hurt - What happened to BULBS ? >>> >>> >>> I agree. I'm getting a lot of repetitive messages about repetitive >>> messages. >>> >>> Bob Nold >>> Denver, Colorado >>> >>> >>> snowdrops in flower >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Message: 11 >>> Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 14:15:17 -0800 >>> From: ds429 >>> To: Pacific Bulb Society >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> Message-ID: >>> <1415571317.47584.YahooMailBasic@web163106.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> >>> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii >>> >>> Thanks Kelly. I'll try that the next time. >>> >>> Dell >>> -------------------------------------------- >>> On Sun, 11/9/14, Kelly Irvin wrote: >>> >>> Subject: Re: [pbs] repetitive messages >>> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" >>> Date: Sunday, November 9, 2014, 11:16 AM >>> >>> In line with Phil's >>> suggestion... >>> >>> This is a >>> test assuming the list does not accept HTML, only plain >>> text... >>> >>> Make this the first >>> line of the message and the last (and more >>> strategic locations, if necessary)... WHEN >>> REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, >>> CLICK HERE ---> >>> mailto:ds429@frontier.com >>> >>> Dell, with a minor bit of work >>> on your part, you can make it even more >>> user friendly by propagating the subject... >>> >>> WHEN REPLYING TO THE PBS BX, >>> CLICK HERE ---> >>> mailto:ds429@frontier.com?subject=ORDER_PBS_BX_### >>> >>> A subject with underscores for >>> spaces is a little rough, but has the >>> necessary identifiers for your own records >>> management. This would mean >>> you would have >>> to *change to the proper number* in the propagated >>> subject line with every new offer. The subject >>> cannot have any spaces >>> in it, hence the >>> underscores. >>> >>> -- >>> Mr. Kelly M. Irvin >>> 10850 Hodge >>> Ln >>> Gravette, AR 72736 >>> USA >>> >>> Home Phone: 479-787-9958 >>> >>> USDA Cold Hardiness Zone >>> 6a/b >>> >>> Facebook: https://www.facebook.com/kelly.m.irvin >>> >>> On 11/9/14, 8:31 AM, P. C. Andrews wrote: >>> > Perhaps start the PBX emails with >>> something like: >>> > >>> > >>> "Dear All, >>> > PLEASE DO NOT REPLY >>> DIRECTLY TO THIS EMAIL (see instructions >>> below).........." >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >>> >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> Subject: Digest Footer >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> >>> >>> ------------------------------ >>> >>> End of pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 12 >>> ************************************ >>> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From enoster@hotmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 19:18:13 -0800 Brian, Where I live in summer dry southern Oregon I have had the most success making divisions in late summer before the rains come and initiate new growth. Not sure when that would be for you. -Travis From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sun, 09 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 142, Issue 14 Date: Sun, 9 Nov 2014 20:31:12 -0700 Brian wrote from fair Albion regarding bearded Iris: > When is the best time to propagate > them? I've never gardened in England. Here in a much warmer climate they are mostly dormant during summer, and a little tricky to keep alive. Almost nobody succeeds with plants in the ground unless they are in a bed by themselves. Those in mostly sun must be kept mostly dry, with a little water once a week, but never into the foliage fan when it's hot. Container plants are brought into mostly shade to keep cooler. Rain is OK because temperatures are lower during storms. By late June foliage is almost dead and we trim it back. For dividing we lift in July, trim off dead roots and split up the rhizomes. They can be replanted in a 1 gallon container right away, watered a little and kept in the shade during our hottest season, or stored dry until replanting in the fall. Once nights cool they spring to life and grow rapidly. A dry leafless rhizome planted in fall will always bloom the next spring, and some rebloomers in the ground bloom in the fall. Leo Martin Zone ? Phoenix Arizona USA From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Mon, 10 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 08:21:45 -0500 The rule is to divide and replant after flowering. I have had some bearded irises in various parts of my zone 5 Great Lakes region with hot humid summers and alternately periods of drought and excessive wetness in summer for 42 years without any coddling. Tough little plants. There were instances when rhizomes made it through the winter on top of the ground where I left some and forgot about them. The only things that would do them in would be EXCESSIVE moisture in winter and iris borers. If you plant in slightly raised beds, you can get rid of of the moisture problem. Borers are a problem nowadays since all systemic insecticides have been banned by our leftist government in Ontario for a home gardener ( tones and tones of the same stuff dumped on our farm fields is OK. How is that for hypocrisy?) They need to be planted very shallow with some of the rhizome exposed. That said, they are very forgiving plants. As the other members mentioned, even the dried up ones from the box store or the ones that mail order nurseries insist on sending at the end of September will make it with some more care, perhaps planted in pots for the first winter and kept in a cold greenhouse? Bea Zone 5 Ontario -----Original Message----- From: T O Sent: Sunday, November 09, 2014 10:18 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Bearded Iris hybrids Brian, Where I live in summer dry southern Oregon I have had the most success making divisions in late summer before the rains come and initiate new growth. Not sure when that would be for you. -Travis _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Mon, 10 Nov 2014 11:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <1415646588.29673.YahooMailNeo@web186103.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 19:09:48 +0000 >The rule is to divide and replant after flowering.   It is because of the repeat flowering I asked. The "normal" single flowering I divide after flowering, in the summer, as in commerce, but there are 2 or more options with a repeat flowerer. After the first, after the second, after both if your greedy. I just went out in the dark and tried to count next years growth points on the frosted very wet plant. This was planted out around mid summer this year from a neglected 6" pot that I think had maybe 1 or 2 flower stems earlier this spring/summer. It had 4 flower stems and 1 non flowering "leaf fan" recently. Now there seems to be ~27 growth points around the 5 main previous growing points. This is in very poor wet sticky clay rich limey soil. I can obviously divide this into 5 good clumps, and maybe further, but when? I have unheated and frost free glasshouse in needed. Incidentally it is Iris "English Cottage". Visited small nursery today selling off all spring bulbs for £1 a pack (normally 2 - 3£). ;-) Lot of potting/planting to do.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, UK, zone ~8 ish From petersirises@gmail.com Mon, 10 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 20:21:52 +0000 Don't divide bearded Iris when temperatures are likely to freeze. They won't anchor themselves, (due to frost heave). In any case the roots don't grow when the temperature is near to freezing. you can get round this with a frost free greenhouse. English Cottage is a very good garden plant which flowers a lot, but the flowers have poor substance, (-they are easily damaged by wind and rain). Nor do they root in very arid Summer conditions but you can get round this by mulching with gravel. Peter UK On 10 November 2014 19:09, Brian Whyer wrote: > >The rule is to divide and replant after flowering. > > It is because of the repeat flowering I asked. The "normal" single > flowering I divide after flowering, in the summer, as in commerce, but > there are 2 or more options with a repeat flowerer. After the first, after > the second, after both if your greedy. > > ~27 growth points around the 5 main previous growing points. This is in > very poor wet sticky clay rich limey soil. I can obviously divide this into > 5 good clumps, and maybe further, but when? I have unheated and frost free > glasshouse in needed. > Incidentally it is Iris "English Cottage". > From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Mon, 10 Nov 2014 14:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:36:42 -0500 It is because of the repeat flowering I asked. Unfortunately in our climate the irises advertised as repeat flowering do not do that for me. I think that our growing season is too short although we are more or less at the same latitude as Rome, so the day length must be OK, but first hard frost can come any time after September 20th, although this year I still had nasturtium last week. Bea --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From plantsman@comcast.net Mon, 10 Nov 2014 16:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: <20141110233730.BE91720FEE@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Bearded Iris hybrids Date: Mon, 10 Nov 2014 15:35:26 -0800 I will always remember those repeat flowering Iris pictures taken by Ken Blackford in December of 2012 in Washington, DC (see links below). Thank you Ken. Nathan At 06:55 PM 12/2/2012, you wrote: >I visited the Capitol Conservatory and Gardens this morning to get >my plant fix >and was surprised >to see these bearded Iris "Harvest of Memories" in full bloom, >outside, on Dec >2nd, in front of the >conservatory! > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/8239258997/in/photostream > >http://www.flickr.com/photos/amarguy/8239258815/in/photostream > >Ken Blackford >in chilly Maryland >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From crinum@libero.it Tue, 11 Nov 2014 11:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <812628481.4313981415732584421.JavaMail.httpd@webmail-54.iol.local> From: Alberto Grossi Subject: OT-Looking for seeds Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:03:04 +0100 (CET) Hi All, I am looking for seeds of Arctostaphylos pringlei, a native shrub from California; may you suggest me a source? many thanksbest regardsAlberto From teck11@embarqmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <004401cffdf4$94ba2b30$be2e8190$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: OT-Looking for seeds Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 16:15:09 -0500 Treeshrubseeds.com (F.W.Schumacher) has four Arctostaphylos, but not that one. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Alberto Grossi Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 2:03 PM To: PBS Forum Subject: [pbs] OT-Looking for seeds Hi All, I am looking for seeds of Arctostaphylos pringlei, a native shrub from California; may you suggest me a source? many thanksbest regardsAlberto From penstemon@Q.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <90636486B8A042C299712EFF6A571319@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: OT-Looking for seeds Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:23:34 -0700 Hi All, I am looking for seeds of Arctostaphylos pringlei, a native shrub from California; may you suggest me a source? many thanksbest regardsAlberto Alplains. Arctostaphylos is generally very difficult to grow from seed. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From penstemon@Q.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <2C98D199E54741C2A35EE5F1DE6E3C9E@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: OT-Looking for seeds p.s. Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 14:30:44 -0700 Hi All, I am looking for seeds of Arctostaphylos pringlei, a native shrub from California; may you suggest me a source? many thanksbest Didn’t notice you were from Italia. I know of no seeds more difficult to germinate than Arctostaphylos. Compared to them, oncocyclus iris seeds come up like radishes. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 17:49:03 -0800 Today I was talking with another plant enthusiast, not a PBS member, and he told me he had collected plenty of seeds from several species he grows but didn't know how to distribute them. The problem is that they are species that are listed as threatened or endangered by either the US federal government or the government of one or another US state. In at least some of these jurisdictions, it is illegal to ship any material from a listed species outside the state. My friend is a very ethical hobby gardener and grew these garden plants from seed (he grew one colony from seed I donated to an exchange, which distributed it even though it is a state listed endangered species in California; I got the seed from the Robinetts many years ago). He was afraid that if he showed up as donating it, some member of the distributing society (PBS or NARGS, say) would report him to the authorities, or at the least blacken his reputation privately. He tried to get clear guidelines about this from a federal agency but was told that the regulations vary too much for them to provide such. I've noticed a few listed species in PBS BX offerings in the past. Has anyone who has donated such species to this or another exchange suffered unpleasant consequences, either public or private, as the result of notice by someone who believes that rare, threatened, or endangered plants should not be cultivated? I have heard this opinion expressed, notably by a representative of the Natural Resources Defense Fund in a public lecture. There are two arguments offered in support: (1) growing rare plants will bring them to the notice of other gardeners, who will plunder the wild populations in order to get them; and (2) the gene pool of the rare species may become altered by hybridization with closely related species in gardens. Both of these things certainly have happened, the former especially with regard to tropical orchids. The latter objection is a little silly, because many taxa that exist in only one population are in fact hybrids, either swarms or clones; indeed, that is one way speciation occurs. I think that if only one or two populations of a plant taxon exist, an effort should be made to grow seedlings from it. Its rarity may be the result of change in its habitat: both my friend and I adduced examples of plants of very restricted range that turn out to be good performers in gardens. Sometimes the habitat has been destroyed by human activity, by the expansion of an urban area or the suppression of forest fires. Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon Fritillaria liliacea or Erythronium elegans to extinction? Or are we free to grow them, listing notwithstanding? First of all, efforts should be made to preserve the habitat of rare plants, and indeed their presence can be the trigger for the preservation of a whole local ecosystem. However, not every seed that falls, even in the best habitat, will produce a reproductively mature plant, and so some portion of wild seed should be collected, carefully and knowledgeably grown (not just stored in a freezer), with the location recorded for possible reintroduction, and also kept in cultivation in case the habitat continues to change beyond the tolerance of the plant species. What has been your experience in dealing with this problem, and what do you think about it? How should my friend find growers for his seeds? Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Cyclamens with serrated leaves ? Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:05:07 -0500 Today totally by random, I picked up a Cyclamen that stood out - I've never seen a Cyclamen with anything but smooth leaves (and a wild variety of patterns/coloring, etc.) This one has serrated leaves, and ruffled leaves. The edges look like an old fashioned sawblade. Anyone seen this before? It is called Metis Pom Pom - and has dark bubblegum pink flowers that are basically ruffled and "folded flat" almost like a butterfly at rest which is also very unique looking. Just wondering if I lucked out on a one-of-a-kind mutation? From eciton@utexas.edu Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Monica Swartz Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:18:37 -0600 Jane, the US Endangered Species Act encourages the propagation and distribution of rare and listed species. There is a good discussion of this at http://www.torreyaguardians.org/shirey-2013-excerpts.pdf. You can reassure your friend that he is only helping these plants by propagation and distribution. If he wants to adhere to the strictest interpretation of the law, if he gives cultivated plants or seeds to others (without profit or gain), he is in total adherence to the law and can send them between states. Hope this helps, monica From scottrettenmund3@gmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Scott Rettenmund Subject: OT-Looking for seeds Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 18:31:49 -0800 Alplains has offered Arctostaphylos pringlei in the past. Best of luck. On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 11:03 AM, Alberto Grossi wrote: > Hi All, I am looking for seeds of Arctostaphylos pringlei, a native shrub > from California; may you suggest me a source? many thanksbest regardsAlberto > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <5D8B3D7E-3617-48FB-9FA3-8914EEF7488D@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Bearded Iris Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:58:36 -0600 Dear Friends, There have been a number of comments here that are ‘old news’ to many serious iris growers. The American Iris Society has almost 2 dozen regions in the US and Canada. On the AIS web site you can locate local iris societies that can answer many of these beginners questions. For example: Reblooming irises: These are very climate and regional specific. Although many CA originating hybrids rebloom reliably in CA, some do not rebloom or poorly in some other regions such as the midwest. Here in Kanssas City there are a number or reliable beautiful reblooming bearded irises and these are a frequent topic of conversation at the Greater Kansas City Iris Society. If you go the AIS web site you can locate which region you live in, then find a local club in that region and ask members which irises do best there. Also local clubs have sales of irises that do best in that region and often are very bargain prices. And plenty of experience about the best time to dig and divide in your exact climate. And plenty of experience about irises forgotten in a box in the garage for a year, then found, planted an all survived and bloomed etc. In other words I strongly urge anyone who is intent on expanding their experience growing bearded , beardless, bulbous and all other irises to at least contact a local club for specifics about your area. Go to the AIS page with a list of Regions ( http://www.irises.org/About_AIS/Regions.html) then click on the region that includes you state or province. For example this is mine: http://www.irises.org/About_AIS/Regional_Affiliates/Reg18Aff.html There are almost 18 local clubs in a 2 state area. Each club has an email contact and many have their own web pages such as http://www.kciris.org/Home.html My club also has member only web info and newsletters about meetings, sales, shows and more. There is a vast amount of practical information out there to learn about specific plants in your climate. Feel free to write if you need help. Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:11:44 -0600 JAne McG wrote: > > What has been your experience in dealing with this problem, and what do you think about it? How should my friend find growers for his seeds? > > Jane McGary Dear Jane and all, This is a very sticky point. Literally over the course of decades and communicating with like minded growers, I know who are good people to send rare seeds or other materials. The very comments you made about the restrictive nature of narrow distribution of endangered species must be given serious thought. I do not send seeds to a part of the US that I do not think is appropriate for growing a species. Over the years I have shared seeds and plants from all over the US and the world on a very limited basis with people I can vouch for. Jane surely your friend has friends who he/she can trust and each of them have friends, etc. I do not sell these rarest of the rare and urge friends-even commercial growers, not to sell their seedlings. I am reminded of a large botanical garden (no name) grows a very rare plant that became extinct in the wild. It proved easy enough to grow, but extremely difficult to propagate. Eventually they figured out a couple simple techniques and were able to propagate hundreds of plants, but because of its status in the wild they could not distribute the seedlings. On top of that it is a plant that would be highly desirable to hoe gardeners. As it stands now it is grown in only 2 non-US botanical gardens. They are stuck with hundreds of plants. To add insult recently a plant that was on public display was stolen by a garden visitor and the National Police were called on to investigate this as an international incident. This is a sorry situation where a simple distribution to qualified growers could produce hundreds or thousands of plants for wide distribution, but it is illegal. This is just the bare bones of a complex situation. I believe in conserve ration through cultivation: grow it and share it. This reduce pressure on wild populations, encourages appreciation for the rare status and improves the overall gene pool through proper management. So Jane- tell you friend to contact trusted friends and their friends and so one. I would never advertise to the general public, garden group, seed exchange etc. Best Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From eciton@utexas.edu Tue, 11 Nov 2014 23:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Monica Swartz Subject: Opposition to Ex-Situ Conservation (was Sharing seeds of rare plants) Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:13:22 -0600 Jane, after sending my last email about the US Endangered Species Act, I realized I failed to address your question about practical experience with this issue. I have had opposition to any captive cultivation of rare plants from people like the NRDC lecturer you mentioned. In California, for example, the California Native Plant Society takes the position that all such efforts should be restricted to qualified biologists working with the regulatory agencies (see http://www.cnps.org/cnps/archive/ex_situ.php). Does CNPS decide who is qualified? Some of the best botanists I know have no formal degrees in the field, would they qualify? I started a group of'"amateurs" (all expert native plant horticulturalists) that grow rare plants for producing seed for reintroduction to the wild. The group received some funding from USFWS and was advised by me, a Professor of Conservation Biology. There was enormous opposition to this from various people in the environmental community that I still fail to understand. Even a botanist working for the state wildlife agency vehemently opposed the group. Many of our members dropped out of the projects in horror at the reactions. I have worked with many USFWS biologists and all believed that without "nonprofessional" engagement in conservation, we have little chance of avoiding extinction of many rare plants. I have not found that this belief is held by all state wildlife biologists or conservation NGOs. monica From kimcmich@hotmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming in 4-6 years Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:15:26 -0800 Greetings, A few things are waking up here in Berkeley, but I'm more stoked about the 20+ species (and 10+ varieties in addition) of California native Calochortus I just planted. A few should be easy, but I'm crossing my fingers for a few of the touchier species from Southern California. http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/calochorti.jpg -| From: Jude Haverington Subject: What's blooming in 4-6 years Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 22:19:26 -0500 That looks really nice and clean! Can't wait to see progress! May I ask how you "did that" with the photo / link? Best, Jude On Tue, Nov 11, 2014 at 10:15 PM, Kipp McMichael wrote: > Greetings, > > A few things are waking up here in Berkeley, but I'm more stoked about > the 20+ species (and 10+ varieties in addition) of California native > Calochortus I just planted. A few should be easy, but I'm crossing my > fingers for a few of the touchier species from Southern California. > > http://www.anexaminedlife.net/bulbs/calochorti.jpg > > -| > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Don/Diane Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:48:55 -0800 On 2014-11-11, at 5:49 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > The problem is that they are species that are listed as threatened or endangered by either the US federal government or the government of one or another US state. In at least some of these jurisdictions, it is illegal to ship any material from a listed species outside the state. > How should my friend find growers for his seeds? > It was a long time ago that I discussed this with an AgCanada inspector, so I hope I am remembering correctly. In Canada, when a plant or animal that has CITES protection is imported illegally, the organism is sent to a designated haven - a zoo or botanic garden. Would public gardens be allowed to receive your friend's seeds? Perhaps he could assume his plants have been selected by being grown in several gardens prior to his growing them, so they might be eligible for a cultivar name. Would that allow him to distribute the seeds? Diane Whitehead From kimcmich@hotmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:55:08 -0800 > From: jwaddick@kc.rr.com > I am reminded of a large botanical garden (no name) grows a very rare plant that became extinct in the wild... I assume James is refrerring to Nymphaea thermarum (or maybe this story is more common than I thought). The issue with this plant - and many others both actually rare/protected and not at all threatened - is the Convention on Biological Diversity. This agreement means that a given taxon is considered the property of its home country, meaning a given botanical garden is not allowed to distribute the plant without formal agreements from the origin country/region/tribe/etc to allow for this. Since sovereigns are rarely interested in small-scale horticultural deals, the CBD effectively prevents the very kind of conservation-minded distributions you and Jane are talking about (a topic that has been discussed here before). Kew can't give out N. thermarum seeds or plants without some formal agreement/process to "compensate" Rwanda. Although in principle the CBD is designed to encourage groups to figure out how to use the sale of a rare taxon to fund preservation in the wild, this is rarely the result because many rare taxa are not particularly charismatic - or are only so for a small number of people. The result is that rare taxa that are easy to grow and propagate remain rare and risk true extinction when a given botanical garden's staff loses interest in keeping the plant. Very, very frustrating... -| From: Kipp McMichael Subject: What's blooming in 4-6 years Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 19:58:33 -0800 >Jude wrote:> May I ask how you "did that" with the photo / link? Greetings, I have my own domain so I can upload images there and link to them from PBS emails. I just uploaded the image and then pasted the url into the email. Depending on your email reader/client, you may see a hotlink, an image preview or just a text url when viewing my message. -| From: Don/Diane Subject: Cyclamens with serrated leaves ? Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:08:12 -0800 I just googled and you haven't got a "one-off" - there is a whole series of Pom-Pom cyclamen. They are described as "innovative with a nicely fringed flower rim and long, light green foliage; also lightly crenelled". I would prefer some space between the flowers - the ones on the website look like a thick bunch crammed into a jam jar. Diane Whitehead From othonna@gmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Tue, 11 Nov 2014 20:18:39 -0800 Jane brings up some challenging aspects of enjoying and sharing rare bulbs. I have been involved in several rare plant restoration projects (not bulbs) and have an interest in cultivating uncommon bulbs so will add a few comments on a complicated subject. When someone puts forth the idea that there is a supposed risk of hybridization or genetic erosion of a rare plant held in captivity in private hands it presupposes, among other possibilities, that 1) the cultivated plants are being grown in proximity to a wild population that could be contaminated, or 2) the cultivated material will be used in future restoration projects to help a particular species. Both of these scenarios are exceedingly unlikely for any particular species. In consideration of conservation issues, why should there be any restriction on any cultivated rare plant that has been artificially propagated? This is where CITES, in not regarding nursery grown plants as procedurally distinct from wild-collected plants, fails to balance the needs of people and plants. Some plants are at risk from over-collecting certainly, but the far greater threat to rare plants-- all plants-- is habitat alteration or destruction. That is a much more difficult problem to subdue than supposed transgressions of the nursery trade and collectors. No one can say what is the harm in gathering a pinch of seed from any population of plants, rare or otherwise. Since bona fide seed banks regularly collect seed from populations of endangered species with scientific guidance we could assume that sampling per se is not harmful. Should collecting wild material of a rare species for a purpose other than authorized conservation work be illegal? Who decides what is appropriate utilization of these resources? Only by cultivating rare plants can we learn the skills needed to supply market demand (e.g., Cypripedium reginae, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) and at the same time be able to assist restoration efforts of those same species. Expert horticultural ability is not in the skillet of the biologists, ecologists and land managers who take up reintroduction work directly. This is one of their greatest weaknesses for project success and also an opportunity to build bridges. At the same time, we should remember that reintroduction work adheres to strict scientific guidelines for the long and complex process of outplanting experiments. "Horticultural" material of rare plants, even when documented, would only very rarely be considered for such work. In this sense our beloved plants are not conservation material but they are just as important in their role as the subject of an essential human endeavor. It is debatable if the display or availability of rare or endangered (listed) plants risks someone being inspired to then go out and take plants or seeds from the wild. A much more likely and demonstrable outcome is that cultivated rare plants inspire people to appreciation (apart from growing) of precious natural resources and raise awareness of the importance of conservation and stewardship. Those who would advocate that stewardship should be restricted solely to nature management need to provide a sound argument for that position and explain where the importance of rarity trails off and we can then justify the asters, daylilies and liquidambars all around us. "*Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon **Fritillaria liliacea or Erythronium elegans to extinction?*" Jane, I think that would be abandonment of moral duty. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From teck11@embarqmail.com Tue, 11 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <008701cffe37$080efc90$182cf5b0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 00:10:51 -0500 I haven't heard anyone state the obvious yet - that CITES is a primitive, misguided mistake that should be corrected. Its results are as devastating as the results of prohibition where the net result was to increase alcoholism and create a class of mobsters. The problem is that there are nowhere near the resources available to do something useful in species conservation so they did something stupid instead. "When the only tool you have is a hammer, everything looks like a nail". Recently I investigated having American chestnut tissue culture done in a Canadian lab that specializes in hardwoods. But I wouldn't be allowed to bring it back to the states EVEN IN FLASK because of the risk of chestnut blight (virtually non-existent in Canada and 110 years too late) and the chestnut gall wasp (non-existent in Canada and 30 years too late). Frankly, I think civil disobedience is in order wherever feasible. Tim -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:19 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Jane brings up some challenging aspects of enjoying and sharing rare bulbs. I have been involved in several rare plant restoration projects (not bulbs) and have an interest in cultivating uncommon bulbs so will add a few comments on a complicated subject. When someone puts forth the idea that there is a supposed risk of hybridization or genetic erosion of a rare plant held in captivity in private hands it presupposes, among other possibilities, that 1) the cultivated plants are being grown in proximity to a wild population that could be contaminated, or 2) the cultivated material will be used in future restoration projects to help a particular species. Both of these scenarios are exceedingly unlikely for any particular species. In consideration of conservation issues, why should there be any restriction on any cultivated rare plant that has been artificially propagated? This is where CITES, in not regarding nursery grown plants as procedurally distinct from wild-collected plants, fails to balance the needs of people and plants. Some plants are at risk from over-collecting certainly, but the far greater threat to rare plants-- all plants-- is habitat alteration or destruction. That is a much more difficult problem to subdue than supposed transgressions of the nursery trade and collectors. No one can say what is the harm in gathering a pinch of seed from any population of plants, rare or otherwise. Since bona fide seed banks regularly collect seed from populations of endangered species with scientific guidance we could assume that sampling per se is not harmful. Should collecting wild material of a rare species for a purpose other than authorized conservation work be illegal? Who decides what is appropriate utilization of these resources? Only by cultivating rare plants can we learn the skills needed to supply market demand (e.g., Cypripedium reginae, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) and at the same time be able to assist restoration efforts of those same species. Expert horticultural ability is not in the skillet of the biologists, ecologists and land managers who take up reintroduction work directly. This is one of their greatest weaknesses for project success and also an opportunity to build bridges. At the same time, we should remember that reintroduction work adheres to strict scientific guidelines for the long and complex process of outplanting experiments. "Horticultural" material of rare plants, even when documented, would only very rarely be considered for such work. In this sense our beloved plants are not conservation material but they are just as important in their role as the subject of an essential human endeavor. It is debatable if the display or availability of rare or endangered (listed) plants risks someone being inspired to then go out and take plants or seeds from the wild. A much more likely and demonstrable outcome is that cultivated rare plants inspire people to appreciation (apart from growing) of precious natural resources and raise awareness of the importance of conservation and stewardship. Those who would advocate that stewardship should be restricted solely to nature management need to provide a sound argument for that position and explain where the importance of rarity trails off and we can then justify the asters, daylilies and liquidambars all around us. "*Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon **Fritillaria liliacea or Erythronium elegans to extinction?*" Jane, I think that would be abandonment of moral duty. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From Tony@plantdelights.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 04:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:05:47 -0500 I have had more dealings with the self-appointed controllers of rare plants than I'd like to remember. I find their arguments devoid of any logic and find their arrogance disappointing. First, if anyone believes that climate changes, then the least effective method of conserving a rare plant would be in situ conservation. Propagation and widespread distribution is far more logical. While in situ conservation makes us feel good and may be fine in the short term, it really isn't a good long term conservation strategy. I dealt with the "preserve this ideal point in time because it makes me feel worthy" plant crowd when serving an 8-year term with on our NC Rare Plant Scientific Committee. I once mentioned propagating the rare native Echinacea laevigata and the purists on the committee immediately threw up the standard response....the lunacy of genetic contamination if plants are planted near the a conservation site. Correct me if I'm wrong, but few plants would exist today without genetic exchange between populations, since as we all know, genetic bottlenecks usually lead to long term population decline and reductions in adaptability. The US has been glaciated 17 times, during which plants were moved all around the continent. It is this constant movement that keeps populations reinvigorated, as opposed to the isolation that exists now as natural distributions have been interrupted by humans. Also, would it not be worse on a natural population of Echinacea laevigata if a homeowner plan ted the commonly sold Echinacea purpurea near the preserve since echinaceas are notorious cross breeders? Even this, according to Dr. Rob Griesbach of the USDA would be a good idea, since according to him, the most efficient way to preserve to genetics is to create hybrids since these store all of the genetics from several parents in a single offspring. The entire notion of preserving rare plant genetics is actually a modus operandi to preserve the flow of grant money to fund people with this myopic view of nature. I also like to bring up to the plant conservation idealists...why are you preserving a rare plant? Most plants are rare because they are poorly adaptable..often existing in a very specialized, limited size ecosystem. It seems to me that these plants were destined by nature to go extinct, if you consider historical climate change part of nature. Finally, if the plant is not going to be used by humans, what is the point of preservation, if you limit human access and use? In my world, any use that has an economic benefit would be desirable, since this is the basis of our human society. Our current system is sadly broken, but the until there is a major backlash against the academic elite of the world, both plants and humans will suffer. Just my two cents. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdelights.com "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:19 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Jane brings up some challenging aspects of enjoying and sharing rare bulbs. I have been involved in several rare plant restoration projects (not bulbs) and have an interest in cultivating uncommon bulbs so will add a few comments on a complicated subject. When someone puts forth the idea that there is a supposed risk of hybridization or genetic erosion of a rare plant held in captivity in private hands it presupposes, among other possibilities, that 1) the cultivated plants are being grown in proximity to a wild population that could be contaminated, or 2) the cultivated material will be used in future restoration projects to help a particular species. Both of these scenarios are exceedingly unlikely for any particular species. In consideration of conservation issues, why should there be any restriction on any cultivated rare plant that has been artificially propagated? This is where CITES, in not regarding nursery grown plants as procedurally distinct from wild-collected plants, fails to balance the needs of people and plants. Some plants are at risk from over-collecting certainly, but the far greater threat to rare plants-- all plants-- is habitat alteration or destruction. That is a much more difficult problem to subdue than supposed transgressions of the nursery trade and collectors. No one can say what is the harm in gathering a pinch of seed from any population of plants, rare or otherwise. Since bona fide seed banks regularly collect seed from populations of endangered species with scientific guidance we could assume that sampling per se is not harmful. Should collecting wild material of a rare species for a purpose other than authorized conservation work be illegal? Who decides what is appropriate utilization of these resources? Only by cultivating rare plants can we learn the skills needed to supply market demand (e.g., Cypripedium reginae, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) and at the same time be able to assist restoration efforts of those same species. Expert horticultural ability is not in the skillet of the biologists, ecologists and land managers who take up reintroduction work directly. This is one of their greatest weaknesses for project success and also an opportunity to build bridges. At the same time, we should remember that reintroduction work adheres to strict scientific guidelines for the long and complex process of outplanting experiments. "Horticultural" material of rare plants, even when documented, would only very rarely be considered for such work. In this sense our beloved plants are not conservation material but they are just as important in their role as the subject of an essential human endeavor. It is debatable if the display or availability of rare or endangered (listed) plants risks someone being inspired to then go out and take plants or seeds from the wild. A much more likely and demonstrable outcome is that cultivated rare plants inspire people to appreciation (apart from growing) of precious natural resources and raise awareness of the importance of conservation and stewardship. Those who would advocate that stewardship should be restricted solely to nature management need to provide a sound argument for that position and explain where the importance of rarity trails off and we can then justify the asters, daylilies and liquidambars all around us. "*Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon **Fritillaria liliacea or Erythronium elegans to extinction?*" Jane, I think that would be abandonment of moral duty. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________ From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <546366AC.5070705@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 05:54:52 -0800 Thank you, Tony for this posting. I have been roundly attacked by members of the California Native Plant Society, most of whom have no understanding of genetics beyond Mendel's peas. My local chapter is especially rabid and even published a lengthy article (not a letter to editor) in a local newspaper attacking me. The newspaper refused to print my rebuttal. As a result, I basically have nothing to do with native plant societies. My local USDA office, on the other hand, has been more than friendly and helpful. They say I can sell threatened or endangered native species within the USA but can't ship abroad without a CITES certificate. I have obtained the few species I have that are listed from legitimate sources, usually from the director of the Tilden Park Botanical Garden in Berkeley in years past or from their plant sales, none have been wild collected, at least by me. As for donating seeds to botanical gardens, survival in botanical gardens is dependent upon funding, which is, in many instances, being severely reduced or eliminated. Many botanical gardens here in California have had their funding reduced to nothing, and are told they must be self supporting. Since the level of interest in plants in the USA is not very high, the future of these gardens looks grim. I believe this happened at UC Irvine, which once had a superb bulb collection, and also at UC Santa Cruz. In addition, staff come and go in botanical gardens, and if someone with a particular interest in, let's say, Calochortus, has been propagating and sustaining the collection in a garden and then moves on, the collection will suffer unless there is another to take over. The best insurance is widespread distribution of sensitive plant material. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs > I have had more dealings with the self-appointed controllers of rare plants than I'd like to remember. I find their arguments devoid of any logic and find their arrogance disappointing. First, if anyone believes that climate changes, then the least effective method of conserving a rare plant would be in situ conservation. Propagation and widespread distribution is far more logical. While in situ conservation makes us feel good and may be fine in the short term, it really isn't a good long term conservation strategy. > > I dealt with the "preserve this ideal point in time because it makes me feel worthy" plant crowd when serving an 8-year term with on our NC Rare Plant Scientific Committee. I once mentioned propagating the rare native Echinacea laevigata and the purists on the committee immediately threw up the standard response....the lunacy of genetic contamination if plants are planted near the a conservation site. Correct me if I'm wrong, but few plants would exist today without genetic exchange between populations, since as we all know, genetic bottlenecks usually lead to long term population decline and reductions in adaptability. The US has been glaciated 17 times, during which plants were moved all around the continent. It is this constant movement that keeps populations reinvigorated, as opposed to the isolation that exists now as natural distributions have been interrupted by humans. Also, would it not be worse on a natural population of Echinacea laevigata if a homeowner pl an > ted the commonly sold Echinacea purpurea near the preserve since echinaceas are notorious cross breeders? Even this, according to Dr. Rob Griesbach of the USDA would be a good idea, since according to him, the most efficient way to preserve to genetics is to create hybrids since these store all of the genetics from several parents in a single offspring. The entire notion of preserving rare plant genetics is actually a modus operandi to preserve the flow of grant money to fund people with this myopic view of nature. > > I also like to bring up to the plant conservation idealists...why are you preserving a rare plant? Most plants are rare because they are poorly adaptable..often existing in a very specialized, limited size ecosystem. It seems to me that these plants were destined by nature to go extinct, if you consider historical climate change part of nature. > > Finally, if the plant is not going to be used by humans, what is the point of preservation, if you limit human access and use? In my world, any use that has an economic benefit would be desirable, since this is the basis of our human society. Our current system is sadly broken, but the until there is a major backlash against the academic elite of the world, both plants and humans will suffer. Just my two cents. > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:19 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants > > Jane brings up some challenging aspects of enjoying and sharing rare bulbs. > I have been involved in several rare plant restoration projects (not bulbs) > and have an interest in cultivating uncommon bulbs so will add a few > comments on a complicated subject. > > When someone puts forth the idea that there is a supposed risk of > hybridization or genetic erosion of a rare plant held in captivity in > private hands it presupposes, among other possibilities, that 1) the > cultivated plants are being grown in proximity to a wild population that > could be contaminated, or 2) the cultivated material will be used in future > restoration projects to help a particular species. Both of these scenarios > are exceedingly unlikely for any particular species. > > In consideration of conservation issues, why should there be any > restriction on any cultivated rare plant that has been artificially > propagated? This is where CITES, in not regarding nursery grown plants as > procedurally distinct from wild-collected plants, fails to balance the > needs of people and plants. Some plants are at risk from over-collecting > certainly, but the far greater threat to rare plants-- all plants-- is > habitat alteration or destruction. That is a much more difficult problem to > subdue than supposed transgressions of the nursery trade and collectors. > > No one can say what is the harm in gathering a pinch of seed from any > population of plants, rare or otherwise. Since bona fide seed banks > regularly collect seed from populations of endangered species with > scientific guidance we could assume that sampling per se is not harmful. > Should collecting wild material of a rare species for a purpose other than > authorized conservation work be illegal? Who decides what is appropriate > utilization of these resources? > > Only by cultivating rare plants can we learn the skills needed to supply > market demand (e.g., Cypripedium reginae, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) and at > the same time be able to assist restoration efforts of those same species. > Expert horticultural ability is not in the skillet of the biologists, > ecologists and land managers who take up reintroduction work directly. This > is one of their greatest weaknesses for project success and also an > opportunity to build bridges. At the same time, we should remember that > reintroduction work adheres to strict scientific guidelines for the long > and complex process of outplanting experiments. "Horticultural" material of > rare plants, even when documented, would only very rarely be considered for > such work. In this sense our beloved plants are not conservation material > but they are just as important in their role as the subject of an essential > human endeavor. > > It is debatable if the display or availability of rare or endangered > (listed) plants risks someone being inspired to then go out and take plants > or seeds from the wild. A much more likely and demonstrable outcome is that > cultivated rare plants inspire people to appreciation (apart from growing) > of precious natural resources and raise awareness of the importance of > conservation and stewardship. Those who would advocate that stewardship > should be restricted solely to nature management need to provide a sound > argument for that position and explain where the importance of rarity > trails off and we can then justify the asters, daylilies and liquidambars > all around us. > > "*Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon **Fritillaria liliacea or > Erythronium elegans to extinction?*" Jane, I think that would > be abandonment of moral duty. > > > Dylan Hannon > > *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an > useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From jgglatt@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <54636CFE.3010606@gmail.com> From: Judy Glattstein Subject: CITES and Galanthus Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:21:50 -0500 A number of years ago I was in England. A friend I was visiting said he would give me some named Galanthus cultivars. I had an import permit. Phoned APHIS at Kennedy Airport and spoke to the man in charge. Suggested that since Galanthus are not native to the UK and we were talking about a total of maybe 6 bulbs - how about my friend and I would go to a notary in his town and attest to the cultivated origin of these named Galanthus cutivars. No, he told me. I needed government level export and import documentation. I guess maintaining the letter of the law was the important concern. The intention of protecting the plants was not. Speaking of which, and staying with Galanthus - do you know the story of Nancy Goodwin in North Carolina? She went to a local hardware store and bought something like 100 Galanthus nivalis. Only they began flowering in December. Turns out they were all Galanthus elwesii monosticta. No doubt there was the necessary paperwork but a bulb is a bulb is a bulb. For sure these were all wild collected. Judy in incredibly foggy New Jersey, frantically trying to prepare for the Polar Vortex due to arrive tomorrow night. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From enoster@hotmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Arctostaphylos seed Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:48:13 -0800 I have read that seeds of Arctostaphylos germinate better when given fire treatment. We have native Arctostaphylos and Ceanothus species which seem to sprout up where there was a fire, either someone's burnt leaf pile or otherwise. The dried berries, as opposed to the cleaned seeds may germ better after being shipped overseas. Does anyone know of bulb seeds that require fire? The Bulb Maven blog (Telos) has mentioned it about at least one S. African species. -Travis From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415803705.68898.YahooMailNeo@web126205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: What's blooming in 4-6 years Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:48:25 -0800 Jude, I think I might have purchased two of the same cyclamen here in Maryland. Take a look here and let me know what you think: http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/mini-cyclamen.html These are sweet! Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415804024.77989.YahooMailNeo@web126206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: CITES and Galanthus Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 06:53:44 -0800 Judy, I had the same experience years ago. I ordered 500 Galanthus elwesii from a well known national mail order source. They were planted in the front lawn (something which, in retrospect, I would never do again) and soon they were blooming. They were the one-spot Galanthus elwesii (monostictus) and varied a lot - obviously they were wild collected. Now, many years later, I still occasionally find one with a distinct pattern I had never noticed before. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where it's time to get away from this keyboard and into the garden. From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415805337.76037.YahooMailNeo@web161401.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Rodney Barton via pbs Subject: Arctostaphylos seed Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:15:37 -0800 Patersonia require or at least germinate better after exposure to smoke. There may be some other AU species as well. I have a paper around here some where ... Rod ________________________________ From: T O To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 8:48 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] Arctostaphylos seed I have read that seeds of Arctostaphylos germinate better when given fire treatment. We have native Arctostaphylos and Ceanothus species which seem to sprout up where there was a fire, either someone's burnt leaf pile or otherwise. The dried berries, as opposed to the cleaned seeds may germ better after being shipped overseas. Does anyone know of bulb seeds that require fire? The Bulb Maven blog (Telos) has mentioned it about at least one S. African species. -Travis From msittner@mcn.org Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: <20141112160557.A50A8208F4@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Fire needed to germinate seeds Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 07:56:11 -0800 Travis asked: >Does anyone know of bulb seeds that require fire? One of the positive aspects of the pbs list is the archive of previous posts that David Pilling created. It is especially useful if you haven't saved a helpful previous post or if you are new to growing bulbs or to the list. Some of the information from list posts has been added to the wiki by the volunteers who give of their time to do this, but since there aren't a lot of those, the amazing wealth of information can be accessed by searching the archive. Here's some posts from the past about people's experiments using fire to germinate seeds, 2004-2006. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2004-January/n9u0lkosgbjg2r6n9feo7cncl4.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2006-October/tg5c7vphgcged9ccjnsssd4gn4.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2005-August/ett17hghtm69tmra57hqgvbjt0.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2005-August/r1m1q72gdcdmaq2rlvpl1qpaj5.html http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/2005-August/2v5rc4re7qtm4apfhe410mdua2.html I tried using the smoke papers that Silverhill Seed sells on Aristea seed that I was finding hard to germinate. Rachel even gave me extra seed so I could give it a try. I didn't find any difference and in fact I think that I had better germination in the untreated pots. Erica seed pots treated with the smoke water germinated much better on the other hand than pots without it. Mary Sue From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:17:11 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:58:23 -0700 Many here overlook that the only concern of a government and its camp followers is power: Preserving it and acquiring more. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From teck11@embarqmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <003101cffe94$215e8050$641b80f0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:17:13 -0500 Leo, I think the more conservative view is government as a 'protection racket' - if you give them money they won't beat you up (and will discourage others from doing so). Liberals tend to think they should promote the common welfare and avert 'the tragedy of the commons'. I really don't know what history has to say on the subject. Tim Eck PA zone 6 before they changed the weather -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Leo Martin Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:58 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Many here overlook that the only concern of a government and its camp followers is power: Preserving it and acquiring more. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: CITES and Galanthus Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:18:03 -0500 Hear, Hear Judy. The polar vortex, which became a household word lately. After the never ending winter, cold summer and now this, it is hard to take the global warning thing seriously. I know, I know! It is only a snap shot in the overall weather pattern! Off to the garden to do whatever in possible. I enjoyed the whole discussion about plant conservation and government involvement ( one does not live by bulb alone), but who am I among the heavyweights of horticulture such as yourself to pipe in? Maybe following common sense is a better choice that adhering to the letter of the law sometimes? It is so wonderful to hear from people whom I only knew from reading books before I joined the society and all the other diverse people who contribute horticultural wisdom to this forum Bea. -----Original Message----- From: Judy Glattstein Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 9:21 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] CITES and Galanthus A number of years ago I was in England. A friend I was visiting said he would give me some named Galanthus cultivars. I had an import permit. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From ksayce@willapabay.org Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <6E9D1B50-9BEC-493B-8036-9BAAEC7755C4@willapabay.org> From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:47:28 -0800 I have also had very negative experiences with the California Native Plant Society, concerning ESA-listed Pacific Coast Iris, even though the plants were garden grown, and had been so long before this species was listed. My personal conclusion was, when I had seeds from my own plants, that I would go ahead and share them to nonprofit seed exchanges. But I agree, those folks can be quite rabid on the subject! Kathleen From erik@tepuidesign.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erik Van Lennep Subject: CITES and lunacy Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:04:27 +0100 Following this discussion with great interest. When I was doing a lot more plant exploration than recently (1970's and 1980's) it was standard practice for endangered plants seized at the point of import without CITES papers to be sent to incineration. Endangered animals were euthanised.If the border boys could say, "nope, we didn't let none of them CITES things through", I guess that was 'job well done'. Presumably that has changed a lot since then, but what happens to all the plants and animals which are not taken in by botanic gardens or zoos? CITES is designed by and administered by "bean counters", so applying the letter of the law is what counts to them, not survival of the organisms as individuals, nor the species as a whole. It was started as a broken system, and seriously needs public and vocal discussion leading to a thorough overhaul. erik From penstemon@Q.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <0DBFBB7C21AC48B0B5380D2B103F6836@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: CITES and Galanthus Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:11:58 -0700 >Speaking of which, and staying with Galanthus - do you know the story of >Nancy Goodwin in North Carolina? She went to a local hardware store and >bought something like 100 Galanthus nivalis. Only they began flowering in >December. Turns out they were all Galanthus elwesii monosticta. It turns out that these are Galanthus elwesii var. monostictus Hiemalis Group. (Whew.) I suspect that these laws are punishment-oriented rather than prevention-oriented. If an individual were caught with galanthus dug from the wild, would be the bulbs be returned to the wild? Preventing an individual from importing a cultivated galanthus seems to have no purpose other than punishment. Certainly not protection of wild species. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado high of zero (-17C) today From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1415813341.91253.YahooMailNeo@web126204.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 09:29:01 -0800 Leo wrote: Many here overlook that the only concern of a government and its campfollowers is power: Preserving it and acquiring more." Which is why so many of us have learned (often the hard way) that asking for forgiveness is easier than getting permission. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From penstemon@Q.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <3130FA2C7AD244A19765AD019223013D@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Arctostaphylos seed Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 10:33:46 -0700 >I have read that seeds of Arctostaphylos germinate better when given fire >treatment. We have native Arctostaphylos and Ceanothus species which seem >to sprout up where there was a fire, either >someone's burnt leaf pile or >otherwise. The dried berries, as opposed to the cleaned seeds may germ >better after being shipped overseas. The nutlets of Arctostaphylos have a periole plugged with a wax-like substance which needs to be removed prior to germination; heating by fire doesn't always do this. The "simplest" method is to remove the plug (I use a dental pick) and then stratify until the seed germinates, in 500 years. I was able to germinate one seed of A. pringlei last year. >Does anyone know of bulb seeds that require fire? A better word than "require" might be "utilize". Seeds of many species said to "require" fire can be germinated by cold, if the seeds are cold hardy. Non-bulbous examples are Romneya coulteri and Fremontodendron californicum. There may very well be a difference in the hardiness of a seed versus the hardiness of a bulb. Most cold-hardy bulbs are only hardy to about 10 degrees (-12C), if even that, but the seeds appear to be much hardier to cold. So, seeds sown in a pot and left outdoors in a place where no living creature wants to go outside (here, today) might be perfectly hardy and germinate the following spring, but a bulb in the same pot would be dead as of today. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From iranaquatic@yahoo.ca Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1053061424.159518.1415818813906.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10610.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Mohammad Sadegh Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:00:13 +0000 (UTC) Write a simply name instead of full scientific name , Like Iris Seeds , Lily Seeds . Mohammad SadeghArdabil ,Iran On Wednesday, November 12, 2014 10:16 PM, Kathleen Sayce wrote: I have also had very negative experiences with the California Native Plant Society, concerning ESA-listed Pacific Coast Iris, even though the plants were garden grown, and had been so long before this species was listed. My personal conclusion was, when I had seeds from my own plants, that I would go ahead and share them to nonprofit seed exchanges. But I agree, those folks can be quite rabid on the subject! Kathleen _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From richrd@nas.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:20:48 -0800 On Nov 12, 2014, at 7:58 AM, Leo Martin wrote: > Many here overlook that the only concern of a government and its camp > followers is power: Preserving it and acquiring more. Leo, for some things in society somebody has to do it. It would be senseless to make an agreement by individual Chinese and American as recent headline "US and China leaders in 'historic' greenhouse gas emissions pledge" . For me, I believe we should take care of our ecosystem at least as carefully as we take care of ourselves. For example, now that pollen contamination by gmo crops has become a legal and food safety issue there is concern about contamination of neighboring crops. Relative to plant propagators we need to also be aware of potential impacts to the ecosystem by our individual actions of plant introduction. To me this is a very interesting conversation. Relative to our own native plant propagation and nursery sales our production is determined by our customers needs. Some do not care about seed source but others have very strict standards. I think there is validity in this quote but note also customers have their own standards relative to this dismissal of seed purity standards for reintroduction.. 'Hybridization has been important (1) for the ecology and evolution of plants, (2) as a source of economically important plants (e.g., crops and ornamentals), (3) for biodiversity and unique community interactions, and (4) as a catalyst for speciation in other organisms; conversely, hybridization also poses risks to rare plant species including (1) introgression that reduces genetic diversity, (2) reductions in fitness due to outbreeding depression, (3) contaminating ex situ gene pools for future reintroduction or restoration, and (4) reduced legal protection (Whitham & Maschinski 1996; Soltis & Gitzendanner 1999; Allendorf et al. 2001; Guerrant et al. 2004). Generally, the conservation value of hybrids increases as a function of time since the hybridization event (Travis et al. 2008). In the United States, interstate commerce and trade involving natural or anthropogenic hybrids of listed plant species is unregulated. As a matter of policy, the FWS considers the intentional hybridization of listed species to be contrary to the purposes of the ESA unless necessary to Excerpts of Shirey et al. 2013!'' As a propagator who reintroduces a native plant into a natural interbreeding population the standard should be do no harm. Equal concern for negative impact to common native plants. Here is a hands on example for myself. Currently, I'm collecting seed and propagating Lilium columbianum from it's natural range northern Calif to mid BC and east to Idaho. Sea-level to Subalpine. Currently about 20 collections, The first year differences were observed in seed morphology, then germination patterns and growth in their Anderson flats. Sometime a pattern appeared that would might support a hypothesis about diversity of this species. My Columbia Gorge collections however do not show these trends. You might explain this by pre-contact anthropogenic reason as the plant is a foragers food source. It will be interesting to observe these plants in their garden bed side by side over next few years. For us, since some customers care about sourcing and others do not we have developed standards for propagation consistent with our understanding of population biology, ie do no harm. I think a protocol for propagation then redistribution into the wild is needed. Wild sourced seed is different from garden grown collections. I think the ideal standard should be - to only redistribute plants that have been vegetatively propagated from these wild ss collections. So far as zone migration via climate change we have standards for zone movement in US and Canada. We sell farm grown seed of a few plant species for reintroduction. These clients specify monitoring and separation from neighboring pollen sources. I think this should be a minimum standard for reintroduction. Here is a link to an interesting article about assisted migration we republished: Best wishes Richard Haard, Propagation Manager Fourth Corner Nurseries Bellingham, Washington, 98226 http://fourthcornernurseries.com/index.html From kimcmich@hotmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 11:22:54 -0800 Greetings, I am the volunteer webmaster/newsletter editor for the San Francisco chapter of the CNPS. Much like the PBS, the CNPS is a mix of many members - both reasonable, rational and realistic and not - and their policies reflect this. In the case of their opposition to growing rare natives, there are a few concerns there that are valid. In the past, CalTRans (in what was an admirable degree of awareness for its day) seeded the roadsides/spoilage of its construction projects with native plant seeds. A good thing, except that CalTrans acquired its seed from centralized sources that therefore offered seed of only a single regional strain. One result is that along many highways in northern California, there is a dark orange variety of bush monkey flower (Mimulus aurantiacus) that is actually only native to southern California. In the case of monkey flower, the dark flowers slowly fade to a normal golden as you move away from these roadsides - but some populations are in areas where monkey flower was not previously established and here you have an invasive native! Monkey flower is a common plant and in no danger of CalTrans' previous mistakes causing it existential harm anywhere in its range. But this kind of problem is one reason for CNPS's general opposition to growing non-local varieties in California - of which opposition to growing rarities is a more specific case. I am not compelled by this line of thinking to agree with CNPS general opposition to ex-situ cultivation of non-local plants (both rare and not) - but it isn't all motivated by bureaucratic power grabs. -| From: Lamon Ready Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:07:46 -0500 WELL SPOKE ! > > I have had more dealings with the self-appointed controllers of rare plants than I'd like to remember. I find their arguments devoid of any logic and find their arrogance disappointing. First, if anyone believes that climate changes, then the least effective method of conserving a rare plant would be in situ conservation. Propagation and widespread distribution is far more logical. While in situ conservation makes us feel good and may be fine in the short term, it really isn't a good long term conservation strategy. > > I dealt with the "preserve this ideal point in time because it makes me feel worthy" plant crowd when serving an 8-year term with on our NC Rare Plant Scientific Committee. I once mentioned propagating the rare native Echinacea laevigata and the purists on the committee immediately threw up the standard response....the lunacy of genetic contamination if plants are planted near the a conservation site. Correct me if I'm wrong, but few plants would exist today without genetic exchange between populations, since as we all know, genetic bottlenecks usually lead to long term population decline and reductions in adaptability. The US has been glaciated 17 times, during which plants were moved all around the continent. It is this constant movement that keeps populations reinvigorated, as opposed to the isolation that exists now as natural distributions have been interrupted by humans. Also, would it not be worse on a natural population of Echinacea laevigata if a homeowner pl an > ted the commonly sold Echinacea purpurea near the preserve since echinaceas are notorious cross breeders? Even this, according to Dr. Rob Griesbach of the USDA would be a good idea, since according to him, the most efficient way to preserve to genetics is to create hybrids since these store all of the genetics from several parents in a single offspring. The entire notion of preserving rare plant genetics is actually a modus operandi to preserve the flow of grant money to fund people with this myopic view of nature. > > I also like to bring up to the plant conservation idealists...why are you preserving a rare plant? Most plants are rare because they are poorly adaptable..often existing in a very specialized, limited size ecosystem. It seems to me that these plants were destined by nature to go extinct, if you consider historical climate change part of nature. > > Finally, if the plant is not going to be used by humans, what is the point of preservation, if you limit human access and use? In my world, any use that has an economic benefit would be desirable, since this is the basis of our human society. Our current system is sadly broken, but the until there is a major backlash against the academic elite of the world, both plants and humans will suffer. Just my two cents. > > Tony Avent > Plant Delights Nursery @ > Juniper Level Botanic Garden > 9241 Sauls Road > Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > USDA Hardiness Zone 7b > email tony@plantdelights.com > website http://www.plantdelights.com > "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Hannon > Sent: Tuesday, November 11, 2014 11:19 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants > > Jane brings up some challenging aspects of enjoying and sharing rare bulbs. > I have been involved in several rare plant restoration projects (not bulbs) > and have an interest in cultivating uncommon bulbs so will add a few > comments on a complicated subject. > > When someone puts forth the idea that there is a supposed risk of > hybridization or genetic erosion of a rare plant held in captivity in > private hands it presupposes, among other possibilities, that 1) the > cultivated plants are being grown in proximity to a wild population that > could be contaminated, or 2) the cultivated material will be used in future > restoration projects to help a particular species. Both of these scenarios > are exceedingly unlikely for any particular species. > > In consideration of conservation issues, why should there be any > restriction on any cultivated rare plant that has been artificially > propagated? This is where CITES, in not regarding nursery grown plants as > procedurally distinct from wild-collected plants, fails to balance the > needs of people and plants. Some plants are at risk from over-collecting > certainly, but the far greater threat to rare plants-- all plants-- is > habitat alteration or destruction. That is a much more difficult problem to > subdue than supposed transgressions of the nursery trade and collectors. > > No one can say what is the harm in gathering a pinch of seed from any > population of plants, rare or otherwise. Since bona fide seed banks > regularly collect seed from populations of endangered species with > scientific guidance we could assume that sampling per se is not harmful. > Should collecting wild material of a rare species for a purpose other than > authorized conservation work be illegal? Who decides what is appropriate > utilization of these resources? > > Only by cultivating rare plants can we learn the skills needed to supply > market demand (e.g., Cypripedium reginae, Tecophilaea cyanocrocus) and at > the same time be able to assist restoration efforts of those same species. > Expert horticultural ability is not in the skillet of the biologists, > ecologists and land managers who take up reintroduction work directly. This > is one of their greatest weaknesses for project success and also an > opportunity to build bridges. At the same time, we should remember that > reintroduction work adheres to strict scientific guidelines for the long > and complex process of outplanting experiments. "Horticultural" material of > rare plants, even when documented, would only very rarely be considered for > such work. In this sense our beloved plants are not conservation material > but they are just as important in their role as the subject of an essential > human endeavor. > > It is debatable if the display or availability of rare or endangered > (listed) plants risks someone being inspired to then go out and take plants > or seeds from the wild. A much more likely and demonstrable outcome is that > cultivated rare plants inspire people to appreciation (apart from growing) > of precious natural resources and raise awareness of the importance of > conservation and stewardship. Those who would advocate that stewardship > should be restricted solely to nature management need to provide a sound > argument for that position and explain where the importance of rarity > trails off and we can then justify the asters, daylilies and liquidambars > all around us. > > "*Do we have a moral duty, then, to abandon **Fritillaria liliacea or > Erythronium elegans to extinction?*" Jane, I think that would > be abandonment of moral duty. > > > Dylan Hannon > > *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an > useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ronmudd1@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ron Mudd Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:31:27 +0000 So disappointing that true enthusiasts are legislated against growing ( or sharing for free! ) local and / or possibly endangered species because of a perceived dilution of genetic viability and / or genetic contamination, when the globally influential multinational ' home and garden improvement stores' are so free to sell ( at massive mark ups!! ) potentially invasive, and most often ' weedy' non native species. Unfortunately the major botanical institutions do not help the situation as, instead of coordinating efforts to rationally resolve this situation, they pretend to go along with the legislation, whilst surreptitiously leaking rare plant material to 'amateur' acquaintances. Then when budgets are slashed, they appeal, to those denied, for financial assistance. Reap and sow ! I am afraid that I really do not understand the viewpoint of the 'environmentalist' that would rather see a population disappear under a housing development / new roadway / power initiative, than to see that population reinforced by genetic material that has come from another population 10 miles down the road !! Its true that I feel better for venting my feelings, but unfortunately simply posting here will change nothing. Unless people take real control of their immediate environment nothing will change :( From petersirises@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:50:04 +0000 I was asking a nurseryman, last week, about the niceties of distributing red list plants. He wouldn't go into it, just said " to propagate like mad, and distribute far and wide to anyone and every one." As he does himself ! The Australians seemed to get things about right with the Wollemia nobilis, and I think that the same has been done with some Clivias. Peter (UK) On 12 November 2014 21:31, Ron Mudd wrote: > So disappointing that true enthusiasts are legislated against growing ( or > sharing for free... > Unfortunately the major > botanical institutions do not help the situation as, instead of > coordinating efforts to rationally resolve this situation, they pretend to > go along with the legislation, whilst surreptitiously leaking rare plant > material to 'amateur' acquaintances. Then when budgets are slashed, they > appeal, to those denied, for financial assistance. Reap and sow ! > > Its true that I feel better for venting my feelings, but unfortunately > simply posting here will change nothing. Unless people take real control of > their immediate environment nothing will change :( > _______________________________________________ > From Tony@plantdelights.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 17:12:15 -0500 I'll add one more comment to spur thought on the "muddying" of genetic populations. The last person to widely promote this idea, although with Homo sapiens, was a prominent WWII German. His idea of genetic superiority of "natives", and the idea of maintaining a pure race has been widely criticized, although pockets of these ethnic purists still exist. Yet, in 2014, this same principle is horticulturally championed by academic ecological purists, who would no doubt be horrified at the thought of anyone objecting to say, inter-racial marriages in humans. People bristle at the term eco-nazi, but isn't that what we're seeing? From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ron Mudd Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:31 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants So disappointing that true enthusiasts are legislated against growing ( or sharing for free! ) local and / or possibly endangered species because of a perceived dilution of genetic viability and / or genetic contamination, when the globally influential multinational ' home and garden improvement stores' are so free to sell ( at massive mark ups!! ) potentially invasive, and most often ' weedy' non native species. Unfortunately the major botanical institutions do not help the situation as, instead of coordinating efforts to rationally resolve this situation, they pretend to go along with the legislation, whilst surreptitiously leaking rare plant material to 'amateur' acquaintances. Then when budgets are slashed, they appeal, to those denied, for financial assistance. Reap and sow ! I am afraid that I really do not understand the viewpoint of the 'environmentalist' that would rather see a population disappear under a housing development / new roadway / power initiative, than to see that population reinforced by genetic material that has come from another population 10 miles down the road !! Its true that I feel better for venting my feelings, but unfortunately simply posting here will change nothing. Unless people take real control of their immediate environment nothing will change :( _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________ From avbeek1@hotmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Aad van Beek Subject: Opposition to Ex-Situ Conservation (was Sharing seeds of rare plants) Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 23:39:04 +0100 Why are it always "amateur" expert native plant horticulturalists, the best botanists and biologist that need to save the plants. I believe plant enthusiast with no degree in any of those fields but equipped with common sense could help out equally well. > On 12 nov. 2014, at 07:53, "Monica Swartz" wrote: > > Jane, after sending my last email about the US Endangered Species Act, I realized I failed to address your question about practical experience with this issue. I have had opposition to any captive cultivation of rare plants from people like the NRDC lecturer you mentioned. In California, for example, the California Native Plant Society takes the position that all such efforts should be restricted to qualified biologists working with the regulatory agencies (see http://www.cnps.org/cnps/archive/ex_situ.php). Does CNPS decide who is qualified? Some of the best botanists I know have no formal degrees in the field, would they qualify? > I started a group of'"amateurs" (all expert native plant horticulturalists) that grow rare plants for producing seed for reintroduction to the wild. The group received some funding from USFWS and was advised by me, a Professor of Conservation Biology. There was enormous opposition to this from various people in the environmental community that I still fail to understand. Even a botanist working for the state wildlife agency vehemently opposed the group. Many of our members dropped out of the projects in horror at the reactions. > I have worked with many USFWS biologists and all believed that without "nonprofessional" engagement in conservation, we have little chance of avoiding extinction of many rare plants. I have not found that this belief is held by all state wildlife biologists or conservation NGOs. > monica > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Smoke water Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:44:19 -0700 I have read that smoke flavoring sold for cooking can be useful in germinating species accustomed to sprouting after fires. I bought some smoke water at a local market and will give it a try. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415832751.7702.YahooMailNeo@web126202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Smoke water Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 14:52:31 -0800 Leo, I've been trying it on my Amaryllis belladonna plant (in the ground since 2005, not one bloom yet in spite of lusty annual growth). Since flower buds in this species are said to form two years in advance, I'll have to wait a while. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CCE3FD38615B-DD0-14772@webmail-va216.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: CITES and lunacy Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 18:03:25 -0500 I also find this discussion of sharing rare plant seeds and CITES, etc quite interesting, and of course infuriating at the same time. Let me start with CITES. In principle, it is supposed to stop trafficking of rare animals and plants from wild sources, and that is an admirable goal. But the folks that enforce it often make no distinction between cultivated, artificially propagated material (though they do downgrade restrictions on seed and tissue cultures, I believe) and wild stuff. As to what happens to seized materials, from my BG experiences some years ago, yes, plants that are seized can be sent to a BG, but the BG may not do anything with them other than grow them, although it may distribute propagations from them IIRC. Keep in mind that by the time the plants are received by the bg they are often dead or damaged beyond recovery. Some tough ones, however, may arrive in decent condition. Now as a desert plant curator, what did I see in these seized shipments? Some times it did consist of interesting obviously wild collected cacti or other succulents which were worth incorporating into the collection but more often it was garbage, like the time we got a seized shipment of grafted multicolored gymnocalyciums from Vietnam. Or hybrid Christmas cactus. It didn't matter, they were cacti and therefore needed CITES permits. Now except for a (common) species of Rhipsalis found in Africa, no species in the Cactaceae is native to the Old World, so why would these man made hybrids/mutations be treated the same as wild collected plants? Theoretically the bg could not throw them away until they "died". Of course, things do "die" if they never get water or potted up, and to be honest no one is checking but still, the concept is ridiculous. As for trade in seed of cultivated rare plants, the scientific problems some organizations have with it, mainly native plant "purists", are greatly overshadowed by the degree of habitat destruction and anthropogenic climate change that together have pushed us into the 6th great mass extinction since the Animalia and, later, Plantae, evolved. We as a species are the cause of this one. It is a problem that will only accelerate in the near future. I teach AP Environmental Science so I have seen the stats and the data, and it isn't looking good. The problem is so bad that to worry about "genetic purity" and the harm of hybridization is minor compared to the larger issues facing rare plants. A hybrid which captures some of the original gene pool is better than no genetic remnant of a species at all after it habitat is wiped out. While it is true that invasive species are a concern everywhere, it also is the case that most introduced plants either do not naturalize or if they do they often become well integrated into natural communities without overpowering the natives. The ones that do overwhelm are a serious problem, and biocontrols are probably the only good way to deal with them so that their populations are subject to the same checks that native species usually have. But there are some native species that can also overwhelm, poison ivy and black locust being good examples of plants that would be considered invasive in their home ranges if they weren't actually native. In the long term, it is quite possible that biodiversity may be enhanced by the addition of new species as they evolve into different species over time, specifically in the depauperate glaciated floras of North America and Eurasia. I don't think this is true, however, for species rich floras like Australia and South Africa. It would be wise for horticulturalists to note invasive tendencies of new introductions and to be careful not to introduce them into areas where they are likely to be a problem such as local biodiversity hotspots like in parts of California and Florida. As for actual plant/seed trading, I think each person has to make up their own mind about what is right. I personally see no harm and great benefit in distributing rare species far and wide, as a hedge against their likely extinction in the wild due to habitat destruction or, later on, climate change. I also think more folks should dedicate a refrigerator or freezer to preserving seeds of such plants, either can greatly extend the viability of most seeds. Would that someone had thought of that a few decades ago when the brightly colored cultivars (selections from a wild population that is now a developed area in Mexico) of Phlox mesoleuca were around? They all disappeared from cultivation as far as I know save a white one I have seen in someones garden. Where are the bright yellow and red ones that were commercially propagated back in the 80s? Folks who work for botanic gardens are by their nature more restricted in what they can do because they are under greater scrutiny than ordinary folks and things like the Biodiversity Convention (that gave rise to the concept that nations own their plant and animal species and that they should be "compensated" if they are used for profitable purposes outside the country--a fine concept in principle but utterly impractical in reality) have to be taken seriously by them, whether they agree or not with the Convention. Individual gardeners have more leeway than official organizations simply because the governments of most nations have better things to do than to track down people growing rare plants of cultivated origin. So I think it would be prudent not to put oneself in possible jeopardy by sending all your rare CITES or other listed plants to PBS or other public plant/seedlists for distribution, but rather do propagate whatever is rare and get it out to as many folks as you can who also share concern for the loss of plant species and wish to do what they can in our short lifetimes to preserve a species from extinction. Some of the more attractive endangered plants are great tools for educating the public about the need to preserve habitats whenever possible, but if the public never gets to see nor grow these plants, they remain unconcerned because it is all too abstract for them. Perhaps growing a rare California native in an area of California where it might hybridize with a related nearby species might be an issue, but if you are living in another state or country it shouldn't be an issue at all, unless the species has great invasive potential, which is unlikely for most rare plants. I've read that some folks have purposely planted Venus Fly Traps in bogs/swamps in other states. I think that is a great idea for a truly unique species with a limited natural range that is in danger from timber plantation activities and development in its native range around Wilmington NC. One day it may be those ex situ populations that will be the only "wild" populations of this species, who knows, but it does give the species a better chance at survival as wetland across the south are drained and "developed" and their unique flora (including most sarracenias) goes with them. So I wouldn't worry too much about what we do as individuals to improve the chances of a plant species ultimate survival during our lifetimes, regardless of legislation. The flora and fauna of the world belong to us all, as do genes (the very idea of patenting a naturally occurring gene is truly nuts in my view, and just a ploy by corporations to profit off of what nature created, how can something that already exists be "patented"?). What is more important is that all of us with the knowledge and horticultural skills to help a plant species or two survive through our efforts do so, it is one way that our lives become meaningful in the grand scheme of things. Ernie DeMarie Z 7 NY where my gardens could be considered a refugia for a lot of South African species and some native US ones that are facing or likely to face challenges to their continued survival in their native ranges. -----Original Message----- From: Erik Van Lennep To: pbs Sent: Wed, Nov 12, 2014 12:34 pm Subject: [pbs] CITES and lunacy Following this discussion with great interest. When I was doing a lot more plant exploration than recently (1970's and 1980's) it was standard practice for endangered plants seized at the point of import without CITES papers to be sent to incineration. Endangered animals were euthanised.If the border boys could say, "nope, we didn't let none of them CITES things through", I guess that was 'job well done'. Presumably that has changed a lot since then, but what happens to all the plants and animals which are not taken in by botanic gardens or zoos? CITES is designed by and administered by "bean counters", so applying the letter of the law is what counts to them, not survival of the organisms as individuals, nor the species as a whole. It was started as a broken system, and seriously needs public and vocal discussion leading to a thorough overhaul. erik From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Romneya Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:07:17 -0700 Bob Nold wrote > Seeds of many species said > to "require" fire can be germinated by cold, if the seeds are cold hardy. > Non-bulbous examples are Romneya coulteri and Fremontodendron > californicum. I hadn't found this paper before; it details a lot of experiments on some difficult-to-sprout California chaparral species, including Romneya: http://www.werc.usgs.gov/OLDsitedata/seki/pdfs/ecology3.pdf But, Bob, I couldn't find anything about cold inducing sprouting of Romneya. Care to point me in the right direction? The Sunset Book says it will grow in Sunset zone 13, my zone, but friends here and I have not been able to get fall-planted specimens established well enough to survive the next summer. Nor have I been able to sprout seed. Having seedlings to work with would probably be better than plants growing in a nursery gallon container half-full of pure mulch. Romneya has large underground storage roots so it's obviously a bulb. Leo Martin Zone 9? USDA/13 Sunset Phoenix Arizona USA From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 15:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: I belong here, too Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:13:15 -0700 I have noticed that humans are considered to have evolved here on planet Earth. We are part of the ecosystem. Anything we do is just as natural as any another evolutionary bottleneck. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From penstemon@Q.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4859C1D9B17E408987A11B44037CD135@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Smoke water Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:30:11 -0700 >I have read that smoke flavoring sold for cooking can be useful in germinating species accustomed to sprouting after fires. I bought some smoke water at a local market and will give it a try. I think the actual material which breaks down germination inhibitors is, in the majority of cases, charate. Smoke probably doesn’t come into contact with seeds long enough for anything to happen. Bob _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: Romneya Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:53:11 -0700 >But, Bob, I couldn't find anything about cold inducing sprouting of Romneya. Care to point me in the right direction? The Sunset Book says it will grow in Sunset zone 13, my zone, but friends here and I have not been able to get fall-planted specimens established well enough to survive the next summer. Nor have I been able to sprout seed. Having seedlings to work with would probably be better than plants growing in a nursery gallon container half-full of pure mulch. It's obviously a bulb. There was an article in Sunset several (many?) years ago that rated Romneya hardy for all their zones, which includes me. I think it would never occur to anyone in California that there was an alternate method of germinating seeds which involved subjecting the poor things to below 0 (F) temperatures. I did skim through the paper, which is similar to the ones on arctostaphylos seed germination, except the latter suggest that it's charate, and not smoke, which induces germination. Fifteen minutes of smoke directed toward a single group of seeds seems an unlikely scenario, even in a wildfire. I germinated seeds of R. coulteri years ago, using the outdoor method, and gave the resulting plants to D(enver) BG. I'm pretty sure they lived. All subsequent efforts to establish plants here have been failures, but romneya is notoriously difficult to establish. (I've had plants die the day after being planted.) There was a discussion about germinating romneyas on a mailing list, ages ago. Because somebody, somewhere, had stated that romneyas would only germinate if smoked, then every other statement about their seed germination was obviously false. However, there was someone in Florida who wanted to try germination romneyas, decided to try freezing them, and I got an email from her a year later saying she had a bumper crop of romneyas after storing the seed in the freezer over the winter. Bob From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Wed, 12 Nov 2014 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CCEDBCEB1F7B-DD0-14DF2@webmail-va216.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:13:09 -0500 Very interesting read, I was not aware of some of the useful information in this link. It would suggest there is some degree of rational thinking among some of the officials at least in Fish and Widlife. Still, a hundred dollar permit for a nursery to sell artificially propagated species legally seems a bit excessive, and I don't know if the permit would cover only one sale or one species or is a general permit for all federally listed species grown at the nursery. The latter is not excessive, but the former situations wouldn't make sense from an economic point of view. But at least it appears that individuals are free to trade seed/plants of federally listed species if there is no commercial intent within the US. Ernie DeMarie Z 7 NY where we await the cold front that will bring us our first significant frost of the year by Friday. -----Original Message----- From: Monica Swartz To: pbs Sent: Wed, Nov 12, 2014 1:53 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Jane, the US Endangered Species Act encourages the propagation and distribution of rare and listed species. There is a good discussion of this at http://www.torreyaguardians.org/shirey-2013-excerpts.pdf. You can reassure your friend that he is only helping these plants by propagation and distribution. If he wants to adhere to the strictest interpretation of the law, if he gives cultivated plants or seeds to others (without profit or gain), he is in total adherence to the law and can send them between states. Hope this helps, monica From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <605599DB-BD8C-48E6-880A-48C2AB0E2DE2@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:36:23 -0600 Dear Friends, Sad to say that CITES does little to preserve Endangered Species losses and does more to preserve authority. The Biodiversity Protection Treaty is also a farce because it rarely actually works and results in rare plants moving illegally (by definition) And all too often Botanical Gardens, Federal and State Authorities do everything to preserve their power, authority and ‘expertise’ : often through down right bullying. Jim Mc wrote > Which is why so many of us have learned (often the hard way) that asking for forgiveness is easier than getting permission. I have learned to deny every thing at every level. Who me? What package? Is that a plant? And that’s why I suggest that any distribution of rare plant materials be handled extremely carefully and NOT advertised or distributed to unknown growers. Best You know who. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From othonna@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Sharing sends of rare plants Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:20:53 -0800 As a plantsman I am concerned about issues involving cultivated plants that are grown for enjoyment, study and profit. One could say that "conservation" applies here but it may be a poor word choice. Conservation implies a deliberate effort to keep something going over time and over generations but I do not believe most of us are burdened by such a mission, at least not as a primary goal in growing plants. Sharing plants and relevant information is of tremendous and increasing importance to the societies we live in but our activities may have little or no bearing on conservation as the word is used by scientists and bureaucrats. It seems silly to think that collectors and gardeners and nurseries have anything but a negligible impact on the sort of plant conservation under discussion here. Does anyone have evidence to show that propagating and distributing plants ever brought harm to a rare species? Collecting in the wild has been deleterious in some cases but that is not what we are talking about and it is misleading to conflate rarity per se with horticultural activities. That such confusion is common indicates that the subject is either poorly understood by policy makers or that there has been a deliberate attempt to control the movement of plants under the guise of conservation. The practice of some botanical gardens in interpreting the CBD certainly leave a person with that impression. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From totototo@telus.net Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <5463BBFF.13779.B98889@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Romneya Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 19:58:55 -0800 On 12 Nov 2014, at 16:07, Leo Martin wrote: > Nor have I been able to sprout seed. Judith McLaughlin, the former propagator at Brentwood Bay Nursery near Victoria, successfully grew many pots of romney from seed. She would sow the seed in her normal perlite-rich mix (or maybe that was just a top dressing?), scatter torn up fragments of paper over the flat, and set it alight. This was all done in a big nursery greenhouse. I gather that germination was still somewhat erratic and she would get several waves of germination from each flat. Romneya grows very well in the Victoria area. You sometimes see huge stands of it that have clearly been in place for many decades. Some of these even set viable seed, but not all: are you sure you had viable seed? -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From othonna@gmail.com Wed, 12 Nov 2014 21:17:03 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Romneya Date: Wed, 12 Nov 2014 20:17:57 -0800 "Romneya has large underground storage roots so it's obviously a bulb." Romneya is a perennial with a branched, brittle crown and deep-growing, rather slender perennial roots. The stems are also perennial and green and may be leafy through the dry season. There is nothing resembling a bulb in this plant's morphology. It is no more a geophyte than a goldenrod or an oleander. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From wahoffma@ncsu.edu Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: William Hoffmann Subject: Smoke water Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:42:39 -0500 Some very interesting work has been done to identify how smoke promotes germination. A compound called Karrikinolide that is present in smoke is believed to be the primary factor that breaks seed dormancy. It appears to act similarly to gibberellin or works synergistically with giberellin. It can have an effect at very low concentrations, so not much needs to reach the seed to have an effect. Karrikinolide has been found soil after fire, so it may not be necessary for direct contact between smoke and the seed to have an effect. > I think the actual material which breaks down germination inhibitors is, in > the majority of cases, charate. Smoke probably doesn’t come into contact > with seeds long enough for anything to happen. -- William A. Hoffmann Associate Professor Department of Plant Biology North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695-7612 Phone: (919) 513-7668 http://www4.ncsu.edu/~wahoffma/labhome/LabPage.html _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 03:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <004501cfff32$68981a00$39c84e00$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Smoke water Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 06:10:16 -0500 Below is from Science Dec 23 2010 A Compound from Smoke That Promotes Seed Germination Gavin R. Flematti,1* Emilio L. Ghisalberti,1 Kingsley W. Dixon,2,3 Robert D. Trengove4 Smoke derived from burning plant material has been found to increase germination of a wide range of plant species from Australia, North America, and South Africa (1). We now report the identity of a compound, present in plant- and cellulose-derived smoke, that promotes germination of a variety of smoke-responsive taxa at a level similar to that of plant-derived smoke water. The separation of the bioactive agent was facilitated by bioassay-guided fractionation with Lactuca sativa L. cv. Grand Rapids (2) and two smoke-responsive Australian species, Conostylis aculeata R. Br. (Haemodoraceae) and Stylidium affine Sonder. (Stylidiaceae) (3). Extensive fractionation of the relatively less complex, cellulosederived smoke (from combustion of filter paper) resulted in the isolation of a compound that promotes seed germination (4). The structure of this compound was elucidated from mass spectrometry (MS) and spectroscopic data obtained by 1 H, 13C, and two-dimensional (homonuclear correlation, heteronuclear single-quantum coherence, heteronuclear multi-bond correlation, and nuclear Overhausereffectspectroscopy)nuclearmagnetic resonance (NMR) techniques. Confirmation of the structure as the butenolide 3-methyl-2Hfuro[2,3-c]pyran-2-one (1) (Scheme 1) was achieved by synthesis. The presence of1 in extracts of plantderived smoke was confirmed by gas chromatography–MS analysis. We compared the activity of the synthetic form of the butenolide (1) with that of plant-derived smoke water by testing it at a range of concentrations with the three bioassay species. We compared the activity of the synthetic form of the butenolide (1) with that of plant-derived smoke water by testing it at a range of concentrations with the three bioassay species. The results (Fig. 1) show that1 stimulated the germination of each test species to a level similar to that achieved with plant-derived smoke water. Furthermore, activity is demonstrated at very low concentrations (1 ppb, 109 M). Testing of other smoke-responsive Australian species and smoke-responsive South African (e.g., Syncarpha vestita) and North American (e.g., Emmenanthe penduliflora and Nicotiana attenuata) species has further confirmed the activity of1 (table S1). The butenolide (1) conforms to the necessary ecological attributes of smoke that is produced from fires in natural environments. For example, the butenolide (1) is stable at high temperatures (itsmeltingpointis118°to119°C),water-soluble, active at a wide range of concentrations (1 ppm to 100 ppt), and capable of germinating a wide range of fire-following species. The butenolide is derived from the combustion of cellulose, which, as a component of all plants, represents a universal combustion substrate that would be present in natural fires. Given the broad and emerging use of smoke as an ecological and restoration tool (1), the identification of 1 as a main contributor to the germination-promoting activity of smoke could provide benefits for horticulture, agriculture, mining, and disturbedland restoration. In addition, the mode of action and mechanism by which1 stimulates germination can now be investigated. In this context, it is useful to note that the natural product ()strigol, which promotes the germination of the parasitic weed Striga (5), is active at similar concentrations (109 M) and contains a butenolide moiety and additional conjugated functionality similar to those in1. References and Notes 1. N. A. C. Brown, J. Van Staden, Plant Growth Regul.22, 115 (1997). 2. F. E. Drewes, M. T. Smith, J. Van Staden, Plant Growth Regul. 16, 205 (1995). 3. S. Roche, K. W. Dixon, J. S. Pate,Aust.J.Bot.45, 783 (1997). 4. Materials and methods are available as supporting material on Science Online. 5. S. C. M. Wigchert, B. Zwanenburg, J. Agric. Food Chem. 47, 1320 (1999). 6. We thank L. T. Byrne for assistance with the structural elucidation of the active compound, D. Wege and S. K. Brayshaw for assistance with the synthetic approach, S. R. Turner and D. J. Merritt for assistance with germination trials, and Alcoa World Alumina and Iluka Resources for providing seeds of native species for testing. Supporting Online Material www.sciencemag.org/cgi/content/full/1099944/DC1 Materials and Methods Table S1 4 May 2004; accepted 25 June 2004 Published online 8 July 2004; 10.1126/science.1099944 Include this information when citing this paper. 1 School of Biomedical and Chemical Sciences, 2School of Plant Biology, The University of Western Australia, Crawley, WA 6009, Australia. 3Kings Park and Botanic Garden, West Perth, WA 6005, Australia. 4School of Engineering Science, Murdoch University, Rockingham, WA 6168, Australia. *To whom correspondence should be addressed. Email: gflematt@chem.uwa.edu.au Scheme 1. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From teck11@embarqmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 04:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <004c01cfff38$0a24a960$1e6dfc20$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 06:50:34 -0500 In The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF) we have seen our share of reactionary fervor regarding 'purity' of plant genetics. Our membership doesn't include the most extreme because of our goals to breed the blight resistance genes of the Chinese chestnut into the American. The original plan was to backcross to the BCF3 (15/16 American) and then intercross for homozygosity of the blight resistance genes, leaving us with about 94% American genetics. There are those who think this is a travesty and they go crazy when they hear about the NY chapter's program to insert the wheat rust oxalic oxidase gene into the American chestnut through transgenics. (Cryphonectria parasitica attacks the cambium by killing live cells with oxalic acid and then consuming the dead tissue which actually makes it a saprophyte rather than a parasite. Breaking down the oxalic acid is a defense against this attack.) The interesting response has been that people are more horrified by the transgenics which saves a 100% American chestnut genome than by the hybridization which saves a 94% American genome (actually, it saves ~100% in the population but 94% in the individual). I have often made the same analogy to Hitler as Tony in the reaction of the ignorant to this genetic manipulation. I have also been amazed at the reaction of organic gardeners to transgenics - they will spray Bt on their corn but they won't plant corn with Bt already in it. From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 05:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:35:11 +0000 I have seen on countless occasions botanists of the establishment so to speak, explain that plant extinction is not so important provided there are enough herbarium vouchers of them left. On the other hand contacting scrupleless crap in South America to have them collect wild plants for sale is plain criminal. This under the cynic veil of "plants must be distributed widely". From wahoffma@ncsu.edu Thu, 13 Nov 2014 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: William Hoffmann Subject: Smoke water Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:26:59 -0500 It should be mentioned that Karrikinolide is an alternate name that was adopted for 3-methyl-2Hfuro[2,3-c]pyran-2-one >Confirmation of > the structure as the butenolide 3-methyl-2Hfuro[2,3-c]pyran-2-one > was achieved by synthesis. From teck11@embarqmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 06:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <006201cfff46$8879c8f0$996d5ad0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:34:19 -0500 Correction - I meant backcross to BC3, not BCF3. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Eck Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:51 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants In The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF) we have seen our share of reactionary fervor regarding 'purity' of plant genetics. Our membership doesn't include the most extreme because of our goals to breed the blight resistance genes of the Chinese chestnut into the American. The original plan was to backcross to the BCF3 (15/16 American) and then intercross for homozygosity of the blight resistance genes, leaving us with about 94% American genetics. There are those who think this is a travesty and they go crazy when they hear about the NY chapter's program to insert the wheat rust oxalic oxidase gene into the American chestnut through transgenics. (Cryphonectria parasitica attacks the cambium by killing live cells with oxalic acid and then consuming the dead tissue which actually makes it a saprophyte rather than a parasite. Breaking down the oxalic acid is a defense against this attack.) The interesting response has been that people are more horrified by the transgenics which saves a 100% American chestnut genome than by the hybridization which saves a 94% American genome (actually, it saves ~100% in the population but 94% in the individual). I have often made the same analogy to Hitler as Tony in the reaction of the ignorant to this genetic manipulation. I have also been amazed at the reaction of organic gardeners to transgenics - they will spray Bt on their corn but they won't plant corn with Bt already in it. From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <5464BDDF.1040408@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: species change Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:19:11 +0000 Hi, Vaguely related to the discussion on rare plants. Today's Daily Express carries a story about how much various plants have changed over 200 years [1]. It made me wonder about the merits of recording things like leaf sizes on the wiki as a way of identifying plants; perhaps it is a good reason to record such things. [1] http://tinyurl.com/plants-change original URL http://www.express.co.uk/news/uk/534765/Weeds-evolving-into-bigger-pests-wreck-Britain-s-gardens -- David Pilling North West England From wahoffma@ncsu.edu Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: William Hoffmann Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:49:15 -0500 Tony, As an academic ecologist, I couldn't resist responding to this in good fun. So, if a gardener values the preservation of heirloom varieties, is that person a horti-nazi? Surely you can't be in favor of willy-nilly mixing of populations without reason. When I buy a plant from you, I presume it is of the advertised species, subspecies, locality or variety (now I am not so sure!). In horticulture we may value a specific genotype because of its performance. Similarly, in natural populations, the genotype matters, and there is often evidence of local adaptation (such as summer-dormant and winter-dormant populations of the same species). We can't know how this might be undermined by introgression with other genotypes, so there is reason for at least some caution. On the other hand, I agree that there are many cases where introduction of new genetic diversity is needed to impart disease resistance, to overcome inbreeding issues, etc. Some purists oppose even this, which I think is an irresponsible attitude. Even more so is the resistance to establishment of new populations of rare species, which some purists also oppose. In horticulture we may value specific races or cultivars for the same reason that art collectors value an original painting over an indistinguishable forgery. I don't know what these values tell us about human nature, but it seems to be at the root of some of the more extreme opinions in conservation. Regard, Bill >I'll add one more comment to spur thought on the "muddying" of genetic populations. The last person to widely promote this >idea, although with Homo sapiens, was a prominent WWII German. His idea of genetic superiority of "natives", and the idea >of maintaining a pure race has been widely criticized, although pockets of these ethnic purists still exist. Yet, in 2014, this >same principle is horticulturally championed by academic ecological purists, who would no doubt be horrified at the thought of >anyone objecting to say, inter-racial marriages in humans. People bristle at the term eco-nazi, but isn't that what we're >seeing? On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Tony Avent wrote: > I'll add one more comment to spur thought on the "muddying" of genetic populations. The last person to widely promote this idea, although with Homo sapiens, was a prominent WWII German. His idea of genetic superiority of "natives", and the idea of maintaining a pure race has been widely criticized, although pockets of these ethnic purists still exist. Yet, in 2014, this same principle is horticulturally championed by academic ecological purists, who would no doubt be horrified at the thought of anyone objecting to say, inter-racial marriages in humans. People bristle at the term eco-nazi, but isn't that what we're seeing? > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ron Mudd > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:31 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants > > So disappointing that true enthusiasts are legislated against growing ( or > sharing for free! ) local and / or possibly endangered species because of a > perceived dilution of genetic viability and / or genetic contamination, > when the globally influential multinational ' home and garden improvement > stores' are so free to sell ( at massive mark ups!! ) potentially invasive, > and most often ' weedy' non native species. Unfortunately the major > botanical institutions do not help the situation as, instead of > coordinating efforts to rationally resolve this situation, they pretend to > go along with the legislation, whilst surreptitiously leaking rare plant > material to 'amateur' acquaintances. Then when budgets are slashed, they > appeal, to those denied, for financial assistance. Reap and sow ! > I am afraid that I really do not understand the viewpoint of the > 'environmentalist' that would rather see a population disappear under a > housing development / new roadway / power initiative, than to see that > population reinforced by genetic material that has come from another > population 10 miles down the road !! > Its true that I feel better for venting my feelings, but unfortunately > simply posting here will change nothing. Unless people take real control of > their immediate environment nothing will change :( > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- William A. Hoffmann Associate Professor Department of Plant Biology North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695-7612 Phone: (919) 513-7668 http://www4.ncsu.edu/~wahoffma/labhome/LabPage.html From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1415892133.10825.YahooMailNeo@web126201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:22:13 -0800 Thanks to a donation to the BX by Mary Sue Ittner last year, I obtained a large bulb of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg'. It's been blooming here for about two weeks, and I really like this one. It suggests a low, eight or nine inch shrub, and the flowers are very nice. At first glance it suggests a low, bushy, pink- flowered Linum shrub. The flowers are larger than those of other oxalides I know: does any other species have a larger flower? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 ________________________________ From rarebulbs@suddenlink.net Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5464D244.5050004@suddenlink.net> From: Diana Chapman Subject: Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 07:46:12 -0800 The largest flower I have is O. purpurea 'Pink Giant' with flowers about 4cm across. I also have several large flowered O. obtusa, O. obtusa Blush and O. obtusa Damask Rose are about 3.5cm. In my collection O. hirta Gothenburg is only about average sized comparing it to other species. Diana Telos Rare Bulbs > Thanks to a donation to the BX by Mary Sue Ittner last year, I obtained a large bulb of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg'. It's been blooming here for about two weeks, and I really like this one. It suggests a low, eight or nine inch shrub, and the flowers are very nice. At first glance it suggests a low, bushy, pink- flowered Linum shrub. > The flowers are larger than those of other oxalides I know: does any other species have a larger flower? > > Jim McKenney > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 > > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Romneya Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:52:11 -0700 > It is no more a geophyte than > a goldenrod or an oleander. I was being facetious, and I knew the ensuing discussion of smoke would be useful. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From xerantheum@gmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Nhu Nguyen Subject: Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:09:10 -0600 But it has the absolute largest bulb of any Oxalis I've ever seen. Mary Sue has been adding more Oxalis photos to the wiki and 'Gothenburg' is a behemoth, measuring 5.5 cm (2") across! I also cooked and ate it one year. It was nutty and starchy but nothing spectacular to report. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Oxalis_hirta Nhu On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 9:46 AM, Diana Chapman wrote: > In my collection O. hirta Gothenburg is only about average sized comparing > it to other species. > From dkramb@badbear.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Dennis Kramb Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:12:21 -0500 I stopped trying to grow exotic rare things when confronted with the reality that I frequently repeatedly kill locally native common things. Iris cristata & Iris verna are native within miles of my home... and yet my garden has been a graveyard to them. "Abandon hope, all ye cristata & verna who enter here." I do grow some super cool rare/endangered species like Iliamna remota, Boltonia decurrens, Silphium wasiotense, Echinacea tennesseensis, Silphium brachiatum, but they're not in the same league as what all y'all are talking about. (Silphium wasiotense is so elusive you can't even find a picture of it on Google.) And they're inclined to thrive in my garden anyway, being regionally native. Dennis in Cincinnati (who doesn't even have an import permit anymore) From msittner@mcn.org Thu, 13 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20141113165834.69A41219C9@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Oxalis storage organs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 08:58:14 -0800 Oxalis storage organs are so different in size as well as form. I find it useful to know what they look like when I am repotting so I decided to make a wiki page and gather all the photos we had of them. Nhu is correct that the bulb of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' is gigantic. It also doesn't increase very much like some of the other Oxalis. On the other hand Oxalis glabra and Oxalis pusilla are really tiny. Having a grid or ruler in the photos makes them easier to compare. Sometimes I added more than one photo of the bulbs of the same species to illustrate that different forms can be different in size and in shape a bit too. That is certainly true of forms of Oxalis purpurea, Oxalis flava, Oxalis hirta. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/OxalisStorage If anyone has photos of the storage organs of species we have on the wiki already but are missing photos of the storage organs, send them to me and I'll add them. Oxalis bowiei also has big pink flowers and in a good year like this one is very dazzling. Mary Sue From Tony@plantdelights.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tony Avent Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 12:17:22 -0500 Bill: Thanks for chiming in to this great discussion. I don't think any of us have a problem if a person wants to keep a "true strain", but we do have a problem with the government restricting what we grow and share in the name of genetic purity. Again...how would this fly bureaucrats thought the same way about people....that's right, they did...it was called segregation. I grew up in the 1960s and had my fill of people talking about genetic purity of the human race and why it was important. So, how did that work out for the human race now we're a thoroughly mixed species? Even recent studies of prehistoric man show very early mixing of homids. Would Homo sapiens exist today without this genetic mixing? By the way, heirloom plants are either clones or open pollinated varieties, so the later is always subject to cross pollination outside of a controlled environment. For our niche market, we go through extraordinary means to keep strains "pure." This is done for people like us who place a high value on such. The reason we spend so much time botanizing in the wild is exactly for the reasons you stated...we put a high value on population variances and feel that these should be selected, evaluated, and shared as widely as possible. We are, however, but a miniscule segment of society and we wouldn't dare say that everyone should do as we do. I'm not sure of anyone who advocates "willy nilly" mixing populations, but for the sake of an argument, why is that truly bad? Is it really a problem for anyone except folks with control issues? That being said, I find it sad that some people need to have the "right" to impose their values on the rest of society. It's all about some people assuming their values are "right" and others aren't. From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of William Hoffmann Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 9:49 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Tony, As an academic ecologist, I couldn't resist responding to this in good fun. So, if a gardener values the preservation of heirloom varieties, is that person a horti-nazi? Surely you can't be in favor of willy-nilly mixing of populations without reason. When I buy a plant from you, I presume it is of the advertised species, subspecies, locality or variety (now I am not so sure!). In horticulture we may value a specific genotype because of its performance. Similarly, in natural populations, the genotype matters, and there is often evidence of local adaptation (such as summer-dormant and winter-dormant populations of the same species). We can't know how this might be undermined by introgression with other genotypes, so there is reason for at least some caution. On the other hand, I agree that there are many cases where introduction of new genetic diversity is needed to impart disease resistance, to overcome inbreeding issues, etc. Some purists oppose even this, which I think is an irresponsible attitude. Even more so is the resistance to establishment of new populations of rare species, which some purists also oppose. In horticulture we may value specific races or cultivars for the same reason that art collectors value an original painting over an indistinguishable forgery. I don't know what these values tell us about human nature, but it seems to be at the root of some of the more extreme opinions in conservation. Regard, Bill >I'll add one more comment to spur thought on the "muddying" of genetic populations. The last person to widely promote this >idea, although with Homo sapiens, was a prominent WWII German. His idea of genetic superiority of "natives", and the idea >of maintaining a pure race has been widely criticized, although pockets of these ethnic purists still exist. Yet, in 2014, this >same principle is horticulturally championed by academic ecological purists, who would no doubt be horrified at the thought of >anyone objecting to say, inter-racial marriages in humans. People bristle at the term eco-nazi, but isn't that what we're >seeing? On Wed, Nov 12, 2014 at 5:12 PM, Tony Avent wrote: > I'll add one more comment to spur thought on the "muddying" of genetic populations. The last person to widely promote this idea, although with Homo sapiens, was a prominent WWII German. His idea of genetic superiority of "natives", and the idea of maintaining a pure race has been widely criticized, although pockets of these ethnic purists still exist. Yet, in 2014, this same principle is horticulturally championed by academic ecological purists, who would no doubt be horrified at the thought of anyone objecting to say, inter-racial marriages in humans. People bristle at the term eco-nazi, but isn't that what we're seeing? > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ron Mudd > Sent: Wednesday, November 12, 2014 4:31 PM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants > > So disappointing that true enthusiasts are legislated against growing ( or > sharing for free! ) local and / or possibly endangered species because of a > perceived dilution of genetic viability and / or genetic contamination, > when the globally influential multinational ' home and garden improvement > stores' are so free to sell ( at massive mark ups!! ) potentially invasive, > and most often ' weedy' non native species. Unfortunately the major > botanical institutions do not help the situation as, instead of > coordinating efforts to rationally resolve this situation, they pretend to > go along with the legislation, whilst surreptitiously leaking rare plant > material to 'amateur' acquaintances. Then when budgets are slashed, they > appeal, to those denied, for financial assistance. Reap and sow ! > I am afraid that I really do not understand the viewpoint of the > 'environmentalist' that would rather see a population disappear under a > housing development / new roadway / power initiative, than to see that > population reinforced by genetic material that has come from another > population 10 miles down the road !! > Its true that I feel better for venting my feelings, but unfortunately > simply posting here will change nothing. Unless people take real control of > their immediate environment nothing will change :( > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- William A. Hoffmann Associate Professor Department of Plant Biology North Carolina State University Raleigh, NC, 27695-7612 Phone: (919) 513-7668 http://www4.ncsu.edu/~wahoffma/labhome/LabPage.html _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki ________________________________ From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415900809.19187.YahooMailNeo@web186101.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Oxalis storage organs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:46:49 +0000 >size and in shape a bit too. That is certainly true of forms of >Oxalis purpurea, Oxalis flava, Oxalis hirta. >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/OxalisStorage > I have 2 pots with both yellow and pink flowers (and very different leaves). Must try and separate out the hirta and flava as they go dormant next year. Not a good idea to repot both at the same time. Both increase readily.   Great plants in the daytime but useless to take to evening meetings when the flowers are closed.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish From bonaventure@optonline.net Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <727deabd.c770b.149aa5091e2.Webtop.59@optonline.net> From: BO MAGRYS Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:00:47 -0500 (EST) In this regard of cultivated species changing so much - line bred orchids (staying within the species and not hybridized often no longer resemble their wild ancestors. The flowers are larger and bulkier and may no longer be suitable for their natural pollinators, instead now evolving to suit the tastes of their artificial pollinators, man. In addition with every generation the seeds germinate more easily and growth is more vigorous and consistent - not in synch with the seasons and vagaries of ancestral climates which may demand some dormancy. Bonaventure From penstemon@Q.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1518C15D534440A997B27C7334C0F0D6@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:01:36 -0700 I don't think any of us have a problem if a person wants to keep a "true strain", but we do have a problem with the government restricting what we grow and share in the name of genetic purity. Too much emphasis on "the government", here, I think. Take, for example, state governments, and, in particular, the Colorado Department of Agriculture. Euphorbia myrsinites is listed as a noxious weed. (You can see it growing along the road in one or two places.) Whose idea was it to list it? I doubt that anyone in the CDoA has the inclination to drive around the state looking for "invasive exotics" to include on their list (for the purpose of, say, increasing their power and authority). Undoubtedly, someone saw the euphorbia, totally freaked out, and contacted the CDoA. I would suggest that the government, state or federal, is simply enforcing, more or less, something that someone with influence, and not in the government, thought was a good idea. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: Oxalis storage organs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 10:20:17 -0800 Mary Sue, Thanks for all your work on Oxalis & corp sharing so many bulbs on the BX. Karl Church Dinuba, CA zone 9b On Nov 13, 2014 8:58 AM, "Mary Sue Ittner" wrote: > Oxalis storage organs are so different in size as well as form. I find it > useful to know what they look like when I am repotting so I decided to make > a wiki page and gather all the photos we had of them. Nhu is correct that > the bulb of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' is gigantic. It also doesn't increase > very much like some of the other Oxalis. On the other hand Oxalis glabra > and Oxalis pusilla are really tiny. Having a grid or ruler in the photos > makes them easier to compare. Sometimes I added more than one photo of the > bulbs of the same species to illustrate that different forms can be > different in size and in shape a bit too. That is certainly true of forms > of Oxalis purpurea, Oxalis flava, Oxalis hirta. > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/OxalisStorage > > If anyone has photos of the storage organs of species we have on the wiki > already but are missing photos of the storage organs, send them to me and > I'll add them. > > Oxalis bowiei also has big pink flowers and in a good year like this one > is very dazzling. > > Mary Sue > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Thu, 13 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CD8866A762F9-12C0-1B000@webmail-va144.sysops.aol.com> From: Carolyn Craft via pbs Subject: Oxalis storage organs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:40:15 -0500 Thank you, this chart is not just informative but beautiful. It is so nice of you to do all this work and share it with everyone. Carolyn . -----Original Message----- From: Mary Sue Ittner To: pbs Sent: Thu, Nov 13, 2014 8:58 am Subject: [pbs] Oxalis storage organs Oxalis storage organs are so different in size as well as form. I find it useful to know what they look like when I am repotting so I decided to make a wiki page and gather all the photos we had of them. Nhu is correct that the bulb of Oxalis hirta 'Gothenburg' is gigantic. It also doesn't increase very much like some of the other Oxalis. On the other hand Oxalis glabra and Oxalis pusilla are really tiny. Having a grid or ruler in the photos makes them easier to compare. Sometimes I added more than one photo of the bulbs of the same species to illustrate that different forms can be different in size and in shape a bit too. That is certainly true of forms of Oxalis purpurea, Oxalis flava, Oxalis hirta. http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/OxalisStorage If anyone has photos of the storage organs of species we have on the wiki already but are missing photos of the storage organs, send them to me and I'll add them. Oxalis bowiei also has big pink flowers and in a good year like this one is very dazzling. Mary Sue From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Invasive lists, was Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 13:00:16 -0800 Bob wrote >Take, for example, state governments, and, in particular, the >Colorado Department of Agriculture. Euphorbia myrsinites is listed >as a noxious weed. (You can see it growing along the road in one or >two places.) Whose idea was it to list it? I doubt that anyone in >the CDoA has the inclination to drive around the state looking for >"invasive exotics" to include on their list (for the purpose of, >say, increasing their power and authority). Undoubtedly, someone saw >the euphorbia, totally freaked out, and contacted the CDoA. I had wondered about that species being listed. I grew it here in Oregon and though I had to control its seeding, some of my friends who were gardening on more poorly drained sites couldn't keep it alive. The really crazy one is that Oregon lists, among "potential invasives," Cyclamen coum. It is less enthusiastic here than C. hederifolium, but I imagine someone saw the famous colony of it at Boyd Kline's garden in southern Oregon and "totally freaked out." Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, where we have only a little sleet and ice at the margin of what just covered Bob's Denver garden in masses of snow. From penstemon@Q.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <746E2CBE43A74A3AADB205D4EDEC0638@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Invasive lists, was Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 15:01:20 -0700 >The really crazy one is that Oregon lists, among "potential invasives," Cyclamen coum. It is less enthusiastic here than C. hederifolium, but I imagine someone saw the famous colony of it at Boyd Kline's garden in southern Oregon and "totally freaked out." No Oregon anti-cyclamen people are allowed in my garden, then. C. coum self sows everywhere here. Would that there were a blanket of snow on the garden. Only about 7.5 cm. The temperature dropped from 17C to -22C in about 48 hours. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From mdoming@gmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 14:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <949E3CB9-5F80-45F9-95A4-3E5417926557@gmail.com> From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=EDctor_Hugo_Men=E9ndez_Dom=EDnguez?= Subject: Mexican members Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 16:08:09 -0600 Hi !!! I will like to contact with others mexican PBS members. There are anybody? Regards Victor Menendez Yucatan, Mexico From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Thu, 13 Nov 2014 17:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CDB95E5A8809-DAC-1CB6E@webmail-va142.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 19:30:47 -0500 Genetically modified organisms, including plants, are not inherently bad things, they are the products of technology, which itself has no moral value, good or bad, it is how we use it that makes it good or bad. I think differently about Monsanto, the company that has done a lot of this work and patented it and then turn around and sued farmers who aquire "their" (patented) gene via accidental cross pollination with the neighbors Monsanto GMO crop. Seems to me it should be Monsanto's responsibility to keep "their" genes out of other peoples fields, if they can't do that, oh well. Still there are folks who go crazy over GMOs, I actually was having a heated discussion about this with some teachers in my dept who linked them to all the other ills of the world, but as I said, they are not evil creations in and of themselves. Of course any GMO should be thoroughly tested before it is used/released to ensure no harm is done to ecosystems or the environment, and with some of them such as bt corn there is the possibility it could make the organic pesticide Bacillus thuringensis (the actual BT bacteria, I tell my students it is caterpillar ebola) useless if the selection pressure of crops containing the bt toxin gene increases the frequency of naturally resistant strains of pest species via natural selection pressure. There are strategies to mitigate that, such as the requirement that farmers plant non bt corn so the non resistant pests have a place to live and mix their genes with any resistant ones to prevent the emergence of a resistant pest strain but t hat entails planting land with a crop the farmer knows will be eaten in order to preserve the usefulness of the bt corn nearby. One genetic modification I would love to see is one that would turn the Cape bulb flora into summer growing flora, we'd have such interesting gardens here in the northeast if that was the case. Many summer growing S African bulbs are perfectly hardy here, and that would likely be the case with Cape geophytes if they didn't put their leaves up in winter. Ernie DeMarie Z7 NY where the marigolds made it thru yesterday, but they are cut and ready for students to use in a lab tomorrow -----Original Message----- From: Tim Eck To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Sent: Thu, Nov 13, 2014 8:34 am Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants Correction - I meant backcross to BC3, not BCF3. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Tim Eck Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 6:51 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants In The American Chestnut Foundation (TACF) we have seen our share of reactionary fervor regarding 'purity' of plant genetics. Our membership doesn't include the most extreme because of our goals to breed the blight resistance genes of the Chinese chestnut into the American. The original plan was to backcross to the BCF3 (15/16 American) and then intercross for homozygosity of the blight resistance genes, leaving us with about 94% American genetics. There are those who think this is a travesty and they go crazy when they hear about the NY chapter's program to insert the wheat rust oxalic oxidase gene into the American chestnut through transgenics. (Cryphonectria parasitica attacks the cambium by killing live cells with oxalic acid and then consuming the dead tissue which actually makes it a saprophyte rather than a parasite. Breaking down the oxalic acid is a defense against this attack.) The interesting response has been that people are more horrified by the transgenics which saves a 100% American chestnut genome than by the hybridization which saves a 94% American genome (actually, it saves ~100% in the population but 94% in the individual). I have often made the same analogy to Hitler as Tony in the reaction of the ignorant to this genetic manipulation. I have also been amazed at the reaction of organic gardeners to transgenics - they will spray Bt on their corn but they won't plant corn with Bt already in it. From penstemon@Q.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <00C354EB7AC24C009EA67C03AECA0B58@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:21:38 -0700 >One genetic modification I would love to see is one that would turn the >Cape bulb flora into summer growing flora, we'd have such interesting >gardens here in the northeast if that was the case. Many summer growing S >African bulbs are perfectly hardy here, and that would likely be the case >with Cape geophytes if they didn't put their leaves up in winter. Yes, but then you would have all these geophytes adapted to growing leaves in dry conditions. Gardens in the northeast would be mostly covered in plastic, for which "interesting" might not be the right description. The summer growers are mostly hardy here, too, but water hogs, so banished from the garden. Sigh. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From k.preteroti@verizon.net Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <0B7AFA7C-DB90-484D-BFC6-A19AD42CCB82@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:36:24 -0500 Hello all. I do not know if everyone who recently purchased Scilla madeirensis planted their bulbs yet, but I did. One of mine has just began to produce leaves. What I found interesting is a rather succulent root is popping out of the drainage hole. Similar to an iceberg I bet most of the growth is under ground. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:38:04 -0500 Neat - I'll check mine tomorrow. On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Hello all. I do not know if everyone who recently purchased Scilla > madeirensis planted > their bulbs yet, but I did. One of mine has just began to produce leaves. > What I found interesting is a rather succulent root is popping out of the > drainage hole. Similar to an iceberg I bet most of the growth is under > ground. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs.spiranthes@spamgourmet.com Thu, 13 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <546575C5.2030404@bellsouth.net> From: pbs.spiranthes@spamgourmet.com Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Thu, 13 Nov 2014 22:23:49 -0500 Hello Kathleen, Will you please let me know the name(s) of the Iris species to which you are referring? The federal Endangered Species Act (ESA) lists only Iris lacustris, a federally listed endangered species of Michigan and Wisconsin that is allied to Iris cristata and is completely unrelated to Pacific Coast Iris species. The California Endangered Species Act (CESA) does not list any Iris species at all. Thank you and kind regards. > Kathleen Sayce (/Wed, 12 Nov 2014 08:47:28 PST/) > > I have also had very negative experiences with the California Native > Plant Society, concerning ESA-listed Pacific Coast Iris, even though > the plants were garden grown, and had been so long before this species > was listed. My personal conclusion was, when I had seeds from my own > plants, that I would go ahead and share them to nonprofit seed > exchanges. But I agree, those folks can be quite rabid on the subject! > > Kathleen From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Fri, 14 Nov 2014 01:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <329226671.3305.1415953895560.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g12> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Plant Conservation & GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:31:35 +0100 (CET) Plants have been exchanging genes since there were plants and bacteria to do so. That is a long time! Monsanto etc. have not invented anything. Such lunacy as patenting already existing genes is part of the "ethos" of such daft profit driven mentality. The controls on the results are a laughing stock as regards scientific validity. They are asked to do the tests themselves so of course the results are always vastly in favour so even more profit can be made at the expense of farmers and consumers. I can see that for horticultural purposes GMO's would be extremely interesting! Imagine the genes for cold resistance being introduced to many half-hardy or even tropical plants... I for one would love to grow hardy Araucaria heterophylla! I can see little difference between plant hybridising and gene transference. But it is the lack of independant controls on food crops produced by GM that is the big issue.The companies who produce these plants have absolutely no interest in getting negative results from their testing! I can't see such techniques being of much use in plant conservation. Look what has happened when market forces get to work via selection and hybridising on plants. They all end up as being double, red, continous flowering, cartwheels with no scent as Graham S. Thomas famously remarked many years ago. The horticultural equivalent of grey goo! Maybe true scientists could find a use for GM to help wild populations of plants to survive? But who knows just what the knock-on effects of that would be as the maize story indicates... Surely it is better and simpler to do as at Kew: grow native stock seeds of Cypripedium calceolus to good sized plants and then plant them out at the site where the one last british plant survives? Kew are doing a lot of such work as I hope many other botanical gardens world-wide are too. They don't just sit on their plants as has been suggested, content that they have them in a herbarium. I have helped propagate for my local nature conservancy in Buckinghamshire G.B. (B.B.O.N.T.) many years ago Juniperus communis which is suffering from decline due to lack of seedlings and Salvia pratensis for the same reasons. There were no qualms about collecting seed and cuttings nor reintroducing them back to the original site. I think it is a good idea to keep the extremists out of plant conservation, anywhere for that matter, and let common sense rule. I can see that long grown horticultural stock of rare plants is not ideal for such conservation projects but then if that is all there is then there is no choice. Better that than nothing. I don't agree that we should accept that human activity causing plants to go extinct is acceptable. And that we should just let biodiversity go down the plughole. We need it! The vast palette of genes that is being lost has untold consequences for us and the environement. Mark.   " Genetically modified organisms, including plants, are not inherently bad things, they are the products of technology, which itself has no moral value, good or bad, it is how we use it that makes it good or bad. I think differently about Monsanto, the company that has done a lot of this work and patented it and then turn around and sued farmers who aquire "their" (patented) gene via accidental cross pollination with the neighbors Monsanto GMO crop. Seems to me it should be Monsanto's responsibility to keep "their" genes out of other peoples fields, if they can't do that, oh well. > Still there are folks who go crazy over GMOs, I actually was having a heated discussion about this with some teachers in my dept who linked them to all the other ills of the world, but as I said, they are not evil creations in and of themselves. Of course any GMO should be thoroughly tested before it is used/released to ensure no harm is done to ecosystems or the environment, and with some of them such as bt corn there is the possibility it could make the organic pesticide Bacillus thuringensis (the actual BT bacteria, I tell my students it is caterpillar ebola) useless if the selection pressure of crops containing the bt toxin gene increases the frequency of naturally resistant strains of pest species via natural selection pressure. There are strategies to mitigate that, such as the requirement that farmers plant non bt corn so the non resistant pests have a place to live and mix their genes with any resistant ones to prevent the emergence of a resistant pest strain but t > hat entails planting land with a crop the farmer knows will be eaten in order to preserve the usefulness of the bt corn nearby. > One genetic modification I would love to see is one that would turn the Cape bulb flora into summer growing flora, we'd have such interesting gardens here in the northeast if that was the case. Many summer growing S African bulbs are perfectly hardy here, and that would likely be the case with Cape geophytes if they didn't put their leaves up in winter. > Ernie DeMarie" _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 02:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415956988.58697.YahooMailBasic@web75305.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: Re﹕ Plant Conservation & GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:23:08 +0800 Hello: I wonder that if varieties which are derived from physical and chemical mutagenesis, or somaclonal variation, are acceptable for the people who refuse GMO or prefer heirloom varieties. Because the mutation may introduce the gene which never exist in any creature before. (Most GMOs are using the gene among the creatures at least.) FAO /IAEA Mutant Variety Database http://mvgs.iaea.org/AboutMutantVarities.aspx There are several geophytes genus which have records in the database such as Achimenes sp., Alstroemeria sp., Begonia sp., Canna indica L. ,Curcuma domestica Val., Dahlia sp.,Gladiolus sp., Iris sp.,Lilium sp., Tulipa sp. in the database. Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1415963089.72602.YahooMailNeo@web186106.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:04:49 +0000 >Neat - I'll check mine tomorrow. > >On Thu, Nov 13, 2014 at 8:36 PM, Kenneth wrote: > >> Hello all. I do not know if everyone who recently purchased Scilla >> madeirensis planted >> their bulbs yet, but I did. One of mine has just began to produce leaves. >> What I found interesting is a rather succulent root is popping out of the >> drainage hole. Similar to an iceberg I bet most of the growth is under >> ground.   In the UK they flower and produce seed best if brought into growth in late summer. If I leave it too late and have them flowering in autumn when I have to move them under glass to protect from the first frosts (in a normal year?) they flower OK but I get no seed and the dead flowers get mildew and drop off. They seem to need bees etc. around for pollination. I have tried artificial pollination but I am nowhere as good as the bees who get almost all the flowers setting. I got some seed even with only 1 clone initially. Kew used to get no seed set when they left it late starting. Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 03:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <015b01cffffa$fdb7c5e0$f92751a0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 06:06:06 -0500 It is worth mentioning that the introduction of genetically modified genes into the farmers crop by natural pollinators was not accidental but clearly intentional. I know of no commercial farmers who grow their own seed; but this farmer thought he could snag the patented gene by planting a non-GMO soybean adjacent to a neighbor's GMO soybean and capturing the genes from the pollen. As horrendous as this court decision seems, it would not have gone that way if the intent were not there. Tim -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Ernie DeMarie via pbs Sent: Thursday, November 13, 2014 7:31 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs I think differently about Monsanto, the company that has done a lot of this work and patented it and then turn around and sued farmers who aquire "their" (patented) gene via accidental cross pollination with the neighbors Monsanto GMO crop. Seems to me it should be Monsanto's responsibility to keep "their" genes out of other peoples fields, if they can't do that, oh well. From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1415968944.54788.YahooMailBasic@web75302.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:42:24 +0800 Hello: I wonder that if there were GMO ornamental geophytes commercially available? (The human introduced bees should not be treated as natural pollinators since they are not the native species and populations of most area. They should be treated as competitors for the Carrying Capacity of Environment of the native natural pollinators.) Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 05:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <016201d0000c$a79fa710$f6def530$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:12:32 -0500 It's unlikely - at least in the USA where it costs tens of millions to pass all the legal tests. So far, only commercial crops have been released. There is an interesting event coming up where cis-genic potatoes were "genetically engineered" introducing potato genes into potatoes artificially. Transgenic potatoes were already rejected by McDonalds but they have yet to decide on cis-genic potatoes not obtained by traditional breeding. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Fierycloud Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 7:42 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Hello: I wonder that if there were GMO ornamental geophytes commercially available? (The human introduced bees should not be treated as natural pollinators since they are not the native species and populations of most area. They should be treated as competitors for the Carrying Capacity of Environment of the native natural pollinators.) Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From k.preteroti@verizon.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <176FF012-1019-4540-95E8-1C27ADF9FB7D@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:28:09 -0500 Fierycloud I feel compelled to come to the defense of the Honey Bee. While it is true that the honey bee is not native to North America where I live I am not aware of any studies that show the honey bee is causing the demise of native pollinators. Habitat destruction is the number one problem followed by pesticides.They are above ground cavity dwellers and do not compete with any other pollinators for housing. Bumble bees are ground cavity dwellers. They are opportunistic nectar and pollen gatherers and nonaggressive at the flower. Native pollinators generally work flowers in weather conditions where the honey bee stays at home. I do not believe a Carrying Capacity of the Environment for pollinators has been established. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 07:38:24 -0800 The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of killing the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating the use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of land which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as severe. -Travis From xerics@cox.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <003501d00024$0d086120$27192360$@net> From: "richard" Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:00:02 -0800 I believe that the worst problem with GMO treated food crops is that they come to your table with residual pesticides (roundup) and their by products. I do not want to eat roundup! Richard Vista, CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 7:38 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of killing the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating the use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of land which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as severe. -Travis From teck11@embarqmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <01c101d00029$9ab1ff40$d015fdc0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:39:44 -0500 I'm not certain I understand any of what you wrote: None of the transgenic pesticides target microfauna and certainly not in soil (that I know of). Prior to RoundUp, we were losing billions of tons of topsoil a year to erosion caused by tillage. It has no effect in soils and is destroyed by native soil bacteria. And yes, nearly all commercial and home garden crops are aliens which necessarily displace natives. The trend started about 15,000 years ago and led to civilization. Why would anybody make a pollen sterile crop that would have no yield? It sort of defeats the purpose of a crop. Tim -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 10:38 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of killing the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating the use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of land which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as severe. -Travis From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:43:14 -0500 I agree with Tim. I'll throw something else in the mix. Even just the sun's UV rays can literally "genetcally modify" organisms - no? On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 11:39 AM, Tim Eck wrote: > I'm not certain I understand any of what you wrote: > None of the transgenic pesticides target microfauna and certainly not in > soil (that I know of). > Prior to RoundUp, we were losing billions of tons of topsoil a year to > erosion caused by tillage. It has no effect in soils and is destroyed by > native soil bacteria. > And yes, nearly all commercial and home garden crops are aliens which > necessarily displace natives. The trend started about 15,000 years ago and > led to civilization. > Why would anybody make a pollen sterile crop that would have no yield? It > sort of defeats the purpose of a crop. > Tim > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 10:38 AM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs > > The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have > pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of > killing > the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating > the > use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of > land > which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom > line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. > > If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made > them > pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination > of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they > don't > allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required > to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. > See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly > interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. > > That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of > (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are > grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as > severe. > > -Travis > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:50:17 -0500 Round up is not a pesticide! Bea --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 08:53:59 -0800 If you are a "boomer" as I am, you ate far worse herbicides & pesticides than Roundup in your youth. If you're still alive & healthy the long term effects must not be as bad as predicted by the emotionally motivated. Humans have been genetically manipulating both plants & animals for centuries for better or worse. As our technology has progressed so has the level & variety of that manipulation. Only time will tell if we did ourselves in with the changes we have produced. Karl Church Dinuba, CA zone 9b On Nov 14, 2014 8:00 AM, "richard" wrote: > I believe that the worst problem with GMO treated food crops is that they > come to your table with residual pesticides (roundup) and their by > products. > I do not want to eat roundup! > Richard > Vista, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 7:38 AM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs > > The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have > pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of > killing > the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating > the > use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of > land > which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom > line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. > > If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made > them > pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination > of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they > don't > allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required > to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. > See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly > interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. > > That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of > (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are > grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as > severe. > > -Travis > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From rjrussell@cot.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <51D76C304AE8468C98B0575A59D97AAB@DELLPC> From: "Joey Russell" Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 09:28:28 -0800 Yikes, unless you're growing silage! Joey -----Original Message----- From: Tim Eck Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 8:39 AM To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs I'm not certain I understand any of what you wrote: None of the transgenic pesticides target microfauna and certainly not in soil (that I know of). Prior to RoundUp, we were losing billions of tons of topsoil a year to erosion caused by tillage. It has no effect in soils and is destroyed by native soil bacteria. And yes, nearly all commercial and home garden crops are aliens which necessarily displace natives. The trend started about 15,000 years ago and led to civilization. Why would anybody make a pollen sterile crop that would have no yield? It sort of defeats the purpose of a crop. Tim -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 10:38 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they have pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects of killing the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, facilitating the use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace enormous plots of land which was once home to thousands of species, including geophytes. Bottom line is the crops destroy biodiversity all around them. If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility patents. Organic seed growers are required to have their crops tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some highly interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware of (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure they are grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the environment is as severe. -Travis From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:11:12 -0800 The one possible downside of the presence of honeybees is their capacity to spread mites, viruses and disease to native bee populations. This situation is exasperated by the higher concentrations of honeybees in parts of the country where large apiaries operate (Midwestern states?) There is speculation that in areas where there are high concentrations of hb hives and little available forage the honeybees do actively compete with native species. I do not believe there has been too much research on this though. That being said, I love honeybees and possess a hive myself. For the past two years I have been recording observations and collecting data on what plants are pollinated by what, including many bulbs. I will someday share my studies here. If anyone is interested, I would like to gather data on the pollinators that visit various geophytes in other parts of the country (or world). What I would like is an entire years observations on what flower species (variety, whatnot) is visited by what insect (or bird, etc.) at what date (at least what month). If anyone is interested or wants more details please send me a private email. -Travis Owen Rogue River, OR From erik@tepuidesign.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erik Van Lennep Subject: Taking sides on GMO's Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 19:22:15 +0100 Fascinating to watch the polarity build every time GMOs are brought up. It gets political and emotional so quickly, and neither filters well for logic. I have a background in plant breeding,ecology, biology, sustainability and policy, for what it's worth. For me the largest problem around GMOs is political/economic, which comes down to power. A very rich industry is buying politicians to write policy supporting the same industry in evading due process and objective, independent assessment. And it's no wonder. If they were made to adhere to the same constraints put into place to protect the public in other situations, they would have a much harder time making their profits. The scale of this industry is so massive, and the *de-facto *monopolies they have established (in direct contravention of laws prohibiting monopolies) so powerful, that they now tell us what to eat. And I am sorry for anyone who believes this is "conspiracy theory",but that's a political / emotional response which would collapse if you just did some independent research to verify it for yourselves. It's all out there, but you won't find it in the mainstream media, because that was bought long ago by members of the same 1% who are stockholders in the GMO giants. You have to dig deeper, but that shouldn't be too much of a challenge to bulb fanciers accustomed to searching out rare seeds. The second issue is biological. It has to do with the vectors used to insert the foreign genes. These are various specialized and modified virus and bacteria which are adapted to transfer their own DNA into host organisms. When it is swapped for the DNA of the developer's choice, they carry out their job. The problem is that neither the vectors nor the foreign DNA stays put. It has been shown to migrate into other plants, and not only by pollen transfer. In fact lateral transfer (between similar as well as unrelated organisms) of DNA in Nature turns out to be more common that was once believed. But under natural conditions organisms have more capable filters to protect themselves. Again, if this sounds incredible to anyone, do your homework and see for yourself. So yes, GMO technology is massively different from what occurs in Nature, as well as what occurs in more traditional hybridization and plant selection in the field or under glass. And the wrong people have been left in charge of the process, and are doing it for all the wrong reasons. Erik From plantsman@comcast.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <20141114182855.EB9D621938@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:28:30 -0800 One of the tiring rants of the participants in the marketing scheme euphemistically called "organic" is their self proclaimed oppression for having their very special products "contaminated" with GMO pollen. For the past few years there has been an analogous legal situation in commercial horticulture in California dealing with so-called pollen contamination. See who you side with: What if I decide to commercially grow seedless mandarins, sometimes sold in the U.S. under the trademark name Cuties? Should I be able to demand that all my neighbors within a certain distance of my citrus orchard must now remove all their pollen producing citrus plants in order to prevent pollination of my mandarins, all because I want to profit from growing higher value seedless citrus fruit? What about the bee keepers? In the past five years, seedless mandarin farmers in California have threatened legal action against bee keepers over the "trespass" of bees pollinating their mandarin orchards. http://www.nbclosangeles.com/news/weird/Tangerine-growers-tell-beekeepers-to-buzz-off.html By organic farming logic, the mandarin growers must be correct when they argue that bee keepers hurt farmers. I don't agree. My understanding is that the arbitrary USDA rules defining "organic" recently changed yet again late last year, this time to reflect the reality of wind transported pollen in agriculture, just as the standards were recently lowered for "organic" meat and dairy products in most of California to accommodate our recent drought. In reality, in both of these examples, the end consumer products never changed at all in any meaningful way. And too bad for the seedless mandarin growers who can't redefine the word "seedless" to fit their needs when those malicious trespassing bees show up. Nathan At 07:38 AM 11/14/2014, you wrote: > If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have > made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to > prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent > seed formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility > patents. Organic seed growers are required to have their crops > tested yearly for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. > >-Travis From markemazer@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Mark Mazer Subject: Taking sides on GMO's Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:37:01 -0500 >GMO technology is massively different from what occurs in Nature, Really? The most accredited theory at present about the origin of mitochondria in eukaryote cells is endosymbiosis . Mark Mazewr Hertford, NC USDA 8a, we hope, and surrounded by fields of GMO cotton, corn and soy On Fri, Nov 14, 2014 at 1:22 PM, Erik Van Lennep wrote: > Fascinating to watch the polarity build every time GMOs are brought up. It > gets political and emotional so quickly, and neither filters well for > logic. > > I have a background in plant breeding,ecology, biology, sustainability and > policy, for what it's worth. > > For me the largest problem around GMOs is political/economic, which comes > down to power. A very rich industry is buying politicians to write policy > supporting the same industry in evading due process and objective, > independent assessment. And it's no wonder. If they were made to adhere to > the same constraints put into place to protect the public in other > situations, they would have a much harder time making their profits. The > scale of this industry is so massive, and the *de-facto *monopolies they > have established (in direct contravention of laws prohibiting monopolies) > so powerful, that they now tell us what to eat. > > And I am sorry for anyone who believes this is "conspiracy theory",but > that's a political / emotional response which would collapse if you just > did some independent research to verify it for yourselves. It's all out > there, but you won't find it in the mainstream media, because that was > bought long ago by members of the same 1% who are stockholders in the GMO > giants. You have to dig deeper, but that shouldn't be too much of a > challenge to bulb fanciers accustomed to searching out rare seeds. > > The second issue is biological. It has to do with the vectors used to > insert the foreign genes. These are various specialized and modified virus > and bacteria which are adapted to transfer their own DNA into host > organisms. When it is swapped for the DNA of the developer's choice, they > carry out their job. > > The problem is that neither the vectors nor the foreign DNA stays put. It > has been shown to migrate into other plants, and not only by pollen > transfer. In fact lateral transfer (between similar as well as unrelated > organisms) of DNA in Nature turns out to be more common that was once > believed. But under natural conditions organisms have more capable filters > to protect themselves. Again, if this sounds incredible to anyone, do your > homework and see for yourself. > > So yes, GMO technology is massively different from what occurs in Nature, > as well as what occurs in more traditional hybridization and plant > selection in the field or under glass. And the wrong people have been left > in charge of the process, and are doing it for all the wrong reasons. > > Erik > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CE517451C391-630-21331@webmail-vm028.sysops.aol.com> From: Michael Loos via pbs Subject: Taking sides on GMO's Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:39:33 -0500 As someone with a similar background, I concur - no conspiracy theory here. I second your thoughts Erik. Michael And I am sorry for anyone who believes this is "conspiracy theory",but that's a political / emotional response which would collapse if you just did some independent research to verify it for yourselves. It's all out there, but you won't find it in the mainstream media, because that was bought long ago by members of the same 1% who are stockholders in the GMO giants. You have to dig deeper, but that shouldn't be too much of a challenge to bulb fanciers accustomed to searching out rare seeds. From silkie@frontiernet.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <011d01d0003a$c9d9ed30$5d8dc790$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 10:42:47 -0800 Hmmm. Self-selecting bias perhaps. The bigger picture tends to tell a different story about the herbicides and pesticides of our youth. Also, take a look at the birth defects in SW Oregon from the aerial spraying of herbicides. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karl Church Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 8:54 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs If you are a "boomer" as I am, you ate far worse herbicides & pesticides than Roundup in your youth. If you're still alive & healthy the long term effects must not be as bad as predicted by the emotionally motivated. Humans have been genetically manipulating both plants & animals for centuries for better or worse. As our technology has progressed so has the level & variety of that manipulation. Only time will tell if we did ourselves in with the changes we have produced. Karl Church Dinuba, CA zone 9b On Nov 14, 2014 8:00 AM, "richard" wrote: > I believe that the worst problem with GMO treated food crops is that > they come to your table with residual pesticides (roundup) and their > by products. > I do not want to eat roundup! > Richard > Vista, CA > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of T O > Sent: Friday, November 14, 2014 7:38 AM > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Subject: Re: [pbs] GMOs > > The problem with GMOs is absolutely the plants themselves, when they > have pesticides built into their genes which have the unwanted effects > of killing the micro fauna in the soil. "Round-up ready" is no better, > facilitating the use of much herbicide. Monocrops in general displace > enormous plots of land which was once home to thousands of species, > including geophytes. Bottom line is the crops destroy biodiversity > all around them. > > If a company can cross genes so unrelated, why couldn't they have > made them pollen sterile? That would solve two problems. One to > prevent contamination of organic growers crops and two to prevent seed > formation, which they don't allow anyway due to the utility patents. > Organic seed growers are required to have their crops tested yearly > for the presence of GMOs, out of pocket. > See http://www.wildgardenseed.com/articles/catalog-essays for some > highly interesting essays on utility patents, GMO sugar beets, and common sense. > > That being said, there are only a few ornamental GMOs that I'm aware > of (glow in the dark houseplants, blue rose attempts) and I'm sure > they are grown with tissue culture, so I doubt their affect on the > environment is as severe. > > -Travis > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kimcmich@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:21:14 -0800 Ken, You make good points concerning a relative lack of direct competition between European honeybees and native pollinators in the US - but we can't necessarily take current dynamics for granted. The preference of native pollinators for different feeding times or species could be either 1) the result of ongoing competition with European honeybees or 2) the result of historical extinction/extirpation of native pollinators that did have behaviors more directly competitive with European honeybees. I would also hesitate to assume that the pollen and nectar food sources that European honeybees monopolize in the present day were surplus in the pre-colonial ecosystem - and certainly not surplus to the extent that trillions of European honeybees could join the foodweb without displacing native species. Still, I agree that we don't have evidence of a native pollinator "holocaust" caused by European honeybees - but then again, the truth of the matter is lost to 400 years of ecosystem alteration... -| From: k.preteroti@verizon.net Native pollinators generally work flowers in weather conditions where the honey bee stays at home. I do not believe a Carrying Capacity of the Environment for pollinators has been established. From penstemon@Q.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <6522FEF03C7E4655AAD84F159A263CCF@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:33:38 -0700 >What if I decide to commercially grow seedless mandarins, sometimes sold in the U.S. under the trademark name Cuties? Should I be able to demand that all my neighbors within a certain distance of my citrus orchard must now remove all their pollen producing citrus plants in order to prevent pollination of my mandarins, all because I want to profit from growing higher value seedless citrus fruit? This sort of thing happens all the time. Depends on who has the most money and influence. "The federal government had banned the growing of black and red currants in 1911 when the burgeoning logging industry put pressure on lawmakers to eliminate the currants because they were thought to be an intermediate host of white pine blister rust." http://www.news.cornell.edu/stories/2006/07/welcome-back-black-currants-forbidden-fruit-making-ny-comeback Bob From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 11:53:13 -0800 GMO root crops (sugar beets) have no need for pollen, obviously corn and soy need to be fertile. If "contamination" occurs an organic grower could lose their "organic" certification on that crop, which would suck for them. Bt corn and cotton contain (and produce) a bt protein that kills certain insects, yet is safe for people. Yes by is used in organic gardening, though is short lived in the form allowed in organic gardening. Most GMO corn is used for biofuel, while other products are highly processed (corn syrup), so even if they were conventional crops they would still be terrible for you. Apparently sugar beets are grown for use in candy. Inappropriate use of herbicides and pesticides is no doubt bad for biodiversity weather it's a GMO crop or not, even if it's safer than table salt or over tillage. -Travis From k.preteroti@verizon.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <0337380B-DB59-4610-A381-431BDFF1C1F5@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:55:30 -0500 TO, I put little faith in speculation. Beekeepers are businessmen. They do not place managed hives in locations where there is limited forage, at least not intentionally. I cannot say I have ever seen a flower devoid of pollen due to honey bees over foraging. Now take Canada for example and their production of canola oil (rape seed), honey bees produce vast amounts of surplus honey. The problem for native pollinators is not the honey bee but it is due to monoculture of the Brassica species. Their habitat is gone. The only case I am aware of where managed bees are a concern is the bumblebee. Bumblebees can be used in greenhouses while honeybees cannot. Non native bumble bees queens escaped and they put pressure on the native bumblebees. I believe now that purchased bumblebees are queenless. This would eliminate that concern. I am not aware of tracheal or varroa mites infecting native bees. Nor have I heard of brood diseases that affect honeybees affect native bees. Possible th ough. Ken Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From kimcmich@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:46:12 -0800 > From: k.preteroti@verizon.net >Beekeepers are businessmen. They do not place managed hives in locations where there is limited forage, at least not intentionally... I cannot say I have ever seen a flower devoid of pollen due to honey bees over foraging. As businessment, beekeepers have every incentive to maximize their number of hives until production falls below profitability. In practice, this means adding hives until the available forage cannot support more. Beekeepers *are* the limiting factor on forage in this dynamic. But to bring this back to bulbs: I can certainly say I have seen honeybees fastidiously collect all the pollen from every anther on flowers in my garden. As a propagator, I often lose the competition for pollen to the honeybees! The most vivid case of meticulous pollenectomy has been performed by honeybees on every one of hundreds of flowers of Boophone disticha for two seasons now. I have to pollinate in the early morning and hope a few anthers have ripened over night because all the pollen is gone from every ripe anther by the afternoon/evening when I get home. I don't think anyone is arguing that honeybees are the a major threat to the environment. It nevertheless remains true that trillions of nonnative bees cannot help but have negative competitive effects on native species. -| From: Kenneth Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:46:23 -0500 Bees, white mans flies, have been in the americas for a long time. What impact they may have had to native pollinators may never bee known. I think we need to differentiate between managed bees and feral bees. Managed bees are often clustered in large numbers and very well could impact natives within the managed area. Feral bees I believe studies have shown are separated by distances of 1000 feet ( could be 1000meters). At those densities I would not think they could impact natives too much. Also feral bee colonies are much smaller than managed colonies. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From kimcmich@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:49:04 -0800 Greetings, This email is not about bees at all but I retained the title as a test. In my email reader, the emails in this thread "RE: [pbs] Honeybees, Pollinator study." are all listing as separate rather than being grouped by their shared title like other threads on the list. Are others seeing this? I'm wondering why grouping by title/conversation isn't working for this topic... -| From: Jim McKenney Subject: GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 12:50:10 -0800 The Cornell piece quoted by Bob "because they were thought to be an intermediate host of white pine blister rust." seems to me to be a good example of weasel words in action: They were thought? In the past tense, as if they are no longer thought to be intermediate hosts? As far as I know, they are just as much a potential intermediate host now as they were a century ago - except in the case of the few newer sorts thought to be resistant. My state, Maryland, allows the growing of Ribes and related plants. Neighboring West Virginia does not. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where I wish I had a nice slice of gooseberry pie to warm me up today. From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <4958662.96957.1415998392373.JavaMail.root@vznit170158> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:53:12 -0600 (CST) Good to get back to bulbs. Do we think that honey with pollen collected from Boophone is toxic. I've read that a honey made from pollen of a Rhododendron was poisonous when Roman soldiers ate it. Arnold New Jersey, where I wish there were more honey bees. From kimcmich@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:04:14 -0800 Arnold, I have wondered the same thing. And it might not just be dangerous of the Roman soldiers: California buckeye, for instance, poisons the bees that gather its nectar & pollen:http://ucanr.edu/blogs/bugsquad/index.cfm?tagname=California%20buckeye -| From: arnold140@verizon.net > Good to get back to bulbs. > Do we think that honey with pollen collected from Boophone is toxic. I've read that a honey made from pollen of a Rhododendron was poisonous when Roman soldiers ate it. From plantsman@comcast.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20141114215602.628192188E@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:54:10 -0800 Kipp, This is interesting because I have never seen bees collect pollen from Amaryllis belladonna flowers although they always go after the fragrant nectar. Honey bees seem generally unfamiliar with A. belladonna flowers since they land randomly on both the inside and outside of the flowers and frequently on my hands if I'm emasculating or hand pollinating flowers. As I recall, Boophone flowers are not fragrant. Correct? This source states that honey produced from Aesculus californica flowers is not poisonous to humans: http://ucanr.edu/sites/scmg/Plant_of_the_Month/Aesculus_californica_-_California_buckeye/ However, these sources state that honey produced from A. californica flowers is poisonous to humans: http://research.vet.upenn.edu/PoisonousPlantsofPA/Aesculus/tabid/5397/Default.aspx http://www.fs.fed.us/database/feis/plants/tree/aescal/all.html#18 Nathan >The most vivid case of meticulous pollenectomy has been performed by >honeybees on every one of hundreds of flowers of Boophone disticha >for two seasons now. I have to pollinate in the early morning and >hope a few anthers have ripened over night because all the pollen is >gone from every ripe anther by the afternoon/evening when I get home. > >-| >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From zigur@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Tim Harvey Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 13:59:39 -0800 No, Boophone flowers are quite fragrant. T > As I recall, Boophone flowers are not > fragrant. Correct? From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:09:24 -0700 Arnold mentioned toxic honey. Xenophon recorded it first (I think in the Anabasis) and it was Greek soldiers. Involved plants were possibly Rhododendron and/or Kalmia, depending on which way the DNA sequencer is blowing. Leo Martin Zone ? Phoenix Arizona USA From k.preteroti@verizon.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kenneth Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 17:25:48 -0500 Kipp I find a number of strange things happening lately. All posts were being sent to my junk folder. No matter I read them there. Suddenly half the posts are in my junk folder and now half the post are in my in folder. That makes reading difficult. I default back to the PBS List. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <87F2152B-2FB9-45DF-B1D2-3ADF3853D6E8@gmail.com> From: Steven Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:33:11 +1000 Hi Alberto, the short answer is no, it is impossible for honey made from poisonous plants pollens to produce poisoned honey.... I imagine their might have been other circumstances that got the Romans, far beyond their knowledge of the day... It was a time of indulgence & food exposed for long periods to numerous bacterias, also a time of ergot mold in grain for bread that caused hallucinations & even death, & the list goes on... Bees world wide use extensive numbers of extremely deadly plants to make honey & the end product is always pure & safe... However, for those of us with good imaginations, hypothetically toxins could carry on the bees body hairs, but again bees are infallible when it comes to cleanliness & their should be no contamination at all... ...Treats 4 Dogs... On 15/11/2014, at 6:53 AM, arnold140@verizon.net wrote: > Good to get back to bulbs. > > Do we think that honey with pollen collected from Boophone is toxic. I've read that a honey made from pollen of a Rhododendron was poisonous when Roman soldiers ate it. > > Arnold > New Jersey, where I wish there were more honey bees. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Honeybees, pollinator study Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 14:51:39 -0800 Nectar is not produces as abundantly as pollen on many plants, and can easily be depleted in a day. Nectar is often produced in the morning in many species, so once a flower is depleted it won't produce any more that day. In drought this dearth can last for days until there is surplus moisture for nectar production. On flowers with nectar beyond the reach of bees, some bees will steal nectar by biting a hole at the base of the flower tube. Bumblebees are the common culprits, with honeybees often using the same holes. There in fact have been studies revealing the presence of Varroa and Tracheal mites in native bee populations. If I remember correctly I have also read a study identifying Deformed Wing virus in some bumblebee populations. See http://www.americanbeejournal.com/ and join the newsletter to receive such papers on honeybee studies. -Travis From richrd@nas.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/GMOs Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:26:57 -0800 I'm sorry am home now. On Nov 14, 2014, at 12:46 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Bees, white mans flies, have been in the americas for a long time. What impact they may have had to native pollinators may never bee known. I think we need to differentiate between managed bees and feral bees. Managed bees are often clustered in large numbers and very well could impact natives within the managed area. Feral bees I believe studies have shown are separated by distances of 1000 feet ( could be 1000meters). At those densities I would not think they could impact natives too much. Also feral bee colonies are much smaller than managed colonies. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From richrd@nas.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 16:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Richard Subject: GMOs morphed to bulbs and tree rust Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 15:54:03 -0800 We were growing 5 needle pines and red currant, Ribes sanguineum. Big mistake - blister rust moved in on the currant. Not our other species of Ribes. The red uredial stage. The spores of the alternate host must have blown in from 3000' timbered ridges about 2-3 miles away to east and south. Was a serious problem that went away until we quit the pines and introduced spray protocol. Is heart breaking to lose a mature white pine to this rust. Is good practice to monitor your susceptible alternate hosts. Oh some bulb perhaps we should ask for some bulbisms along with this unrelated stuff. For me this has been interesting series of conversations with diversity of viewpoints I'm at the point where my lily seed germination protocol has worked three times. I've been getting high percentage emergence of L. columbianum and washingtonianum with 23 to 28 days of 'warm' stratification at 50 F 23 to 30 days or until the seeds show radicals. I sandwich between damp peat moss and screens. No mold problems. Then I put into cold strat at about 38 deg f for 2 - 3 months. The radicals will be out as much as 3/4 inch with swelling that eventually gives rise to first leaf. When this starts happening I put into trays or plant in the field if it is early spring. No need to wait for second year germination although I am likely missing a few late ones. This last season I've been scaling up these 2 species and made about 300 Anderson trays this way. I harvested this week and yields were very good. Now they are sandwiched between peat layers and waiting for field planting in February. I tried this protocol early spring, 2014 and planted the seed directly into the field. They seemed to be happy and will compare the 2 techniques next spring. I'm concerned about growing Lilium washingtonianum in our irrigated sandy loam soil. A bed of seedlings planted last year showed some die back in late spring. I do not know yet how many died but looked like Fusarium wilt. Any advice for me on field growing this species? Next season I'm field planting L. humboltii and have same concern. Rich H Bellingham, Wa., From bonaventure@optonline.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <77e55aa0.c9326.149b10acf45.Webtop.59@optonline.net> From: BO MAGRYS Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:21:55 -0500 (EST) It seems that Amorphophallus titanum specimens at various botanic gardens are blooming more frequently on younger plants and with smaller inflorescences. Are we selecting for this? It may be time to introduce new genes from the wild into our captive polulations.  I've grown many choice self-seeding annuals starting from a single specimen for years (Impatiens namchabarwensis being one, another Solanum atropurpureum). Eventually inbreeding depression takes place and the plants have less vigor and succumb. Bonaventure _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1CE8BC74E9F46-D93C-294BD@webmail-vm018.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants/inbreeding depression Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:36:57 -0500 Inbreeding depression is a problem with many species, but it can be avoided if seeds are banked early on in a fridge or freezer so more genotypes can be preserved if the inbreeding is so severe that it results in essentially homozygous weak plants. Backcrossing to plants raised from stored seed with some different alleles should restore vigor. Its also possible that if large enough populations are maintained some genetic diversity can also be maintained, I think the minimum ideal is something like 50 plants. Smaller populations maintained in different gardens over time also would be a way to avoid inbreeding if seed is exchanged between the gardeners every so often, since it is unlikely that the exact same alleles will be lost in each individual population. It also seems that some plants maintain vigor over several generations in horticulture, they must have some way of avoiding inbreeding depression, or maybe harmful recessive alleles get selected out over time. I know I have been growing Impatiens namchabarwensis since it first got to the USA (via Plant World Seeds) and it is still vigorous and reseeds just fine. If wild populations of the plant still exist, then indeed periodic fresh introductions into the gene pool would avoid inbreeding issues. Ernie DeMarie NY where we still have managed to avoid frost, but tonight will be the night as they forecast upper 20s. -----Original Message----- From: BO MAGRYS To: pbs Sent: Fri, Nov 14, 2014 8:22 pm Subject: [pbs] Sharing seeds of rare plants It seems that Amorphophallus titanum specimens at various botanic gardens are blooming more frequently on younger plants and with smaller inflorescences. Are we selecting for this? It may be time to introduce new genes from the wild into our captive polulations. I've grown many choice self-seeding annuals starting from a single specimen for years (Impatiens namchabarwensis being one, another Solanum atropurpureum). Eventually inbreeding depression takes place and the plants have less vigor and succumb. Bonaventure From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1416017064.87132.YahooMailNeo@web126202.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: a weather comment; was Re: Sharing seeds of rare plants/inbreeding depression Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 18:04:24 -0800 Ernie wrote: "NY where we still have managed to avoid frost, but tonight will be the night as they forecast upper 20s. " Tonight's the night for us, too, and we're several hundred miles south of you. We've had enough frost this week to singe the foliage of tender plants, although things close to the ground have not actually frozen. The foliage of some gesneriads is among the first to go. The greater Washington, D.C. commercial market has expanded so much over the decades that it's hard to make sense of the local weather reports: they are apt to include references to the Shennandoah Valley of Virginia, Hagerstown, Maryland, Fredericksburg Virginia and Baltimore. As a gardener the thing I'm listening for is 32 degrees F. Depending on the source, there is usually a good 10 degree range in the predicted overnight low. So for this gardener, it's a guessing game. By the time I finish bringing in things tonight, moving from room to room throughout the house will be like negotiating an obstacle course. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:02:03 -0700 > Bees world wide use extensive > numbers of extremely deadly > plants to make honey & the end > product is always pure & safe... Xenophon was the first but not the last to describe poisoning by honey from plants with toxic nectar. Kalmia latifolia is well-known as a source of this. Deaths have occurred in North America. Rhododendron and other Kalmia spp. are also responsible. But they sure have pretty flowers, though they are not bulbous. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1416025062.22062.YahooMailBasic@web75301.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: GMOs Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:17:42 +0800 Hello: When talking about the sun UV "GMO". The IARC list the sun radiation in the Group 1 Carcinogenic to humans in 2012. http://monographs.iarc.fr/ENG/Classification/index.php Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: Smoke water Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 23:21:44 -0500 This is really good, but I cannot pass it on because some of my friends may be liberals. We never talk politics so I do not know. It is better this way. Not everybody is a militant liberal though. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study Date: Fri, 14 Nov 2014 20:24:43 -0800 Honey from Rhododendron and other toxic plants is safe for people when the honey comb cells are capped. Bees cap the honey when it has reached a specific moisture content. The uncapped premature honey has historically made people sick, even in the last century (see "Plants and Beekeeping" by F. N. Howes) I imagine it is similar with the Amarilids. -Travis From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1416026811.32805.YahooMailBasic@web75304.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:46:51 +0800 Hello: I have heard that the introduced bee have a wider collecting area and flower species. But don't know if there are still comprehensive native specialization relation examples just as some orchids and native pollinators which might have be broken now. I wonder if the bee would contribute to the pollen moving even for the species which are majorly self-fertilize. (Such as the Soy bean) Su-hong-Ciao Taiwan From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1416026980.74438.YahooMailBasic@web75301.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: 回覆﹕ Honeybees and pollen Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:49:40 +0800 Hello: I had read the honey which contain the nectar or pollen from Aconitum is poisons. But I had not found any article which kind of honey may be poisonous from certain species yet. Su-hong-Ciao Taiwan From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Fri, 14 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1416028328.84273.YahooMailBasic@web75305.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: 回覆﹕ Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:12:08 +0800 Hello: I have read that the flowerbulb production in Netherlands and Chile are all managed in a great 3-10 years crop-rotation cycle . I wonder which geophytes show the needs of crop rotation? and which are adaptive to the succession planting? The reason may be exterior such as 1. the biotic: micro organism or pests density. 2.abiotic: micro nutrient. (By Seeds or asexual reproduction are both considered.) Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 15 Nov 2014 00:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1271546598.2003.1416038328076.JavaMail.www@wwinf1f25> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Honeybees, Pollinator study, Toxicity in honey. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:58:48 +0100 (CET) Honey from a local famous garden, Le Vasterival, which is full of Rhododendrons had the same scare. I bought a jar of it and it is delicious! It is good to know the mechanism that causes toxicity in honey. Galanthus are greatly visited by honeybees on warm January and February days, even earlier sometimes, when the flowers open. Crocus too of course, but I grow so few of them because of voles. Galanthus are immune. Mark. Sainte Marguerite-sur-mer, Normandy, France.     > Message du 15/11/14 05:30 > De : "T O" > A : "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Honeybees, Pollinator study > > Honey from Rhododendron and other toxic plants is safe for people when the honey comb cells are capped. Bees cap the honey when it has reached a specific moisture content. The uncapped premature honey has historically made people sick, even in the last century (see "Plants and Beekeeping" by F. N. Howes) > > I imagine it is similar with the Amarilids. > > -Travis > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 01:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:13:11 +1000 Thanks Leo, I have a question or 2, ive also read this on many internet sights & wikis etc, but so far ive only seen early or ancient history on this subject & haven't found any information on recorded modern day deaths from plant or bulb contaminated honey....:( I know Xenophon described this in Roman times, but I wonder what scientific evidence he used to prove it was plant caused & not any of the other numerous causes of toxic honey.. But if people have died in North America from such honey, im guessing this was probably in modern times when science could actually test the honey to prove it was a particular plant cause... Is there a modern record of this available to see ? Does anyone know of any scientific evidence of deaths in the modern era proven to be from plant caused poisons ? As a former bee grower, I would be extremely interested in concrete proof that a particular plant caused toxic honey that was proven to cause a death. Part of the reason I ask is, I used to have my bee hives in a garden absolutely full of lots of Rhododendrons, Amaryllis including some of the poisonous ones mentioned earlier, & I was just about to get bees again, European & also stingless Australian Native bees... Although I obviously didn't die from my honey before even though the little buzzers used to buzz into all the flowers for a look, im now a bit concerned now that I might be taking a big risk ? I cant help but wonder if the bee growers who grow their honey close to the national Rhododendron garden in VIC have ever had any problems with their honey... On 15 November 2014 14:02, Leo Martin wrote: > Xenophon was the first but not the last to describe poisoning by honey from > plants with toxic nectar. Kalmia latifolia is well-known as a source of > this. Deaths have occurred in North America. Rhododendron and other Kalmia > spp. are also responsible. Leo Martin > Zone 9? > Phoenix Arizona USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From lthames@cableone.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: linda thames Subject: Honeybees and pollen Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 06:36:18 -0600 This sounds as though it would call for bee keepers in areas with those plants to be contacted to find out what they think about this. On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 3:13 AM, steven hart < hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com> wrote: > Thanks Leo, I have a question or 2, ive also read this on many internet > sights & wikis etc, but so far ive only seen early or ancient history on > this subject & haven't found any information on recorded modern day deaths > from plant or bulb contaminated honey....:( > > I know Xenophon described this in Roman times, but I wonder what scientific > evidence he used to prove it was plant caused & not any of the other > numerous causes of toxic honey.. But if people have died in North America > from such honey, im guessing this was probably in modern times when science > could actually test the honey to prove it was a particular plant > cause... Is there a modern record of this available to see ? > > Does anyone know of any scientific evidence of deaths in the modern era > proven to be from plant caused poisons ? > > As a former bee grower, I would be extremely interested in concrete proof > that a particular plant caused toxic honey that was proven to cause a > death. Part of the reason I ask is, I used to have my bee hives in a > garden absolutely full of lots of Rhododendrons, Amaryllis including some > of the poisonous ones mentioned earlier, & I was just about to get bees > again, European & also stingless Australian Native bees... Although I > obviously didn't die from my honey before even though the little buzzers > used to buzz into all the flowers for a look, im now a bit concerned now > that I might be taking a big risk ? > > I cant help but wonder if the bee growers who grow their honey close to the > national Rhododendron garden in VIC have ever had any problems with their > honey... > > On 15 November 2014 14:02, Leo Martin wrote: > > > Xenophon was the first but not the last to describe poisoning by honey > from > > plants with toxic nectar. Kalmia latifolia is well-known as a source of > > this. Deaths have occurred in North America. Rhododendron and other > Kalmia > > spp. are also responsible. Leo Martin > > Zone 9? > > Phoenix Arizona USA > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > > -- > Steven : ) > Esk Queensland Australia > Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From fierycloud2002@yahoo.com.tw Sat, 15 Nov 2014 06:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1416059243.12069.YahooMailBasic@web75304.mail.tw1.yahoo.com> From: Fierycloud Subject: CITES and Galanthus Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:47:23 +0800 Hello: Excuse me. But Galanthus nivalis or Galanthus elwesii monosticta should both on the CITES list Even other cultivated garden named clones? The whole genus should be under the control of CITES only while importing and exporting. (Seeds exclude.) http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php Galanthus spp. #4 Su-Hong-Ciao Taiwan From bea.spencer@sympatico.ca Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: B Spencer Subject: poisonous honey Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:46:51 -0500 Sorry about that. My last message was not meant for the list. I must have been very tired last night. Interesting stuff about honey. Bee keeping was my father's hobby. My uncle's too. It never even occurred to me that honey may be poisonous. There were not many rhododendrons in the area, bur plenty of other poisonous plants as everywhere I am sure. Never heard about anybody getting sick from honey. This is really good, but I cannot pass it on because some of my friends may be liberals. We never talk politics so I do not know. It is better this way. Not everybody is a militant liberal though. --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki --- This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus protection is active. http://www.avast.com From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: poisonous honey Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:49:56 -0500 I just watched something on NOVA or DISCOVERY - where bees near certain places produce honey in different colors (blue, green, yellow, etc.) It's all based on what they are eating - and apparently there are some foods like crack to bees - antifreeze, candy, etc - Very interesting. So it's not just the plants they are visiting. On Sat, Nov 15, 2014 at 9:46 AM, B Spencer wrote: > Sorry about that. My last message was not meant for the list. I must have > been very tired last night. > Interesting stuff about honey. Bee keeping was my father's hobby. My > uncle's too. It never even occurred to me that honey may be poisonous. > There were not many rhododendrons in the area, bur plenty of other > poisonous plants as everywhere I am sure. Never heard about anybody getting > sick from honey. > > > This is really good, but I cannot pass it on because some of my friends may > be liberals. We never talk politics so I do not know. It is better this > way. > Not everybody is a militant liberal though. > > > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > --- > This email is free from viruses and malware because avast! Antivirus > protection is active. > http://www.avast.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From slsykora@sbcglobal.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Sylvia Sykora Subject: EXPORTING SEED Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:44:08 -0800 Does anyone know whether sending non-commercial cyclamen seed to a friend in the UK is regulated? I've often received such seed without trouble but have no idea about sending seed the other direction. Many thanks, Sylvia Sykora Oakland, CA From robin@hansennursery.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5C96B406971A445A84FF4BCDC62AF13D@RobinPC> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: EXPORTING SEED Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 07:51:39 -0800 >Does anyone know whether sending non-commercial cyclamen seed to a friend >in the UK is regulated? I've often received such seed without trouble but >have no idea about sending seed the other direction. I routinely donate cyclamen seed to the Cyclamen Society in UK. You will need a customs sticker. The words "seeds of no commercial value" need to be on it, and there are some other blanks to fill out, which the post office can help you with. As long as they are not wild-collected, it's not an issue. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery North Bend, Oregon From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4DA0D22D-E4A2-4119-B03F-3B10AD4A9C3A@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: EXPORTING SEED Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:56:21 -0600 Dear Sylvia, Place seed packets in a small size bubble envelope for padding. On the required customs declaration sate ‘Garden/ Flower Seeds” and mail by air mail. Shouold be absolutely NO PROBLEM. I have sent hundreds of packets to the UK without any difficulty. Best Jim W. On Nov 15, 2014, at 9:44 AM, Sylvia Sykora wrote: > Does anyone know whether sending non-commercial cyclamen seed to a friend in the UK is regulated? I've often received such seed without trouble but have no idea about sending seed the other direction. > > Many thanks, > Sylvia Sykora > Oakland, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:57:54 -0600 Friends, Haven’t we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? Let’s get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. THANKS Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From fritchick@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bridget Subject: EXPORTING SEED Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:58:11 -0500 I have had no issues at all. I do label the package "Seeds, No Soil". Bridget, In - they tell me I'm Zone 6a but I'm not believing it today. > On Nov 15, 2014, at 10:44 AM, Sylvia Sykora wrote: > > Does anyone know whether sending non-commercial cyclamen seed to a friend in the UK is regulated? I've often received such seed without trouble but have no idea about sending seed the other direction. > > Many thanks, > Sylvia Sykora > Oakland, CA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From robin@hansennursery.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <7A8AAEA3491B440CBD270093840A582F@RobinPC> From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: Invasive lists, was Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:31:54 -0800 >The really crazy one is that Oregon lists, among "potential invasives," Cyclamen coum. It is less enthusiastic here than C. hederifolium, but I imagine someone saw the famous colony of it at Boyd Kline's garden in southern Oregon and "totally freaked out." >No Oregon anti-cyclamen people are allowed in my garden, then. C. coum self sows everywhere here. I was told in 2012 by someone from British Columbia, and I think the occurence was on Vancouver Island, that coum is beginning to run wild in one or two woodland areas there. I suppose there's always the concern about eliminating native species. Where the concern about coum in Oregon has originated, who knows? It surely can't be from Boyd's garden. I had to deliberately sow it into my grass in the garden and even then, it's only doing so-so, although better than hederifolium. I have the occasional plant pop up in my discarded dirt pile, but given how long I've been here, I'd actually expect it to be popping up in a lot of places, and it is not. I have much more serious concerns about English ivy, blackberries, scotch broom and cotoneaster.... Bob is correct, anti-cyclamen people are not allowed (I'll add "period") . Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery 38 F this morning and getting colder (yeah, we Oregonians are still wimps in the cold division) From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 08:49:49 -0800 Well said Jim. Thanks Karl Dinuba, CA zone 9b On Nov 15, 2014 7:58 AM, "James Waddick" wrote: > Friends, > Haven’t we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? > Let’s get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. > THANKS Jim W. > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From silkie@frontiernet.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <004601d000f9$ed4b34d0$c7e19e70$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:31:01 -0800 Easy, just bring up a new topic. Colleen -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 7:58 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] This is a BULB list. Friends, Haven't we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? Let's get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. THANKS Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: EXPORTING SEED Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 09:53:30 -0800 When sending seeds overseas or to Canada, I usually write "Dried botanical material" on the customs form, or sometimes I write "Dried seeds of cultivated origin," on the principle that the longer the words are, the less they will register on the consciousness of an inspector. Some senders write "Botanical material for research purposes." All perfectly true, especially if there might be a little chaff in the seed packet. Let's hope there are no fauna beyond microscopic ones (which arrive windborne across thousands of kilometres of ocean anyway). I once received some seeds in a slide case, with actual slides at each end so it would rattle convincingly, which made me reflect that some of us did not grow up in the 1960s for nothing. I do now have proper APHIS import paperwork and can inflict it on honest seed purveyors everywhere -- until our new Congress defunds the program. Jane McGary At 07:51 AM 11/15/2014, you wrote: >>Does anyone know whether sending non-commercial cyclamen seed to a >>friend in the UK is regulated? I've often received such seed >>without trouble but have no idea about sending seed the other direction. > > > >I routinely donate cyclamen seed to the Cyclamen Society in UK. You >will need a customs sticker. The words "seeds of no commercial >value" need to be on it, and there are some other blanks to fill >out, which the post office can help you with. As long as they are >not wild-collected, it's not an issue. > >Robin Hansen >Hansen Nursery >North Bend, Oregon From pbs.spiranthes@spamgourmet.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5467974D.8010003@bellsouth.net> From: pbs.spiranthes@spamgourmet.com Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:11:25 -0500 Summary of the Argument: It is argued that unfettered propagation, distribution, and any possible concomitant genetic contamination of otherwise isolated endangered plant populations are in the best interests of endangered plants. I argue that these are assertions that we cannot take as true merely on the basis of personal authority and that these assertions need to be proven by way of specific examples, scientifically-proven facts, and scholarly research. > I have had more dealings with the self-appointed controllers of rare > plants than I'd like to remember. This is confusing. If these authorities are self-appointed, how is it that they have any power to affect you? Why do you even "deal" with them? Why not ignore them? > I find their arguments devoid of any logic . . . Because you don't state what those arguments are, it is not possible for anyone to determine if the arguments are indeed devoid of logic. And I'm not simply going to take your word that unspecified arguments, whose contents are unknown to me, are devoid of logic. > . . . and [I] find their arrogance disappointing You have put up a lengthy compilation of emails on your Plant Delights web site from people who describe you in the most unflattering terms and who are deeply disappointed with you (http://www.plantdelights.com/Received-Mail-Rants). So I imagine you don't expect us to take your description of the arrogance of others, and your subsequent disappointment, seriously. When others say pretty much the same about you, you treat it as a "rant." Are you now the one who is ranting? > First, if anyone believes that climate changes, then the least > effective method of conserving a rare plant would be in situ > conservation. Propagation and widespread distribution is far more > logical. While in situ conservation makes us feel good and may be fine > in the short term, it really isn't a good long term conservation strategy. Because you provide no references for any of these assertions, I assume that we are supposed to accept them on the basis of your personal, expert knowledge or first hand experience. However, I am unable to find any evidence that you have expert knowledge in, or experience with, conservation biology. Your biography in Wikipedia provides no information regarding education and states only that you are an expert horticulturist and a plant breeder. But it doesn't say you are a conservation biologist. In any case, you ignore (or perhaps are ignorant of) many issues in conservation biology. For example, in situ conservation can protect an entire habitat as well as numerous other organisms associated with an endangered taxon. So it would be helpful for you to explain why your option, of unfettered propagation and distribution, is preferable to conserving an endangered taxon in situ, in the habitat in which it evolved and inside the evolutionary envelope containing all the other organisms with which the taxon co-evolved. > Correct me if I'm wrong, but few plants would exist today without > genetic exchange between populations, since as we all know, genetic > bottlenecks usually lead to long term population decline and > reductions in adaptability. We do not "all know" that what you assert is true. As I am not knowledgeable in population biology or genetics, I do not know that genetic bottlenecks "usually" lead to long-term population decline and reductions in adaptability. That is an assertion that you need to prove. Whatever the case regarding bottlenecks, I do know that plants that produce genetically identical copies of themselves and that rarely engage in sexual reproduction, are often *not* in decline and often show * no* reduction in adaptability. Some plant genera consist of both predominantly sexually reproducing species and apomictic microspecies (stable, genetically uniform, predominantly non-sexually reproducing populations recognized as species by some botanists and recognized as microspecies by other botanists). In the Northern Hemisphere, the genetically uniform microspecies have *larger* ranges than sexually reproducing species in the same genus. Thus, contradicting any assertions that genetically uniform plants that do not engage in genetic exchange are less vigorous or "in decline" with respect to sexually reproducing congeneric species. This phenomenon is known as "geographical parthenogenesis" (see, e.g., Hörandl et al. 2008. Understanding the geographic distributions of apomictic plants: a case for a pluralistic approach. Plant Ecology and Diversity 1(2): 309–320). That same work also states, "Selfing is a frequent phenomenon in plants, and well known as a predominant mode of reproduction of colonisers, such as annual pioneer plants, invasive plants and island endemics." As a plant breeder, I am sure you know that selfing may recombine a plant's genetic material but it introduces no new genetic material and it most definitely does not involve "genetic exchange between populations." Perhaps you might care to explain why selfing is the "predominant mode of reproduction of colonisers." Or do you contend that colonizing plants are in "long term population decline" and susceptible to "reductions in adaptability"? > The US has been glaciated 17 times, during which plants were moved all > around the continent. I am unaware of any biogeographer who would describe such movement as "all around the continent." Also, glaciations sometimes led to plants being restricted to small, isolated areas (so called glacial refugia) and some plants, such as the relictual species now found in Florida's panhandle, never left such refugia. By forcing plants into refugia, glaciations may perhaps have *constrained* plant movement as much as they facilitated plant movement. But, of course, that is merely a personal observation. I am not a geologist or a biogeographer. > It is this constant movement that keeps populations reinvigorated . . . You provide no evidence for the assertion that "constant movement" invigorates plant populations. > . . . as opposed to the isolation that exists now as natural > distributions have been interrupted by humans. So you consider it a problem when the natural distribution of a plant is interrupted by an invasive plant? > Also, would it not be worse on a natural population of Echinacea > laevigata if a homeowner planted the commonly sold Echinacea purpurea > near the preserve since echinaceas are notorious cross breeders? I am not sure what's your point. To state that "things could be worse" is a cliche irrelevant to the topic at hand. > Even this, according to Dr. Rob Griesbach of the USDA would be a good > idea, since according to him, the most efficient way to preserve to > genetics is to create hybrids since these store all of the genetics > from several parents in a single offspring. So the most efficient way to preserve the genomes of wolves and coyotes is to breed the two together? That's the *most efficient* way? And how do you get a wolf or coyote back from the wolyote or coyolf you just created? Do you selectively breed for the most wolf-appearing or coyote-appearing progeny for 15, 30, or whatever number of generations? Wouldn't it have been more efficient to simply have bred the wolf with another wolf and the coyote with another coyote? Is this the system you use at Juniper Level Botanic Gardens to preserve the genomes of two different congeneric species? Do you breed them together into one handy hybrid that takes up half the space of its two parents? If not, why not? After all, Dr. Griesbach, or so you claim, says it's "the most efficient way to preserve [the] genetics." > The entire notion of preserving rare plant genetics is actually a > modus operandi to preserve the flow of grant money to fund people with > this myopic view of nature. So the arguments for the preservation of local indigenous biodiversity are merely a ploy or collusion by scientists, peer review boards, and funding agencies that has been perpetrated with the sole purpose of getting grant monies into the hands of a few people with an excruciatingly specific myopic view of nature? Is there any evidence for this conspiracy theory? > Most plants are rare because they are poorly adaptable..often existing > in a very specialized, limited size ecosystem. It seems to me that > these plants were destined by nature to go extinct, if you consider > historical climate change part of nature. Destiny? You are using a mental abstraction as the basis for your assertions? And are you now promoting the concept of nature as an anthropomorphized teleological force to explain plant extinction? It's odd that you go with destiny and a personalized pseudo-deified version of nature as the possible causes of extinction in rare plants . . . but you don't mention habitat destruction, plant collectors, pollution, and invasive animal and plant pests. > Finally, if the plant is not going to be used by humans, what is the > point of preservation, if you limit human access and use? In my world, > any use that has an economic benefit would be desirable, since this is > the basis of our human society. According to your statement above, concepts regarding endangered plant genetics (and thus endangered plants) serve to funnel grant money to people with a specific myopic view of nature. And grant money provides direct and indirect economic benefits. So, is this economic benefit desirable? You do argue that "any use that has an economic benefit would be desirable." > Our current system is sadly broken . . . both plants and humans will > suffer. The above are examples of two logical fallacies: appeal to emotion (this is sad) and appeal to negative consequences (this will cause human suffering). But even if the arguments by plant conservationists regarding genetic contamination do result in sadness or suffering, that does not mean that the arguments are false. And it does not then mean that your assertions are true. You need to prove that your assertions are true using specific examples, scientifically proven facts, and scholarly research. Appeals to emotion and appeals to negative consequences indicate only that you do not have facts and science to back-up your assertions. > . . . until there is a major backlash against the academic elite of > the world . . . There will be no "major backlash" because the "problem" that you are describing affects a vanishingly small number of people. So outside of this very tiny group, the vast majority of people are not concerned that endangered plants cannot be as freely exploited as you desire. Finally, I find this statement somewhat disturbing in its grandiose-paranoid-delusional wording. You call for a *major* backlash. And this "backlash" must be worldwide in scope. And the "backlash" is not to be directed at any one specific target with the power to amend the Endangered Species Act. Instead, it is to be directed against the entirety of the "academic elite" throughout the entire world. The wording is scary because aren't major backlashes against wide segments of the "academic elite" usually associated with oppressive regimes? If I were in your position, I would advocate for an amendment to the legal statute that encumbers the propagation and distribution of endangered plants. Perhaps I would begin by writing to my elected representatives. A "major backlash against the academic elite of the world" would be pretty far down on my list of things to advocate for in order to change the Endangered Species Act. But, apparently, it's at the top of your list. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants - ASIDE COMMENTS Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:42:19 -0600 Dear Spiranthes, This is your second note ( I think) on this topic without a signature. I tend to delete such unsigned messages without reading. Please identify yourself. Thanks Jim W. On Nov 15, 2014, at 12:11 PM, pbs.spiranthes@spamgourmet.com wrote: > Summary of the Argument: > > It is argued that unfettered propagation, distribution, and any possible concomitant genetic contamination of otherwise isolated endangered plant populations are in the best interests of endangered plants. I argue that these are assertions that we cannot take as true merely on the basis of personal authority and that these assertions need to be proven by way of specific examples, scientifically-proven facts, and scholarly research. > i James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <979883989.17812.1416077061361.JavaMail.www@wwinf1g23> From: Mark BROWN Subject:  CITES and Galanthus Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:44:21 +0100 (CET) All galanthus are CITES listed plants and need permits. Which again proves the indiscrimate nature of CITES with around 20 wild species of galanthus and a thousand or so cultivars! Mark   > Message du 15/11/14 14:47 > De : "Fierycloud" > A : pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs]  CITES and Galanthus > > Hello: > Excuse me. > But Galanthus nivalis or Galanthus elwesii monosticta should both on the CITES list Even other cultivated garden named clones? > > The whole genus should be under the control of CITES only while importing and exporting. (Seeds exclude.) > http://www.cites.org/eng/app/appendices.php > Galanthus spp. #4 > > Su-Hong-Ciao > Taiwan > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From enoster@hotmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Poisonous honey Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 10:49:02 -0800 Here is a link to the full text of one of my favorite books, "Plants and Beekeeping" by F. N. Howes, a former botanist at the Royal Botanic Gardens at Kew, and a long time beekeeper in the first half of the 1900's. http://archive.org/stream/plantsandbeekeep031830mbp/plantsandbeekeep031830mbp_djvu.txt If you scroll down a bit there is a section on poisonous and unpalatable honey, describing incidents and floral sources. He notes however that when the honey is ripe and capped over then it is probably safe. My own observations revealed that honeybees aren't too interested in Rhododendrons if there is better forage available, even when Rhododendrons are in abundance. Bees seem to have a preference for flowers in the sun, with some exceptions of course, while Rhododendrons are often grown in the shade (here anyway). I have seen bumblebees on them though. -Travis From enoster@hotmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Bees and toxic bulbs Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:03:10 -0800 Any worry about poison honey from Galanthus or Eranthis will be eased knowing that the bees would consume the honey and feed it to their young (with no I'll effects) long before the honey was ever harvested by the beekeeper. The nectar is too deep in Narcissus for honeybees to reach, but they have little interest in them anyway, even for the pollen. Bumblebees here like the early flowering Narcissus for the pollen. -Travis From totototo@telus.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <54673523.13088.18D1@localhost> From: "Rodger Whitlock" Subject: Invasive lists, was Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 11:12:35 -0800 On 15 Nov 2014, at 8:31, Robin Hansen wrote: > I was told in 2012 by someone from British Columbia, and I think the > occurence was on Vancouver Island, that coum is beginning to run wild in > one or two woodland areas there. I suppose there's always the concern > about eliminating native species. Where the concern about coum in Oregon > has originated, who knows? It surely can't be from Boyd's garden. News to me. Not that I know everything happening here. From what I've seen, those who yammer most about "invasive" species are actually motivated by an ideology that condemns all non-native plants as a stench in the nostrils of God. They don't actually care (and usually don't know) if a given taxon is genuinely invasive (that is, a plant that chokes out natives), or not. I have a very long driveway (~300') that has a ten-foot wide pavement with ten feet of wild vegetation on each side. I grow many cyclamen in my garden. The two species that have gradually sown themselves along the length of my driveway are C. hederifolium (no suprise there) and C. repandum. Very few or no C. coum though I have beds full of it inside the property line. And even those escapees are far from being invasive: nothing is choked out by their growth. They don't form a thick carpet; it's a plant here and a plant there. The reality is that a very few plants are genuine invasives. The chicken littles screaming about other, quite innocuous escapes actually harm the cause by throwing all those red herrings into everyone's face and confusing the issues. For cyclamen coum to naturalize in a very few areas comes as no surprise, given the size of Vancouver Island and the wide range of microclimates on it. There are (or were) even feral narcissus spread by seed in one area (though real estate development may have annihilated them by now). What causes sardonic laughter: the provincial list of "invasives" and provincial failure to actually do anything to control them. Buddleia davidii is on the list; it is naturalized in a few places, one of them along a major highway, but you never see any sign that anybody is working on digging them out along that highway and destroying them. The ferals continue to grow as strongly as ever. That same list reportedly includes all cyclamen species. How incredibly stupid! The real invasives here are Cytisus scoparius (Scotch broom) and Hedera helix (ivy), plus a few fairly poisonous species such as Heracleum mantegazzianum (giant hogweed) and Conium maculatum (water hemlock). The poisonous ones are quite uncommon, in fact. All the regulations about plant importation and related activities overlook one important factor: human nature. If the regulations were written with the intent of making plant importation as easy as possible, compliance would be much higher. But because the existing regulations are unreasonable (and fairly ignorant), and impose onerous paperwork on would-be importers, they encourage smuggling, quite the opposite of the intended effect. Bureaucrats in my experience never think that way, however. They have a touching, childish belief that making a rule against some behavior or other stops it from happening. Which simply isn't true: there are strong laws against murder, child abuse, fraud, and many other serious crimes, but we constantly read of new instances of all these. How many such crimes go undetected is anybody's guess, but I'd say the majority are never noticed. -- Rodger Whitlock Victoria, British Columbia, Canada Z. 7-8, cool Mediterranean climate From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <0A659B682EA04004B9752BA373089C21@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Sharing seeds of rare plants Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:28:21 -0700 >Some plant genera consist of both predominantly sexually reproducing species and apomictic microspecies (stable, genetically uniform, predominantly non-sexually reproducing populations recognized as species by some botanists and recognized as microspecies by other botanists). In the Northern Hemisphere, the genetically uniform microspecies have *larger* ranges than sexually reproducing species in the same genus. As example of this is the wider distribution of apomictic forms of Townsendia condensata vs. sexually-reproducing forms. (Beaman, Systematics and Evolution of Townsendia.) >If I were in your position, I would advocate for an amendment to the legal statute that encumbers the propagation and distribution of endangered plants. There is at least one mail-order nursery which has permits for interstate trafficking in Endangered Species, though the seed is collected from stock plants grown at the nursery. I can grow all the endangered cacti I want, and I have the garden conditions suitable for their cultivation. I can't imagine there would be any profit in growing and selling other listed species not in the cactus family. CITES is a different kettle of fish altogether, and should not be confused with, or compared to, the ESA, in my opinion. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1569560477.670925.1416079868960.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100210.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: aaron floden via pbs Subject:  CITES and Galanthus Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:31:08 +0000 (UTC) CITES now also includes herbarium specimens of any CITES listed plant. Most CITES listings are indiscriminate which is obvious when all Orchidaceae are on there, Cycadaceae, Aloe, etc. I have not bothered to check, but I know they were pushing to put all Agave and Cactaceae in the list. Aaron Floden From: Mark BROWN To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 1:44 PM Subject: Re: [pbs]  CITES and Galanthus All galanthus are CITES listed plants and need permits. Which again proves the indiscrimate nature of CITES with around 20 wild species of galanthus and a thousand or so cultivars! Mark   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From arlen.jose@verizon.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <006701d0010e$f964ff20$ec2efd60$@verizon.net> From: "Fred Biasella" Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:01:40 -0500 Yes please. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 10:58 AM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] This is a BULB list. Friends, Haven't we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? Let's get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. THANKS Jim W. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From robin@no1bird.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <5467B18C.3090005@no1bird.net> From: Robin Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:03:24 -0500 i don't need you to send me this On 11/15/2014 3:01 PM, Fred Biasella wrote: > Yes please. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 10:58 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] This is a BULB list. > > Friends, > Haven't we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? > Let's get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. > THANKS Jim W. > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <08A33FFAB2BB428F9DC7073B67DE9F28@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:39:16 -0700 >Haven't we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? Let's get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. What about a rant concerning the recalcitrant germination of old (>ten years) oncocyclus iris seeds and the subsequent mishandling of the (few) seedlings? (Not much to be done about the latter, except to hire competent help.) Forced germination method, eleven months in the refrigerator, plus time out in warmer conditions. I've germinated seed before, using the outdoor method, and forced germination was said to be "faster". Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1416085496.59371.YahooMailNeo@web126206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 13:04:56 -0800 Great timing, Bob. I received my packets of arilate iris seeds from the Arilate Iris Society today. Now to work up the courage to cut them. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4B1A75C50C234B4BAF6AFD40045CE0E8@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:23:48 -0700 Now to work up the courage to cut them. The seeds were soaked in a solution of fifty percent bleach and distilled water for about fifteen minutes. The seeds were then thoroughly rinsed, with distilled water, and put into salt shakers (purchased expressly for this purpose), water changed every day, for four or five days. Then the arils were removed using a dental pick, making sure that the embryo was exposed. The seeds were put in freezer bags with some perlite, and put in the crisper drawer. (Thereby decreasing my intake of fresh vegetables.) One of the Iris urumiensis (JJA 600.600) germinated about a month ago. I transplanted it, and it grew. Then I had the bright idea of transplanting it to a pot of pure sand, thinking that the sand would dry out faster, thereby preventing rot. Then I had the even brighter idea of watering it, since the oncos in the garden display none of the hydrophobia so often mentioned in the literature. The sand refused to dry out (it must have been some new miracle sand), and the leaves started browning at the tips. So I transplanted the poor seedling again, into to my standard seed starting mix. Today, with my usual skill, I accidentally knocked the pot over, dislodging the root from the tiny rhizome. I won't describe what happened to the other two seedlings. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <432265.70737.bm@smtp203.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:39:16 +0000 I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb potting mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I try to find very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. The best stuff I found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” Isn’t sand generally a silicate mineral anyway? Dell Sent from Windows Mail _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From johannes-ulrich-urban@t-online.de Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5467CBD3.308@t-online.de> From: Johannes Ulrich Urban Subject: Oxalis flower open at night Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:55:31 +0100 Dear All, It is true that Oxalis flowers will only open in direct light, best is direct sunshine of course. But.... there is a trick to have open flowers any time of the day. Keep the flowering plant very dark, like in a hermetically closed (to light) box or a cupboard and then bring it into a well lit room at the time you want open flowers. it may need some extra light to open the flowers fully. This also works with other flowers that need direct light. The effect will last for some hours. Commercial plant dealers do that at plant sales. greetings from dull November-weather in Germany, all flowers closed..... Uli From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: cutting onco seeds - forced germination Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:00:35 +0000 Here is a series of pictures I made recording this process, on the Scottish Rock Garden Club Forum, as I have practised it. http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6450.0 I would not recommend planting Onco Iris in pots of pure sand. if exposed to warm sun. Possibly seedlings in a bed of course sand would be good, but I would still top 'dress' with grit. Sand has a capilliary action which can bring moisture up to the surface, and if the surface is warm and wet bacterial rot will kill oncos very quickly. Chlorine can stop the rot if applied in time. I always add some clay / loam, and for newly germinated seedlings I may even use a peat based compost with a lot of fine grit. When temperatures are right -(cool but not frozen), oncos can use quite a lot of water and do not like to dry out. There are many details of my experiences, and those of others, in the thread which this link goes to, and its successive page, as well as a link from there to a similar experiment by John Lonsdale. I suggest that Janis's (Ruksans) comments are well worth reading. It is so easy to have 'accidents' with seedlings I offer my condolences! I am not sure how removing the aril exposes the embryo.... Peter (UK) On 15 November 2014 21:23, penstemon wrote: > Now to work up the courage to cut them. > > > The seeds were soaked in a solution of fifty percent bleach and distilled > water for about fifteen minutes. The seeds were then thoroughly rinsed, > with distilled water, and put into salt shakers (purchased expressly for > this purpose), water changed every day, for four or five days. > Then the arils were removed using a dental pick, making sure that the > embryo was exposed. The seeds were put in freezer bags with some perlite, > and put in the crisper drawer. (Thereby decreasing my intake of fresh > vegetables.) > One of the Iris urumiensis (JJA 600.600) germinated about a month ago. I > transplanted it, and it grew. Then I had the bright idea of transplanting > it to a pot of pure sand, thinking that the sand would dry out faster, > thereby preventing rot. Then I had the even brighter idea of watering it, > since the oncos in the garden display none of the hydrophobia so often > mentioned in the literature. The sand refused to dry out (it must have been > some new miracle sand), and the leaves started browning at the tips. > So I transplanted the poor seedling again, into to my standard seed > starting mix. Today, with my usual skill, I accidentally knocked the pot > over, dislodging the root from the tiny rhizome. > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1416089248.41509.YahooMailNeo@web126201.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:07:28 -0800 I tried my first arilate irises over fifty years ago; they were the regeliocyclus hybrid 'Chione' and Iris susiana. Both bloomed, but neither lasted more that a year or two more. I still have old Kodachrome transparencies of both (or maybe later acquisitions of both). Subsequent trials of Iris susiana in pure grit filched from the local railroad tracks (I was still in the thralls of the "good drainage" mentality) resulted in plants which, although they persisted longer, gradually starved to death. Years later I tried again with a nice assortment of hybrids (many close to the onco side of things) from a California grower. I still have photos of these, too. When these were received, I noticed something about them which at first puzzled me: it was obvious that they had been grown in clay, red clay. These too did not last long, but wow did they make a deep impression. When inexpensive and readily available stocks of 'Dardanus' became available in the recent past, I decided to give these plant another try. Several other hybrids and species were obtained at the same time. They were planted in a raised bed of the local red clay. Most grew vigorously and bloomed. Still under the influence of the drainage myth, I assumed that the raised bed (it was raised well over a foot high). Most of the plants, especially the bigger ones which had bloomed, were already rotting when I dug a few in June to check them. It was at about this time that I had some exchanges with John Lonsdale about the culture of these plants. What I took away from that was the use of polycarbonate sheets to cover the plants after they bloom. I joined the Arilate Iris Society in 2013, thanks in part to Dennis' preiodic reminders to this list about that group. I obtained fifteen hybrids and planted these out in a simple, ground level (i.e. not raised) cold frame out in a field (my community garden plots) in late summer. All grew and the following year some bloomed. Sometime in May I covered the frame with a glass door (I'm getting too old for this and have since acquired some polycarbonate sheets). All of these (and some other arilates acquired elsewhere) sailed through the summer without a hitch. Many retained their foliage, some became completely dormant. In this part of the country, arilate irises ripen during May; guess which month of the year is typically our wettest month? They will never dry out if you don't cover them. I got a nasty surprise in September when I removed the glass: no sooner was the clean, vigorous looking foliage exposed to rain than it began to get spotty and die back. But the plants are obviously vigorous and otherwise healthy, and I'm already counting next spring's chickens. The frame, which might strike some of you as useless, does have a function; it prevents water running across the surface of the ground from entering the framed area. In the literature, especially the rock garden literature, there are articles (some of which read like calculus puzzles and kept me tied in knots) discussing drainage. To make a long story short, I think it's largely bunk as far as most summer dormant plants are concerned. What the plants in question need is not good drainage: as long as they are growing actively , they will probably thrive in a pig sty (at least until the pigs get them). But as the time for dormancy approaches, what they need, and this seems to be non-negotionable, is dry soil. That soil can be dried up muck, dried up stable bedding, the local clay dried from its formerly waterlogged condition - the sort of soil doesn't seem to matter, as long as it is dry. When these plants are put into very sandy, gritty media they do get rapid water passage; that rapid water passage also takes water soluble nutrients with whatever else drains out. It amounts to a starvation regimen. Put them in the richest goop you can get your hands on and watch them thrive - just remember to start to dry them off as they are coming into bloom so that by the time they are entering dormancy the medium around the rhizomes is dry. Try it; it has worked for me. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <16C3D1A06C554F0BB69D4B2685C260EB@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:07:55 -0700 >I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb potting >mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I try to find >very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. The best stuff I >found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” Isn’t sand generally >a silicate mineral anyway? I would have said yes, but a quick check of the apparently-omniscient Wikipedia says that silica sand is the most common form of sand, followed by sand from calcium carbonate (aragonite). The sand I use is the stuff called "paving sand"; comes in bags. The grains aren't uniform in size. Bob _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:19:34 +0000 Good advice Peter (UK) On 15 November 2014 22:07, Jim McKenney wrote: > I tried my first arilate irises over fifty years ago; they were the > regeliocyclus hybrid 'Chione' and Iris susiana. Both bloomed, but neither > lasted more that a year or two more. I still have old Kodachrome > transparencies of both (or maybe later acquisitions of both). Subsequent > trials of Iris susiana in pure grit filched from the local railroad tracks > (I was still in the thralls of the "good drainage" mentality) resulted in > plants which, although they persisted longer, gradually starved to death. > > Years later I tried again with a nice assortment When these were received, > I noticed something about them which at first puzzled me: it was obvious > that they had been grown in clay, red clay. > > When inexpensive and readily available stocks of 'Dardanus' became > available in the recent past, I decided to give these plant another try. > Several other hybrids and species were obtained at the same time. They were > planted in a raised bed of the local red clay. Most grew vigorously and > bloomed. Still under the influence of the drainage myth, I assumed that the > raised bed (it was raised well over a foot high). Most of the plants, > especially the bigger ones which had bloomed, were already rotting when I > dug a few in June to check them. > > It was at about this time that I had some exchanges with John Lonsdale > about the culture of these plants. What I took away from that was the use > of polycarbonate sheets to cover the plants after they bloom. > > I joined the Arilate Iris Society in 2013, thanks in part to Dennis' > preiodic reminders to this list about that group. I obtained fifteen > hybrids and planted these out in a simple, ground level (i.e. not raised) > cold frame out in a field (my community garden plots) in late summer. All > grew and the following year some bloomed. Sometime in May I covered the > frame with a glass door (I'm getting too old for this and have since > acquired some polycarbonate sheets). All of these (and some other arilates > acquired elsewhere) sailed through the summer without a hitch. Many > retained their foliage, some became completely dormant. > > In this part of the country, arilate irises ripen during May; guess which > month of the year is typically our wettest month? They will never dry out > if you don't cover them. > > I got a nasty surprise in September when I removed the glass: no sooner > was the clean, vigorous looking foliage exposed to rain than it began to > get spotty and die back. > > But the plants are obviously vigorous and otherwise healthy, and I'm > already counting next spring's chickens. > > The frame, which might strike some of you as useless, does have a > function; it prevents water running across the surface of the ground from > entering the framed area. > > In the literature, especially the rock garden literature, there are > articles (some of which read like calculus puzzles and kept me tied in > knots) discussing drainage. To make a long story short, I think it's > largely bunk as far as most summer dormant plants are concerned. What the > plants in question need is not good drainage: as long as they are growing > actively , they will probably thrive in a pig sty (at least until the pigs > get them). But as the time for dormancy approaches, what they need, and > this seems to be non-negotionable, is dry soil. That soil can be dried up > muck, dried up stable bedding, the local clay dried from its formerly > waterlogged condition - the sort of soil doesn't seem to matter, as long as > it is dry. > > When these plants are put into very sandy, gritty media they do get rapid > water passage; that rapid water passage also takes water soluble nutrients > with whatever else drains out. It amounts to a starvation regimen. > > Put them in the richest goop you can get your hands on and watch them > thrive - just remember to start to dry them off as they are coming into > bloom so that by the time they are entering dormancy the medium around the > rhizomes is dry. > > From ds429@frontier.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <629667.52594.bm@smtp208.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:19:45 +0000 So, I suspect that calcium carbonate sand might change the pH, and that is why it is undesirable for potting mixes? Dell Sent from Windows Mail From: penstemon Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎15‎, ‎2014 ‎5‎:‎07‎ ‎PM To: Pacific Bulb Society >I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb potting >mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I try to find >very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. The best stuff I >found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” Isn’t sand generally >a silicate mineral anyway? I would have said yes, but a quick check of the apparently-omniscient Wikipedia says that silica sand is the most common form of sand, followed by sand from calcium carbonate (aragonite). The sand I use is the stuff called "paving sand"; comes in bags. The grains aren't uniform in size. Bob _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <67095340FDB9414DB957A0720BEC9634@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: cutting onco seeds - forced germination Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:33:55 -0700 >It is so easy to have 'accidents' with seedlings I offer my condolences! I am not sure how removing the aril exposes the embryo.... I think you’re right; pure sand is not the way to go, with seedlings. I studied the pictures on the SRGC forum before proceeding, but I decided against cutting the seeds, because there weren't enough bandages in the house. If you take a dental pick and gently pull off the aril, the embryo is usually exposed. Sometimes it takes a little more effort, but that's usually sufficient. Maybe the older the seed is, the less responsive it is to my demand of immediate gratification. (I exaggerate. Since I really have nothing else to do, I find that telling people I'm quite busy with onco seed germination is a good way to get out of social events.) I grow all the oncos outdoors in raised beds of sand and gravel. I even water them in the summer, if I feel like it. Iris iberica and its ilk are summer dormant (no leaves), but Iris paradoxa is practically evergreen. A friend said that when he examined the soil in which paradoxa was growing, in eastern Turkey, it was similar to highly compressed peat. Through the miracle of modern technology, I posted a photo of paradoxa, taken just a few minutes ago. (The white stuff is snow. The cage is to protect the leaves from being eaten by rabbits.) http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/paridevita/media/paradoxa.jpg.html?sort=3&o=0 Bob Nold Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 14:41:55 -0800 I think "silica sand" is recommended in British books to steer people away from some other sources that might be bad for plants. I don't know what those are. However, ocean beach sand should be avoided. You also wouldn't want sand derived from ultramafic ("serpentine") rocks, which are toxic to some plants. The sand I use is a mixture of various minerals, primarily quartz along with basalt and other volcanic material. The important thing is that the particles be of various sizes, as Bob Nold mentioned, and that they be angular rather than rounded. Some sand is loaded with organic fines and has to be washed before being used with plants that don't tolerate that. The sand I use comes from a quarry on a river close to the Cascade range and the fines appear to be more mineral than organic. You can improve the consistency of lowland river sand by mixing in some kind of angular grit, such as quarter-ten crushed rock or ground pumice. If you use crushed rock, it should not have any fines in it (i.e., don't use the kind intended for compacting into paths, etc.). Different kinds of sand provide different levels of water retention and more or less air space in the mix. Unwashed sand direct from a quarry may also contain a significant amount of mineral nutrients useful to plants, especially plants that naturally grow in soils low in organic content. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA with apologies for mentioning our profligate use of pumice From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <323323C805614232AFDFB789BB860072@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 15:43:20 -0700 >So, I suspect that calcium carbonate sand might change the pH, and that is >why it is undesirable for potting mixes? Probably, but my guess is that saying "silica sand" is a hedge against potential outrage from one or two customers who might have expected aragonite and gotten silica sand instead. I use sand (silica sand) to add weight to seed pots left outdoors, to prevent them from being blown away, and pure sand to grow cactus seedlings after initial germination in a regular mix (peat, perlite, sand, calcined clay, whatever). And I never use turkey grit without tasting it first .... Bob From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: cutting onco seeds - forced germination Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:17:24 +0000 I often think of the smaller /northern oncos, paradoxa, acutiloba, barnumae..... as akin to Iris attica et al, -small mountain plants with, relatively speaking, no need for great heat in Summer, but wanting a pause in growth during winter. At the other extreme Iris gatesii, atropurpurea, lortettii et al which want to rest in Summer and prefer to have no pause in growth in winter. Iris sari, meda etc and the regelio cyclus Iris are the middle ground. Anything which will upset a pogon Iris will kill an onco. Paradoxa, iberica and elegantissima are in leaf here too, along with gatesii, lortettii, kirkwoodii, sari, various paradoxa ssp, acutilobas, barnumaes, autropurpurea, and others. With the right amount of moisture they are all evergreen, but to attempt to maintain that level of moisture in a hot Summer is risky. The moisture is good if deep down at the roots, but if it rises to the rhizome while there is heat, the plant will succumb to bacterial rot. If the foliage is warm and wet it will get 'rust'. I have never found the embryo exposed by removal of the aril, except with rotten seeds. I have cut hundreds of seeds, and as pictured in my pictures on the thread on the Scottish Rock, the hillum end of the seed needs to be cut for forced germination, as I was taught it, to work. Peter (UK) On 15 November 2014 22:33, penstemon wrote: > > I studied the pictures on the SRGC forum before proceeding, but I decided > against cutting the seeds, because there weren't enough bandages in the > house. If you take a dental pick and gently pull off the aril, the embryo > is usually exposed. Sometimes it takes a little more effort, but that's > usually sufficient. > > I grow all the oncos outdoors in raised beds of sand and gravel. I even > water them in the summer, if I feel like it. Iris iberica and its ilk are > summer dormant (no leaves), but Iris paradoxa is practically evergreen. > From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <9AB54BBBCEFA4F75A95D6DDC694CC86C@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:19:37 -0700 >In the literature, especially the rock garden literature, there are >articles (some of which read like calculus puzzles and kept me tied in >knots) discussing drainage. To make a long story short, I think it's >largely bunk as far as most summer dormant plants are concerned. It's complete bunk as far as anything having to do with plants is concerned, but seems to have some relevance growing plants in wet-winter climates. (I have the Deno quote about "drainage" right here on the laptop but am too lazy to include it.) As far as I know, onco species like Iris iberica, paradoxa, barnumae, etc., grow in climates almost identical to mine. I get a little more rain in July and August than do, say, Erzurum and Van. I suspect that the rain is delivered to the plants there as it is here, by thunderstorms, and all at once. The soil here never stays wet; it never rains all day, and it never rains in winter. (The only all-day precipitation we get here is in the form of snow, like today.) Nothing happens to the dormant irises here if they are rained on. The plants don't need any kind of protection (except from rabbits) or special cultivation techniques. Growth in spring starts after the snow melts, with occasional rain and hail precipitation "events". The hail sometimes destroys flower buds, which is extremely annoying. (Understatement.) Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:30:47 +0000 In wet winter climates, "fast drainage" is very necessary to facilitate the quick drying which other climates experience. In Britain we can experience Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter in a 24 hour period. Peter (UK) On 15 November 2014 23:19, penstemon wrote: > > In the literature, especially the rock garden literature, there are >> articles (some of which read like calculus puzzles and kept me tied in >> knots) discussing drainage. To make a long story short, I think it's >> largely bunk as far as most summer dormant plants are concerned. >> > > It's complete bunk as far as anything having to do with plants is > concerned, but seems to have some relevance growing plants in wet-winter > climates. > From robin@no1bird.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <5467E23B.8010105@no1bird.net> From: Robin Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:31:07 -0500 ?????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????????? On 11/15/2014 6:19 PM, penstemon wrote: > >> In the literature, especially the rock garden literature, there are >> articles (some of which read like calculus puzzles and kept me tied >> in knots) discussing drainage. To make a long story short, I think >> it's largely bunk as far as most summer dormant plants are concerned. > > It's complete bunk as far as anything having to do with plants is > concerned, but seems to have some relevance growing plants in > wet-winter climates. (I have the Deno quote about "drainage" right > here on the laptop but am too lazy to include it.) > As far as I know, onco species like Iris iberica, paradoxa, barnumae, > etc., grow in climates almost identical to mine. I get a little more > rain in July and August than do, say, Erzurum and Van. > I suspect that the rain is delivered to the plants there as it is > here, by thunderstorms, and all at once. The soil here never stays > wet; it never rains all day, and it never rains in winter. (The only > all-day precipitation we get here is in the form of snow, like today.) > Nothing happens to the dormant irises here if they are rained on. The > plants don't need any kind of protection (except from rabbits) or > special cultivation techniques. > Growth in spring starts after the snow melts, with occasional rain and > hail precipitation "events". The hail sometimes destroys flower buds, > which is extremely annoying. (Understatement.) > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 23:42:28 +0000 The product which I know as "sillica sand" in the UK, is a very fine sand which is very fast draining. Soft sand / builders sand is quite different and used for mixing mortar, it is unsuitable for horticultural use. The sand for potting mixes or for plunge beds, (apart from the expensive "silica sand"), is known variously as coarse/ gritty/ concrete sand. Peter (UK) From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:50:07 -0700 >In wet winter climates, "fast drainage" is very necessary to facilitate the quick drying which other climates experience. In Britain we can experience Spring, Summer, Autumn, and Winter in a 24 hour period. And I bet that this requirement has been misappropriated for cultivation techniques in semi-arid and arid environments. (No, I don't bet; I know it has.) Here's the Deno quote, from Seed Germination, Theory and Practice. "It is appropriate hereto clarify one of the most pernicious misconceptions in the horticultural literature, namely the subject of drainage. Growing roots are actively consuming oxygen. It is easy for them to be asphyxiated if the oxygen pressure is reduced below the 0.2 atmospheres that is present in the air. The susceptibility varies in different species. This subject is misunderstood to an incredible degree in the horticulture literature. The word drainage is like a drumbeat punctuating every paragraph. In fact a plant cannot possible care whether water drains fast or slow over the roots. What is critical is the supply or more precisely the pressure of oxygen. The word drainage should be crossed out throughout the horticultural literature and replaced by the word aeration. The misunderstanding arose because media that drain well usually are porous with 10-30% free air space so that they remain aerobic. What has happened in the horticultural literature is that an aeration requirement became misinterpreted as a drainage requirement. It can be added that if drainage were essential, plants could never be grown by hydroponics." Bob From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <45CEAB111CBA44CC98F1774ADE35B1FB@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: cutting onco seeds - forced germination Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:59:12 -0700 >I have never found the embryo exposed by removal of the aril, except with rotten seeds. I have cut hundreds of seeds, and as pictured in my pictures on the thread on the Scottish Rock, the hillum end of the seed needs to be cut for forced germination, as I was taught it, to work. Oh great. So I did this backwards. It wouldn’t be the first time. The seeds still do germinate, though. But, yes, if the aril is removed, the embryo is quite visible. I did find some rotten seeds in the bunch; brown, obviously-dead embryos. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: James Waddick Subject: WAS: Sand for potting mixes NOW 'Silica Sand" Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:01:02 -0600 Dear Dell, At my local Lowe’s home store, you can buy play sand, builder's sand and tube sand. Basically all the same as a coarse tan ‘sand. One can also buy ‘Silica Sand” that is marked as “Pure Silica’. It is finer grained and almost pure white. I believe it is used for sand blasting. I bought some for making hypertufa troughs (although I can’t imagine why.) Can’t say that Silica Sand drains better or worse than beach sand, builder sand etc, but it is definitely distinct and more expensive at Lowe’s. And I can’t think of using it to pot any thing all by itself, but I have a sand bed of 100% builder’s sand and some things do marvelously well there. Does that help or confuse? Jim On Nov 15, 2014, at 3:39 PM, ds429@frontier.com wrote: > I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb potting mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I try to find very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. The best stuff I found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” Isn’t sand generally a silicate mineral anyway? > > > Dell > > > > > > > Sent from Windows Mail > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From teck11@embarqmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <00c901d00133$e6f85a60$b4e90f20$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:26:01 -0500 I think any sand from a fresh-water stream will be silica or silicate. The aragonite is from seashells crushed by tides. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of penstemon Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 5:08 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Sand for potting mixes >I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb >potting mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I >try to find very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. >The best stuff I found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” >Isn’t sand generally a silicate mineral anyway? I would have said yes, but a quick check of the apparently-omniscient Wikipedia says that silica sand is the most common form of sand, followed by sand from calcium carbonate (aragonite). The sand I use is the stuff called "paving sand"; comes in bags. The grains aren't uniform in size. Bob _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <0BB6D180-31C9-4585-945D-741DC96F5632@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: arilate irises was bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:47:36 -0500 Robin I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away if The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion group. I do not know what the outcome of the recent survey that Nhu took will be but I hope that will be the result. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: cutting onco seeds - forced germination Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 16:48:36 -0800 Peter wrote: >With the right amount of moisture they are all evergreen, but to attempt >to maintain that level of moisture in a hot Summer is risky. The moisture >is good if deep down at the roots, but if it rises to the rhizome while >there is heat, the plant will succumb to bacterial rot. If the foliage is >warm and wet it will get 'rust'. That helps to explain why my aril irises are doing so well now that they are "loose" in covered but fully ventilated raised sand beds. There is some capillary action that brings moisture up from the subsoil, which is separated from the sand only by a woven groundcloth to keep out moles. Juno irises are also responding very well to this new home. The foliage is never warm and wet here; indeed that is a rule I follow with almost all my geophytes. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From myixia1@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Pamela Slate Subject: WAS sand for potting mixes NOW "Silica Sand" Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:49:11 -0700 Deall, I have personally used silica sand for sand blasting.....and with very great care. I had to wear an industrial dust mask and a hood. It can be very nasty stuff for the lungs and you'll find that info easily online. I doubt particle size matters since it's all very fine. I believe I once saw some of kind of condition called "silicosis" but you'd need to check yourself. For me, it's best and broadest uses are industrial, should stay that way and finding any possible alternative for using with potted or other landscape plants is preferable. Isn't it used in Quickcrete? I hope you can find something like coarse pumice or sharp sand or grit of some kind, mabe Dry Stall. Good luck, Pamela From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <009001d00139$c4ba6d20$4e2f4760$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 19:08:01 -0600 Has anyone found a bagged sand in the US at a local supplier? I was hoping that the 'Handy Sand' bought at Menards (Pure white, washed and dried silica sand Use for Portland, mason's and plaster mixes or patio block bedding and joint fill) would suit. I haven't wanted to go to a quarry as of yet..... Thanks, Lisa -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ds429@frontier.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 3:39 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [pbs] Sand for potting mixes I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb potting mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I try to find very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. The best stuff I found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” Isn’t sand generally a silicate mineral anyway? Dell Sent from Windows Mail _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: silica sand- CAUTION Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 17:10:30 -0800 Silica sand comes in a number of grades from sugar-like (#30) to chicken grit-like (#12). It is usually used for sandblasting and is regulated by OSHA as a hazardous material because of the fine dust that can cause silicosis in the lungs. I believe the signal word is WARNING. (Perlite, by contrast, has what is officially regarded as a nuisance dust). Any silica sand user must abate the risk with rated respirators and follow all precautions given before use. Years ago, when I saw a very good collection of species Hippeastrum growing in mostly silica sand and coarse black lava rock, I decided to try it for bulbs more sensitive to rotting. My impression after a few years was that it did yield better results than the general purpose river sand that is commonly sold for concrete work. Silica sand is almost entirely free of silt and clay and the sharply angular grains seem to be favored by bulb roots that attach to them. I would mix this sand, usually #20, with pumice and less than 15% organic matter. I still like its performance very much but eventually the health risk outweighed horticultural benefits. Subsequently I did a little looking into what types of silica sand there are, looking for an angle because resuming the use of river sand was somewhat disappointing. From recollection, there are about a dozen recognized types of crystalline silica sand and a few types of amorphous (non-crystalline) silica sand. It is the former that poses the danger, while amorphous sand is not a health risk. This is due to the microscopic structure of the particles (invisible to the naked eye) that are sharp and abrasive in the crystalline types of silica sand. Translating this information into product sourcing is still a work in progress. Currently I am happy with a "play sand" that is similar to silica sand in appearance. It is nearly colorless and very clean, with a grade a little coarser than table salt. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From teck11@embarqmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 18:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <00dd01d0013d$d9c2a7b0$8d47f710$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:37:13 -0500 As far as I know, the only sand sold is silica sand (although they do sell a gravel grade for sand mounds that is typically limestone which has the same empirical formula as aragonite). None of this is dangerous silicosis-wise in itself as it is far too coarse. If it is used for sandblasting, it creates new dust which is dangerous. And if you expect to be mixing it dry, you should probably wash the sand or buy a washed sand that has the dust removed as in play-box sand. Concrete sand has varying size particles which has less bulk porosity than a single-sized sand. As the size of the sand grains diminishes, the porosity will shift from air porosity to water porosity. Silica is slightly acid while aragonite is somewhat alkaline. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of ds429@frontier.com Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 5:20 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Sand for potting mixes So, I suspect that calcium carbonate sand might change the pH, and that is why it is undesirable for potting mixes? Dell Sent from Windows Mail From: penstemon Sent: ‎Saturday‎, ‎November‎ ‎15‎, ‎2014 ‎5‎:‎07‎ ‎PM To: Pacific Bulb Society >I have heard for years that one needs to use “silica sand” for bulb >potting mixes. I wonder how “silica sand” differs from other sand. I >try to find very coarse sand because it is not as likely to compact. >The best stuff I found was from a stream bed. But was it “silica sand?” >Isn’t sand generally a silicate mineral anyway? I would have said yes, but a quick check of the apparently-omniscient Wikipedia says that silica sand is the most common form of sand, followed by sand from calcium carbonate (aragonite). The sand I use is the stuff called "paving sand"; comes in bags. The grains aren't uniform in size. Bob _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <546819AB.6020309@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:27:39 -0500 See what happens when you don't eat enough fresh vegetables. Haven't been in Denver for decades. Arrived the day before my conference session. Went for a drive out to Rocky Mountain National Park. Found a Melanistic Tassel-Eared Squirrel dead on the highway. Stayed up way too late at night making a study skin. The nonsensical bickering on this list over the past weeks far too closely resembles that which we saw on the IBS Bulb Robin bfore it crashed and burned. Stephen H. Putman, Ph.D. Delaware On 11/15/2014 4:23 PM, penstemon wrote: > Now to work up the courage to cut them. > > > The seeds were soaked in a solution of fifty percent bleach and > distilled water for about fifteen minutes. The seeds were then > thoroughly rinsed, with distilled water, and put into salt shakers > (purchased expressly for this purpose), water changed every day, for > four or five days. > Then the arils were removed using a dental pick, making sure that the > embryo was exposed. The seeds were put in freezer bags with some > perlite, and put in the crisper drawer. (Thereby decreasing my intake of > fresh vegetables.) > One of the Iris urumiensis (JJA 600.600) germinated about a month ago. I > transplanted it, and it grew. Then I had the bright idea of > transplanting it to a pot of pure sand, thinking that the sand would dry > out faster, thereby preventing rot. Then I had the even brighter idea of > watering it, since the oncos in the garden display none of the > hydrophobia so often mentioned in the literature. The sand refused to > dry out (it must have been some new miracle sand), and the leaves > started browning at the tips. > So I transplanted the poor seedling again, into to my standard seed > starting mix. Today, with my usual skill, I accidentally knocked the pot > over, dislodging the root from the tiny rhizome. > I won't describe what happened to the other two seedlings. > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Steven Subject: This is a BULB list. Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:59:47 +1000 Hahaha...... Well said Colleen : ) ...Treats 4 Dogs... On 16/11/2014, at 3:31 AM, "Colleen" wrote: > Easy, just bring up a new topic. > > Colleen > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of James Waddick > Sent: Saturday, November 15, 2014 7:58 AM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [pbs] This is a BULB list. > > Friends, > Haven't we ranted enough about bees, GMOs and regulations? > Let's get rid of politics and soap boxes and return to BULBS and such. > THANKS Jim W. > > James Waddick > 8871 NW Brostrom Rd > Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 > USA > Phone 816-746-1949 > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From penstemon@Q.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <1A24FBF7A1AD4C45B2606B954709700E@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sat, 15 Nov 2014 21:15:24 -0700 >See what happens when you don't eat enough fresh vegetables. If I hadn't killed the three seedlings I germinated, it wouldn't be so bad. I suppose the seed I have is over ten years old, and maybe not so much of it is viable. In which case, I germinated the only viable seeds, and then killed them. Irises are more interesting than vegetables. My understanding (undoubtedly limited) of seed coat nicking is that its purpose is to let in water, so it probably doesn't make much difference where the cut is made. It is mildly galling to realize that possibly the only place colder than my garden is the South Pole. -13C right now. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From petersirises@gmail.com Sat, 15 Nov 2014 22:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 06:14:52 +0000 With this method of forced germination the seed coat and aril are removed as minor obsticals. It is not about "seed coat nicking" The important cut is actually through the hillum (pointed) end of the seed. The slice to be cut of needs to be thick enough to leave a tiny hole showing in the cut surface where the ebryo (? radical) will protrude. on a large seed the slice could be nearly as thick as blotting paper. I put all the pictures to explain the procedure on the Scotthish Rock Garden Club Forum Thead here http://www.srgc.net/forum/index.php?topic=6450.0 The razor blade is for cutting the actual seed - not for cutting the seed coat. Peter (UK) On 16 November 2014 04:15, penstemon wrote: > My understanding (undoubtedly limited) of seed coat nicking is that its > purpose is to let in water, so it probably doesn't make much difference > where the cut is made. > > It is mildly galling to realize that possibly the only place colder than > my garden is the South Pole. -13C right now. > > > Bob Nold > Denver, Colorado > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From penstemon@Q.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <4ED59DFBDE564D31A9880B7A3D03380C@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 08:21:35 -0700 >The important cut is actually through the hillum (pointed) end of the seed. The slice to be cut of needs to be thick enough to leave a tiny hole showing in the cut surface where the ebryo (? radical) will protrude. on a large seed the slice could be nearly as thick as blotting paper. Oh. Thanks. I can be extremely slow at times. I did look at the photos, and then looked at Deno's first supplement last night, and suddenly it dawned on me. You cut the actual seed. Well no wonder the things haven't germinated. Never mind the rant, then. Bob From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <5468E69A.5020505@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:02:02 +0000 Hi, Not to be take too seriously... On 16/11/2014 03:27, Stephen Putman wrote: > The nonsensical bickering on this list over the past weeks far too > closely resembles that which we saw on the IBS Bulb Robin bfore it > crashed and burned. As Talleyrand said "they had learned nothing and forgotten nothing". On 16/11/2014 00:47, Kenneth wrote: > I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away > if The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion > group. The thing worrying me about a forum is who will run it. I look at forums and there's always one person or two who have many thousand posts to their name. What makes the SRGC forum such a success - Maggi Young. The PBS has had difficulty getting anyone to edit the paper based newsletter. The PBS wiki is now stalled for lack of contributors. We have to do something new that will make you happy. I'd like to hear from the people who are going to put in 10 hours a week on the admin side of a forum - deleting spam, helping new users, putting names to all the photos people upload without names etc. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From silkie@frontiernet.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <013701d001cb$d0e4aa60$72adff20$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 10:33:27 -0800 I must have missed the voting, but I hope it stays a list and not a forum! There has been discussion about wanting new members and a forum is like putting everything behind a wall. If some want a specialized topic, start a list, or forum, for that, but leave this list as it is. As my 96 year old auntie says, "Nothing lasts forever" and this includes the different topics which may or may not appeal to a given person in the short term. Colleen in NE CA. 17 degrees F last night and way up to 34F as I write at 10:32 AM Pacific time. On 16/11/2014 00:47, Kenneth wrote: > I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away > if The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion > group. From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:38:46 -0500 Alas, some companies claim that Diamonds are Forever. Take that whichever way you want :) On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Colleen wrote: > > I must have missed the voting, but I hope it stays a list and not a forum! > There has been discussion about wanting new members and a forum is like > putting everything behind a wall. If some want a specialized topic, start > a > list, or forum, for that, but leave this list as it is. As my 96 year old > auntie says, "Nothing lasts forever" and this includes the different topics > which may or may not appeal to a given person in the short term. > > Colleen in NE CA. 17 degrees F last night and way up to 34F as I write at > 10:32 AM Pacific time. > > > On 16/11/2014 00:47, Kenneth wrote: > > I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away > if > The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion > group. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From genus1954@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jyl Tuck Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:01:57 -0800 I'm new to the PBS but not to a love of plants. I have used a cheap easily found chicken grit for the plants that I have needing quick draining soil. So when joining this BX I have used the same chicken grit in pots with bulbs after looking up their needs and their environments from where they came. It has worked well so far. I tried sand from the Fraser River and local fresh water lake beaches and store bought and they always compacted or dried out quickly in the past which led me to the chicken grit. I don't know if this would work for your iris,( I'm no expert ) but my plants have always thrived even in my flower beds putting a layer under Eremerus,ect. to save them from our rain forest B.C. climate. I struggled looking for proper soil requirements ------ not wanting to waste money or plants, so maybe this will help someone else. I've traded seeds for years to the UK and always labelled them' Seeds of no commercial value' without any trouble. jyl From xerics@cox.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <002301d001da$2827ce20$78776a60$@net> From: "richard" Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:16:07 -0800 Look for "A1" Grit which is a graded granite product with angular surfaces. It is used in roofing as a mineral coat. Size around 1 mm. to 0.5 mm. I use it to cover seeds to prevent washing and discourage fungus gnats. Around here, feed stores carry it. Richard Vista CA -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jyl Tuck Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 12:02 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] Sand for potting mixes I'm new to the PBS but not to a love of plants. I have used a cheap easily found chicken grit for the plants that I have needing quick draining soil. So when joining this BX I have used the same chicken grit in pots with bulbs after looking up their needs and their environments from where they came. It has worked well so far. I tried sand from the Fraser River and local fresh water lake beaches and store bought and they always compacted or dried out quickly in the past which led me to the chicken grit. I don't know if this would work for your iris,( I'm no expert ) but my plants have always thrived even in my flower beds putting a layer under Eremerus,ect. to save them from our rain forest B.C. climate. I struggled looking for proper soil requirements ------ not wanting to waste money or plants, so maybe this will help someone else. I've traded seeds for years to the UK and always labelled them' Seeds of no commercial value' without any trouble. jyl From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:19:42 -0800 I agree with David Pilling that a forum would require too much volunteer effort for our small group to provide, especially if, like the wiki, it admitted posts only by paying PBS members. Many people do not realize that a large number of those who post to this list are not paying members; this is an option offered on the website. PBS currently has fewer than 400 paying members, whose dues allow them to participate in the wiki and the BX. If you want to post your photos so people on the list can see them readily, one option is to join PBS and use our wiki, one of the most frequently visited bulb photo sites on the web. If you join now, you will be paid up through 2015. I think it is a lot more trouble to participate in a forum, however well it may be managed, than to delete uninteresting emails by glancing at the subject lines in your mailbox and clicking the trash can. Jane McGary Membership Coordinator, PBS At 10:02 AM 11/16/2014, you wrote: The thing worrying me about a forum is who will run it. >I look at forums and there's always one person or two who have many >thousand posts to their name. What makes the SRGC forum such a >success - Maggi Young. > >The PBS has had difficulty getting anyone to edit the paper based >newsletter. The PBS wiki is now stalled for lack of contributors. > >We have to do something new that will make you happy. > >I'd like to hear from the people who are going to put in 10 hours a >week on the admin side of a forum - deleting spam, helping new >users, putting names to all the photos people upload without names etc. >- >David Pilling >www.davidpilling.com From penstemon@Q.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <89B8EE6A7EDC4B078C0D951722D7445B@bobPC> From: "penstemon" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:24:15 -0700 >As Talleyrand said "they had learned nothing and forgotten nothing". That would be me. Now that I've figured out that I have to slice the endosperm to reveal the embryo, suddenly it all makes sense. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 12:25:25 -0800 We are still seeking someone to edit The Bulb Garden, the PBS printed newsletter. If we can't find an editor, we will have to discontinue this service. Perhaps those of you who participate in this list don't care whether you get a printed newsletter, and those who do care may not use the internet much. Is this so? I do know that some of our members who are relatively new to bulb growing value the Bulb Garden for its accessible articles and photos, and it is a useful way of transmitting the activities of the PBS board to members who wouldn't think of looking such reports up otherwise. The board has discussed launching a separate, online-only journal, but if we can't maintain the print newsletter, that may be the only source for such information in the future. We will all welcome comments, especially from the paying members who receive the Bulb Garden now. Is it a "make or break" incentive to pay dues? Is the BX such an incentive? What other privileges would be? Jane McGary Membership Coordinator, PBS From myixia1@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Pamela Slate Subject: Appendaged stamen Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:27:56 -0700 Would someone please define this term for me? I'm asking because I've submitted photos of Hessea Stellaris for the wiki. Seeds are forming and I was curious about pollinators of this plant. When I looked in The Color Encyclopedia of Cape Bulbs, the authors state: "Several of the species, especially those with appendaged stamens, are pollinated by flies, but the remainder are probably pollinated by bees and other insects." See the last of the newly posted photos of H.stellars, second row: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Hessea Thanks for the help, Pamela From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Sand for potting mixes Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:55:52 -0700 Sand sold for construction purposes can vary a lot between different US states. Transportation costs for dense materials are substantial, so it tends to be mined not far from where it will be sold. I have noticed the masonry sand sold here in metro Phoenix at big-box stores and specialized masonry suppliers is very different from that sold in southern California. The low desert in Arizona has streambeds full of many different rock types. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Appendaged stamen Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:00:15 -0700 > Would someone please define [Appendaged stamen] for me? This would be a stamen with additional tissue attached. Most stamens are filaments, but some plants have fringes, membranes or multiple additional filaments attached to the stamens. I believe some Hessea and Strumaria have these. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From othonna@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: Appendaged stamen Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:03:40 -0800 Pamela, A stamen appendage would be an "extra" structure on a stamen, which normally consists of only the filament and the anther. They may be simple or elaborate, colored (or not), textured (or not), etc. The evolutionary origin of these structures varies (fusion with staminodes, outgrowth of filament, fusion with tepals, etc.) so that in one group of plants the appendage may be something very different in its anatomy and function than in another group. Different terminology is used as well depending on the group and on origin and degree of fusion, e.g., cup or paraperigone in Hymenocallis and Narcissus. Snijman (1994) in treating the Hessea group notes some Hessea species have filaments with an "adaxial hook" and this would be a type of appendage. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:16:31 -0800 Jane, I agree while heartedly. Karl Church Dinuba zone 9b On Nov 16, 2014 12:26 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > I agree with David Pilling that a forum would require too much volunteer > effort for our small group to provide, especially if, like the wiki, it > admitted posts only by paying PBS members. Many people do not realize that > a large number of those who post to this list are not paying members; this > is an option offered on the website. PBS currently has fewer than 400 > paying members, whose dues allow them to participate in the wiki and the BX. > > If you want to post your photos so people on the list can see them > readily, one option is to join PBS and use our wiki, one of the most > frequently visited bulb photo sites on the web. If you join now, you will > be paid up through 2015. > > I think it is a lot more trouble to participate in a forum, however well > it may be managed, than to delete uninteresting emails by glancing at the > subject lines in your mailbox and clicking the trash can. > > > Jane McGary > Membership Coordinator, PBS > > At 10:02 AM 11/16/2014, you wrote: > The thing worrying me about a forum is who will run it. > > I look at forums and there's always one person or two who have many >> thousand posts to their name. What makes the SRGC forum such a success - >> Maggi Young. >> >> The PBS has had difficulty getting anyone to edit the paper based >> newsletter. The PBS wiki is now stalled for lack of contributors. >> >> We have to do something new that will make you happy. >> >> I'd like to hear from the people who are going to put in 10 hours a week >> on the admin side of a forum - deleting spam, helping new users, putting >> names to all the photos people upload without names etc. >> - >> David Pilling >> www.davidpilling.com >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From msittner@mcn.org Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20141116212304.EB79623DE0@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: List/ Forum/Wiki Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:24:04 -0800 I'd like to correct with Jane posted. The wiki has always been available as a place to add photos. You didn't have to be a member of the Pacific Bulb Society and for that matter not even to the pbs list if you knew someone on the list who was willing to add your photos. When we started the wiki, it was the time of slow internet connections (still true in rural parts of the United States) and viruses attached to spam. We decided not to allow attachments for that reason, but still wanted to have people be able to post photos. I was frustrated to find photos on the Internet with no information about them and thought it would be helpful to have a information about the photos and a way easily to retrieve them later. And so we settled on the wiki and asked people who added photos to it to write something about their photos and add them to a page. In the beginning a lot of people contributed, but we didn't require a password and all kinds of bizarre things got uploaded. Mark McDonough and I spent a lot of time removing these things. When the spam bots discovered a way to add all kinds of spam to the wiki pages we had to add a password as spam got added faster than I could restore pages. When that wiki was no longer supported, we needed a new one and some people didn't make the transition. Learning how to use the wiki has been challenging for some people. Once you learn it, adding a new photo only takes a few minutes, but most people lose interest before they get to that stage. So that has left all the work to a few people. Before I retired I was spending quite a lot of time each day helping others, fixing mistakes, adding information sometimes contributed by others, etc. I expect that David Pilling is doing the same now. People are often willing to let you copy their photos and add them, but often these photos come without any information so it's not just a question of adding them, it's a question of doing research about the photo. If we had started with a forum or two lists with people sending their photos as attachments on one, we wouldn't have the wiki now. So there are trade offs with any decision made. There is already an outstanding forum for discussing bulbs as many of the people on this list know as they contribute to it and it is the Scottish Rock Garden forum and as David Pilling says it has an amazing woman who manages it. If only we could clone her. The Pacific Bulb Society does not need to reinvent something that already exists. More people want to keep the list as it is than change, but people also would like to share their photos more easily than adding them to the wiki. I have wondered if there would be a way to make the wiki more accessible. I personally like having a link to photos. That way I can look at the ones I am interested and skip others. Sometimes people have sent links to pictures and posts they have added to the Scottish Rock Garden bulb forum and perhaps that would be a solution for people who don't wish to learn how to use the wiki or add photos to one of the free online bulb storage sites (Flickr, Photobucket, Google Images, etc.) and provide a link. Having more than one way to communicate about bulbs I think is a good thing. Mary Sue From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 13:33:07 -0800 Jane, If there's no editor for the printed version how will you manage an online only newsletter? As a paying member, I appreciate the print version but would accept an online version over having no newsletter. Karl Church Dinuba, zone 9b On Nov 16, 2014 12:26 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > We are still seeking someone to edit The Bulb Garden, the PBS printed > newsletter. If we can't find an editor, we will have to discontinue this > service. > > Perhaps those of you who participate in this list don't care whether you > get a printed newsletter, and those who do care may not use the internet > much. Is this so? > > I do know that some of our members who are relatively new to bulb growing > value the Bulb Garden for its accessible articles and photos, and it is a > useful way of transmitting the activities of the PBS board to members who > wouldn't think of looking such reports up otherwise. > > The board has discussed launching a separate, online-only journal, but if > we can't maintain the print newsletter, that may be the only source for > such information in the future. > > We will all welcome comments, especially from the paying members who > receive the Bulb Garden now. Is it a "make or break" incentive to pay dues? > Is the BX such an incentive? What other privileges would be? > > Jane McGary > Membership Coordinator, PBS > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <007d01d001e6$598468a0$0c8d39e0$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: List/ Forum/Wiki Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:43:24 -0600 It would be interesting to see if PBS polled the group on just that one item; allow photos in a post or not. I didn't know it was an option for this group and would really like to see pics. As with emails that are OT; one can just skip viewing pics they don't want to see. Thanks to all who have contributed to the topic and asking the question in the first place. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Mary Sue Ittner Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 3:24 PM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: [pbs] List/ Forum/Wiki I'd like to correct with Jane posted. The wiki has always been available as a place to add photos. You didn't have to be a member of the Pacific Bulb Society and for that matter not even to the pbs list if you knew someone on the list who was willing to add your photos. When we started the wiki, it was the time of slow internet connections (still true in rural parts of the United States) and viruses attached to spam. We decided not to allow attachments for that reason, but still wanted to have people be able to post photos. I was frustrated to find photos on the Internet with no information about them and thought it would be helpful to have a information about the photos and a way easily to retrieve them later. And so we settled on the wiki and asked people who added photos to it to write something about their photos and add them to a page. In the beginning a lot of people contributed, but we didn't require a password and all kinds of bizarre things got uploaded. Mark McDonough and I spent a lot of time removing these things. When the spam bots discovered a way to add all kinds of spam to the wiki pages we had to add a password as spam got added faster than I could restore pages. When that wiki was no longer supported, we needed a new one and some people didn't make the transition. Learning how to use the wiki has been challenging for some people. Once you learn it, adding a new photo only takes a few minutes, but most people lose interest before they get to that stage. So that has left all the work to a few people. Before I retired I was spending quite a lot of time each day helping others, fixing mistakes, adding information sometimes contributed by others, etc. I expect that David Pilling is doing the same now. People are often willing to let you copy their photos and add them, but often these photos come without any information so it's not just a question of adding them, it's a question of doing research about the photo. If we had started with a forum or two lists with people sending their photos as attachments on one, we wouldn't have the wiki now. So there are trade offs with any decision made. There is already an outstanding forum for discussing bulbs as many of the people on this list know as they contribute to it and it is the Scottish Rock Garden forum and as David Pilling says it has an amazing woman who manages it. If only we could clone her. The Pacific Bulb Society does not need to reinvent something that already exists. More people want to keep the list as it is than change, but people also would like to share their photos more easily than adding them to the wiki. I have wondered if there would be a way to make the wiki more accessible. I personally like having a link to photos. That way I can look at the ones I am interested and skip others. Sometimes people have sent links to pictures and posts they have added to the Scottish Rock Garden bulb forum and perhaps that would be a solution for people who don't wish to learn how to use the wiki or add photos to one of the free online bulb storage sites (Flickr, Photobucket, Google Images, etc.) and provide a link. Having more than one way to communicate about bulbs I think is a good thing. Mary Sue From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <546923CC.60208@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:23:08 -0500 Jane, I very much enjoy The Bulb Garden, and consider it to be one of the best of its sort of publication as well as not making the (in the long term, futile) attempt to be a thick publication of record (for which a notable and stable endowment is probably necessary), but still providing quite useful and authoritative articles. Even so, I am not in a position to make and keep a promise of volunteering to edit it. While I value TBG, its absence would not cause me to drop my PBS membership. More data is needed here in advance of any major decisions. For example, how would members respond to a choice of an electronic media version of TBG included in membership, and hard print copy available with membership at an additional charge. Now, how much would it cost do these things, and what variations do others think of? For me, the seed and bulb exchange are very important. The on line website and wiki are very important. The The on line discussion is important. If we moved to a different host could we formulate a way to make a bit of money on commission from non-commercial plant material and/or literature sales, etc.? Regards, and by the way, thanks for all your work on this for all these years. Stephen Putman On 11/16/2014 3:25 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > We are still seeking someone to edit The Bulb Garden, the PBS printed > newsletter. If we can't find an editor, we will have to discontinue this > service. > > Perhaps those of you who participate in this list don't care whether you > get a printed newsletter, and those who do care may not use the internet > much. Is this so? > > I do know that some of our members who are relatively new to bulb > growing value the Bulb Garden for its accessible articles and photos, > and it is a useful way of transmitting the activities of the PBS board > to members who wouldn't think of looking such reports up otherwise. > > The board has discussed launching a separate, online-only journal, but > if we can't maintain the print newsletter, that may be the only source > for such information in the future. > > We will all welcome comments, especially from the paying members who > receive the Bulb Garden now. Is it a "make or break" incentive to pay > dues? Is the BX such an incentive? What other privileges would be? > > Jane McGary > Membership Coordinator, PBS > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 14:59:01 -0800 Karl asked >If there's no editor for the printed version how will you manage an online >only newsletter? As a paying member, I appreciate the print version but >would accept an online version over having no newsletter. One option we are considering for an online journal is occasional rather than scheduled, deadline-based publication. This is my own preference and would offer the opportunity to print longer, sometimes more technical articles as well as the contributions that now appear in the Bulb Garden, along with some features typical of disciplinary journals, such as a list of articles of interest in other journals. There is a committee discussing options and we will report to the members in a couple of months. The staff could have both a corresponding editor and a copyeditor, as well as someone to do the formatting for posting online. Jane McGary From teck11@embarqmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <009501d001f0$f40791e0$dc16b5a0$@embarqmail.com> From: "Tim Eck" Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:59:17 -0500 Diamonds are thermodynamically unstable at atmospheric pressure and room temperature - graphite is the stable form. -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jude Haverington Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:39 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] bulb rant Alas, some companies claim that Diamonds are Forever. Take that whichever way you want :) On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Colleen wrote: > > I must have missed the voting, but I hope it stays a list and not a forum! > There has been discussion about wanting new members and a forum is > like putting everything behind a wall. If some want a specialized > topic, start a list, or forum, for that, but leave this list as it is. > As my 96 year old auntie says, "Nothing lasts forever" and this > includes the different topics which may or may not appeal to a given > person in the short term. > > Colleen in NE CA. 17 degrees F last night and way up to 34F as I > write at > 10:32 AM Pacific time. > > > On 16/11/2014 00:47, Kenneth wrote: > > I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away > > if The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion > group. > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 15:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: bulb rant Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:04:27 -0500 So, pencils are forever. That makes more sense to me! On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 5:59 PM, Tim Eck wrote: > Diamonds are thermodynamically unstable at atmospheric pressure and room > temperature - graphite is the stable form. > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Jude > Haverington > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 1:39 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] bulb rant > > Alas, some companies claim that Diamonds are Forever. > > Take that whichever way you want :) > > > On Sun, Nov 16, 2014 at 1:33 PM, Colleen wrote: > > > > > I must have missed the voting, but I hope it stays a list and not a > forum! > > There has been discussion about wanting new members and a forum is > > like putting everything behind a wall. If some want a specialized > > topic, start a list, or forum, for that, but leave this list as it is. > > As my 96 year old auntie says, "Nothing lasts forever" and this > > includes the different topics which may or may not appeal to a given > > person in the short term. > > > > Colleen in NE CA. 17 degrees F last night and way up to 34F as I > > write at > > 10:32 AM Pacific time. > > > > > > On 16/11/2014 00:47, Kenneth wrote: > > > I believe/hope that the frustration with rants would/will go away > > > if The List becomes a Forum instead of a Email based discussion > > group. > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 16:52:52 -0800 Thanks Jane On Nov 16, 2014 3:07 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > Karl asked > >> If there's no editor for the printed version how will you manage an online >> only newsletter? As a paying member, I appreciate the print version but >> would accept an online version over having no newsletter. >> > > One option we are considering for an online journal is occasional rather > than scheduled, deadline-based publication. This is my own preference and > would offer the opportunity to print longer, sometimes more technical > articles as well as the contributions that now appear in the Bulb Garden, > along with some features typical of disciplinary journals, such as a list > of articles of interest in other journals. There is a committee discussing > options and we will report to the members in a couple of months. The staff > could have both a corresponding editor and a copyeditor, as well as someone > to do the formatting for posting online. > > Jane McGary > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tiede@pacbell.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <000101d00204$22a94df0$67fbe9d0$@net> From: "Bracey Tiede" Subject: [Bulk] Re: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:16:35 -0800 As a PBS member, I do enjoy the printed copy but an online publication is fine as well. As for a mailing list vs a forum for communications, I strongly prefer the mailing list. As has been mentioned a forum requires a great deal of management time and usually one person ends up 'owning' it, creating either a welcoming group or a not so welcoming group. I've seen both kinds. Aside from occasional rants that I can ignore, this group is amazingly calm and even handed on postings and responses. I absolutely treasure the wiki and all the incredible knowledge within it. Bravo to every person who has contributed to it. Cheers, Bracey San Jose CA USDA 9B/Sunset 16 -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karl Church Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 4:53 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: [Bulk] Re: [pbs] Bulb Garden newsletter Thanks Jane On Nov 16, 2014 3:07 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > Karl asked > >> If there's no editor for the printed version how will you manage an online >> only newsletter? As a paying member, I appreciate the print version but >> would accept an online version over having no newsletter. >> > > One option we are considering for an online journal is occasional rather > than scheduled, deadline-based publication. This is my own preference and > would offer the opportunity to print longer, sometimes more technical > articles as well as the contributions that now appear in the Bulb Garden, > along with some features typical of disciplinary journals, such as a list > of articles of interest in other journals. There is a committee discussing > options and we will report to the members in a couple of months. The staff > could have both a corresponding editor and a copyeditor, as well as someone > to do the formatting for posting online. > > Jane McGary > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From 64kkmjr@gmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Karl Church <64kkmjr@gmail.com> Subject: [Bulk] Re: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 17:22:12 -0800 Braces, well said. Karl Church Dinuba zone 9b On Nov 16, 2014 5:16 PM, "Bracey Tiede" wrote: > As a PBS member, I do enjoy the printed copy but an online publication is > fine as well. > > As for a mailing list vs a forum for communications, I strongly prefer the > mailing list. As has been mentioned a forum requires a great deal of > management time and usually one person ends up 'owning' it, creating either > a welcoming group or a not so welcoming group. I've seen both kinds. Aside > from occasional rants that I can ignore, this group is amazingly calm and > even handed on postings and responses. > > I absolutely treasure the wiki and all the incredible knowledge within it. > Bravo to every person who has contributed to it. > > Cheers, > Bracey > San Jose CA USDA 9B/Sunset 16 > > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Karl Church > Sent: Sunday, November 16, 2014 4:53 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: [Bulk] Re: [pbs] Bulb Garden newsletter > > Thanks Jane > On Nov 16, 2014 3:07 PM, "Jane McGary" wrote: > > > Karl asked > > > >> If there's no editor for the printed version how will you manage an > online > >> only newsletter? As a paying member, I appreciate the print version but > >> would accept an online version over having no newsletter. > >> > > > > One option we are considering for an online journal is occasional rather > > than scheduled, deadline-based publication. This is my own preference and > > would offer the opportunity to print longer, sometimes more technical > > articles as well as the contributions that now appear in the Bulb Garden, > > along with some features typical of disciplinary journals, such as a list > > of articles of interest in other journals. There is a committee > discussing > > options and we will report to the members in a couple of months. The > staff > > could have both a corresponding editor and a copyeditor, as well as > someone > > to do the formatting for posting online. > > > > Jane McGary > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold140@verizon.net Sun, 16 Nov 2014 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <5914790.265643.1416189300084.JavaMail.root@vznit170130> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Bulb Garden newsletter Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:55:00 -0600 (CST) Stephen: As the person who has the BG printed and mailed it is a labor that I enjoy doing. I personally stamp each one so I can be sure it gets done. Printing houses have been too unreliable in the past. The hard part for us, the Board is the editing and getting it to me so I can send it off to a printer. We have had discussions about going the online version only, but that would take the folks out of the equation who don't have the fast broadband connections. Maybe some day. Arnold On 11/16/14, Stephen Putman wrote: Jane, I very much enjoy The Bulb Garden, and consider it to be one of the best of its sort of publication as well as not making the (in the long term, futile) attempt to be a thick publication of record (for which a notable and stable endowment is probably necessary), but still providing quite useful and authoritative articles. Even so, I am not in a position to make and keep a promise of volunteering to edit it. While I value TBG, its absence would not cause me to drop my PBS membership. More data is needed here in advance of any major decisions. For example, how would members respond to a choice of an electronic media version of TBG included in membership, and hard print copy available with membership at an additional charge. Now, how much would it cost do these things, and what variations do others think of? For me, the seed and bulb exchange are very important. The on line website and wiki are very important. The The on line discussion is important. If we moved to a different host could we formulate a way to make a bit of money on commission from non-commercial plant material and/or literature sales, etc.? Regards, and by the way, thanks for all your work on this for all these years. Stephen Putman On 11/16/2014 3:25 PM, Jane McGary wrote: > We are still seeking someone to edit The Bulb Garden, the PBS printed > newsletter. If we can't find an editor, we will have to discontinue this > service. > > Perhaps those of you who participate in this list don't care whether you > get a printed newsletter, and those who do care may not use the internet > much. Is this so? > > I do know that some of our members who are relatively new to bulb > growing value the Bulb Garden for its accessible articles and photos, > and it is a useful way of transmitting the activities of the PBS board > to members who wouldn't think of looking such reports up otherwise. > > The board has discussed launching a separate, online-only journal, but > if we can't maintain the print newsletter, that may be the only source > for such information in the future. > > We will all welcome comments, especially from the paying members who > receive the Bulb Garden now. Is it a "make or break" incentive to pay > dues? Is the BX such an incentive? What other privileges would be? > > Jane McGary > Membership Coordinator, PBS > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From ksayce@willapabay.org Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kathleen Sayce Subject: blog instead of printed journals? Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 19:04:13 -0800 Here’s my 2 cents on print versus digital: Last winter I was asked to be one of more than a dozen people writing every month or so (more in summer, less in winter) about Pacific Coast Iris for the AIS World of Iris blog. People are invited in for 2 years, usually, during which they write about 20 blogs. Initially I worried about what to write, that no one would read about my irises––PCI are a specialized sort of iris, after all, but now I typically get 500 reads per blog. PBS could have a rotating pool of writers for a PBS blog on bulbs, one article every other month, with photos. Might this be a workable alternative to a print journal? We could have writers rotate in and out by family, or some other mechanism, so that no one is burdened unduly for prolonged periods. Someone would still have to oversee this, as an editor, but it would be less work than producing a printed issue. Kathleen From dkramb@badbear.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <54696F97.1010203@badbear.com> From: dkramb Subject: yellow/pink Polianthes Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:46:31 -0500 Did anybody else buy those yellow or pink Polianthes that are new to the market? I bought some from Brent & Becky's Bulbs but they didn't bloom this season. I remembered to dig them up today before the sun went down, to bring them inside for winter. Lo & behold one of them had a bloom stem about 12 inches high. Everything above ground had been killed by the freezing weather we've had an night... but there was definitely a bloom stalk that would have flowered if the temps had stayed warm enough. But maybe even more exciting is all the new bulbs they created... I planted three big bulbs in spring, and six months later I've dug up 3 big bulbs with a multitude of smaller bulbs all the way around each one. Next year should be glorious! :-) Dennis in Cincinnati (where night time low temps are forecasted into the single digits (Fahrenheit) later this week) From cynthiasbulbs@hotmail.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 21:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Cynthia Mueller Subject: yellow/pink Polianthes Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 22:13:13 -0600 I purchased two of the new yellow Polianthes this year. They have attractive leaves but did not flower. We've had our first frost here in College Station Tx and tomorrow temperatures are slated to drop to 27F. I am assuming that in Zone 8B they will be ok if left in the garden. Surely by next summer they will bloom. -Cynthia Mueller Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 16, 2014, at 9:54 PM, "dkramb" wrote: > > Did anybody else buy those yellow or pink Polianthes that are new to the market? I bought some from Brent & Becky's Bulbs but they didn't bloom this season... > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.orgst.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From robin@hansennursery.com Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: "Robin Hansen" Subject: blog instead of printed journals? Date: Sun, 16 Nov 2014 20:15:41 -0800 I'll take paper every time. Aside from the fact that I can only physically handle sitting at the computer for short periods, paper can be easily picked up, set down, carried around, browsed, etc. as I have time. Not so with computers. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery North Bend, Oregon From ezeizabotgard@hotmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 05:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: From: Alberto Subject: blog instead of printed journals? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 12:20:01 +0000 Paper is a lot easier to handle as Robin says, despite the fact that so few seem to read The Bulb Garden. From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Electronic publication Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:57:35 -0700 A few years ago another organization to which I belong found that electronic-only publication costs almost the same as print publication. The layout, editing and quality assurance are the same. Leo Martin Zone ? Phoenix Arizona USA From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:01:45 -0700 One reason additions to the Wiki have slowed is that so many bulbs are already there. There aren't too many more about which something is known or photographs are available. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Electronic publication Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:02:34 -0500 Here's something some people may not have thought of. I thought that at least part of the reason we cannot share photos directly, is because a few folks in the group have primitive internet connections? If sharing a photo or two here and there is an issue, imagine what an electronic publication would do. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 9:57 AM, Leo Martin wrote: > A few years ago another organization to which I belong found that > electronic-only publication costs almost the same as print publication. The > layout, editing and quality assurance are the same. > > Leo Martin > Zone ? > Phoenix Arizona USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:08:34 -0500 My issue with the WIKI (etc.) is this; if somebody wants a plant identified, or wants to simply share something for enjoyment, it's a hassle to go over to another site, and try to find the photo that is being referred to, and then come back here to comment, and people will, then, have to go back there and find the photo that I am then referring to. (The same goes for posting something there, and then coming back and telling people to go find the photo that I had posted.) In my personal, humble opinion, it's a 3-step program that I don't want to partake in. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:01 AM, Leo Martin wrote: > One reason additions to the Wiki have slowed is that so many bulbs are > already there. There aren't too many more about which something is known or > photographs are available. > > Leo Martin > Zone 9? > Phoenix Arizona USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Wiki more useful than inline photos Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:10:46 -0700 The Wiki aggregates all our information in one place, making it much easier to find information. It would be much harder to find information and photos wading through the back digests. Speaking as somebody who has had to produce university papers on a manual typewriter and fix typos with white correction fluid, it is really not that hard to post to the Wiki. 35 F / 1.5C in my driveway this morning. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Wiki more useful than inline photos Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:13:48 -0500 I didn't say it was hard to do. Each person has their own personal opinion and preference, of course. On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 10:10 AM, Leo Martin wrote: > The Wiki aggregates all our information in one place, making it much easier > to find information. It would be much harder to find information and photos > wading through the back digests. > > Speaking as somebody who has had to produce university papers on a manual > typewriter and fix typos with white correction fluid, it is really not that > hard to post to the Wiki. > > 35 F / 1.5C in my driveway this morning. > > Leo Martin > Zone 9? > Phoenix Arizona USA > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1416237414.65898.YahooMailNeo@web186101.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:16:54 +0000 Can someone advise on treatment of Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana propagules. Do I "sow" now or spring or store, how, how deep etc. If I had not gone to a meeting last week on Gesneriads, some of which produce numerous propagules, I would not have recognised them for what they are. Found them falling on a pot of Anemones pavonina trying to flower. I guess these are aerial bulbs?   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1416238076.96881.YahooMailNeo@web126205.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:27:56 -0800 Jude, I think if you go back and look through the archives you'll see that in most instances where requests for identification are made, there is a link to the mystery bulb page where the plant is pictured. How much of a hassle can it be to click on a link? Or is the hassle in having to use the back button to return? Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1416238484.52210.YahooMailNeo@web126206.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 07:34:44 -0800 Brian asked "Can someone advise on treatment of Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana propagules. Do I "sow" now or spring or store, how, how deep etc." Here in the greater Washington, D.C. area, we would just scatter them where we wanted them. In this area the plant will slowly spread and eventually form broad masses. I have no idea what it needs in other climates. Jim McKenney Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 where I've heard Begonia grandis called "invasive". From group@shoalcreeksucculents.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <001e01d0027d$c85733b0$59059b10$@shoalcreeksucculents.com> From: "Shoal Creek Succulents" Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:47:24 -0600 Hi Leo- I have an array of Hyacinthaceae species, assuming they are correctly ID'd in the first place - that are not on the Wiki. Albuca, Ornithogalum are two genera that come to mind. I know there have been a lot of taxonomic changes; and I am able to determine the latest placement. I then check the Wiki, iSpot, Google images, Flickr general search, sometimes Photobucket. All but the Wiki are a shot in the dark, meaning the info isn't really reliable - but it's a start. Usually; the best I can do with the other sources is (based on consensus) determine that I have an improperly ID'd plant. Which is fine for now. I keep a database of what I have, make notes if an item is of questionable name, etc. I've been taking pictures of all details that I hope will help ID a plant. But, like Jude, I would like to see a faster way to ask a question using an attached picture. I reserve my Flickr account for my best pictures, and don't want NOIDS on it. I have no intention of learning how to submit items on the Wiki at this time. Later, I do hope to contribute; but I am still trying to learn what separates various species. I am thankful for the detail and effort put into the Wiki. However, sometimes, the array of pictures does not show an image of the foliage close-up, and other details that would assist in making a proper ID. Ideally, and when I start to create a pictorial catalog of my plants, I would have one of the bulb, foliage, flower, specific identifiers and the seed. I should also include some dimensions as I catalog. Best regards, Lisa Subject: Re: [pbs] Wiki contributions One reason additions to the Wiki have slowed is that so many bulbs are already there. There aren't too many more about which something is known or photographs are available. Leo Martin From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Mon, 17 Nov 2014 08:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <546A1AFD.7020302@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:57:49 +0000 Hi, On 17/11/2014 15:01, Leo Martin wrote: > One reason additions to the Wiki have slowed is that so many bulbs are > already there. There aren't too many more about which something is known or > photographs are available. I beg to differ. There is enormous scope for adding more information to the wiki (seeds, bulbs, leaves, dormancy, cultivation). Even if people are not prepared to go out and photograph things, we have a large backlog of photographs to add. I have a list of 1000's of spelling errors in the wiki... As to the "we can't do XXX because of people using damp string to connect to the 'net". It is good to consider these people, but it is bad to let them dictate what is done. For example the wiki has low resolution images which they can use, but that does not stop us also having high resolution images. People with string connections eventually get fibre, and at that point they demand high quality and abandon what they've used before. I help moderate the yahoo lily list, images are allowed in messages. Again there is the consideration for the damp string people, "keep attachments below 200K", but I've yet to hear anyone complain about the size of photos when people exceed that amount. -- David Pilling North West England From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Mon, 17 Nov 2014 09:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <2083308116.22316.1416241706630.JavaMail.www@wwinf1j05> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 17:28:26 +0100 (CET) Dear Brian, knowing well your climate I would be tempted to "sow" them in some good compost and overwinter in a cold greenhouse, or a frost free window sill, just in case of a bad winter. Here they eventually petered out through comptetion with other plants I think. It got too dry and poor for them no doubt. I have always struggled to keep it going as it needs richer moister soil than I can usually find for it. Kind regards, Mark > Message du 17/11/14 16:17 > De : "Brian Whyer" > A : "Pacific Bulb Society" > Copie à : > Objet : [pbs] Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana > > Can someone advise on treatment of Begonia grandis subsp. evansiana propagules. Do I "sow" now or spring or store, how, how deep etc. If I had not gone to a meeting last week on Gesneriads, some of which produce numerous propagules, I would not have recognised them for what they are. Found them falling on a pot of Anemones pavonina trying to flower. > I guess these are aerial bulbs? >   > Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From janemcgary@earthlink.net Mon, 17 Nov 2014 11:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Electronic publication Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 10:26:50 -0800 Jude wrote, >I thought that at least part of the reason we cannot share photos directly, >is because a few folks in the group have primitive internet connections? If >sharing a photo or two here and there is an issue, imagine what an >electronic publication would do. The electronic publication would be accessible online with a browser, not sent as an email. There is a huge difference in terms of download time between the two. If the e-journal is downloadable, it would be as a pdf, which can take a long time with a slow connection, but still better than getting a huge file as an email attachment if you have to get it through a telephone line. I know this because until three years ago I lived in a rural location where fast connections are not available unless you go for satellite, which is very expensive and also said to be slow to upload. "Primitive" describes a significant part of the US population at present, in terms of connectivity. Coverage is much greater in the more developed parts of Europe. It is not the fault of "a few folks in the group" that they don't have the prime service that Jude, and now I, enjoy. David Pilling addressed this in more severe terms in his latest post; remember that we have a lot more distance here in North America than in the UK to get cable across, and low population density in rural areas discourages companies from extending their services there. Jane McGary From enoster@hotmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:02:37 -0800 I agree with David and Lisa, and would like to also see seedling photos to help amateurs like me confirm what I'm growing, haha. There are lots of times when I would like to share a pretty picture from my garden, and that wouldn't really be appropriate for the wiki. I have an idea, how About a "Garden" page on the PBS where we can show off our prized bulbs mingling in the landscape? -Travis From robin@hansennursery.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 14:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1416260197.966520964@mail.coosnet.com> From: robin@hansennursery.com Subject: blog instead of printed journals? Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 13:36:37 -0800 (PST) Well, I guess I should have mentioned that sooner or later, I read the Bulb Garden cover to cover, just as I do the Scottish Rock Garden Club journal, the NARGS journal and several others. I'm a very plant-society deprived person in this out-of-the way corner of Oregon and journals are essential to keep up with the plant world!! Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery North Bend, Oregon Southwest Coast, in an earthquake we'll be lost and incommunicado for many months... From bob.hoel@comcast.net Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <55001FA3-44FD-4EB6-AE01-D1E525057811@comcast.net> From: Robert Hoel Subject: Alternatives to sand Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:34:07 -0600 I meant to chime in earlier on the discussion about what type of sand to use in a potting mix. A friend of mine put me on to another soil amendment that does well for my cactus and succulents. It is called SoilMaster, made by Pro’s Choice. I was having problems with the sand I was using in this mix as it was holding to much water, causing some of the plants to rot off. I have not seen this problem since changing over to the SoilMaster product and was wondering if anyone has used it in their bulb potting mixes to get good drainage? Any downside to this? Bob Hoel frigid Illinois where we won’t break 30 degrees all weeks. Better on a bike than in a box! From myixia1@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Pamela Slate Subject: Electronic publication Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:35:41 -0700 I receive an electronic journal from a different organization. I also enjoy picking up journals and reading them at my leisure. However, since not everything in a publication interests me, so what I like about the electronic format is that I can print articles of choice and still read them when I wish. That, I realize, doesn't account for the many folks who still have slow internet connections. Perhaps those people could prevail on friends or a local library with better connections to do as I do and print. The BG has been published only 3-4 times annually and is extremely small by professional journal standards, thereby making it reasonably printable. It's most often only 12 pages. Once former issues of The BG are archived and online, which I would expect at some point, I will probably do as I do now, print articles of interest to me and discard my hard copies. Pamela Slate On Mon, Nov 17, 2014 at 11:26 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > Jude wrote, > > I thought that at least part of the reason we cannot share photos >> directly, >> is because a few folks in the group have primitive internet connections? >> If >> sharing a photo or two here and there is an issue, imagine what an >> electronic publication would do. >> > > The electronic publication would be accessible online with a browser, not > sent as an email. There is a huge difference in terms of download time > between the two. If the e-journal is downloadable, it would be as a pdf, > which can take a long time with a slow connection, but still better than > getting a huge file as an email attachment if you have to get it through a > telephone line. > > I know this because until three years ago I lived in a rural location > where fast connections are not available unless you go for satellite, which > is very expensive and also said to be slow to upload. > > "Primitive" describes a significant part of the US population at present, > in terms of connectivity. Coverage is much greater in the more developed > parts of Europe. It is not the fault of "a few folks in the group" that > they don't have the prime service that Jude, and now I, enjoy. David > Pilling addressed this in more severe terms in his latest post; remember > that we have a lot more distance here in North America than in the UK to > get cable across, and low population density in rural areas discourages > companies from extending their services there. > > Jane McGary > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From penstemon@Q.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "penstemon" Subject: Alternatives to sand Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 16:47:09 -0700 >I meant to chime in earlier on the discussion about what type of sand to >use in a potting mix. A friend of mine put me on to another soil amendment >that does well for my cactus and succulents. It is called SoilMaster, made >by Pro’s Choice. I was having problems with the sand I was using in this >mix as it was holding to much water, causing some of the plants to rot off. >I have not seen this problem since changing over to the SoilMaster product >and was wondering if anyone has used it in their bulb potting mixes to get >good drainage? Any downside to this? Sounds like a type of calcined clay, like Turface, which I use with good results. The water-retaining properties of sand, though, are zero. I'm a compulsive grower of cactus from seed (as the 600 seedlings in the upstairs bedroom demonstrate), and have a small collection of asclepiads, all of which are grown in pure sand ("play sand"). There is no moisture at all in any of the pots right now. The humidity in the house is probably a sweaty 20 percent. Where I got into trouble, with the stupid iris, was that it was growing in a pot of sand, inside a propagator in the laundry room (extremely low-tech here), and when the sand was watered, the water just wicked back up through the pot. No way for it to evaporate. That's the reward of hubris, working hand-in-hand with sloth. Grit works really well for aeration (I don't use the d-word), but it should be tasted first. (Maybe not in the store.) I understand that in U.K. one can get fifty different kinds of horticultural grit, but here, poultry grit is the choice, and some of it contains salt. I discovered this the hard way. Bob Nold Denver, Colorado From putman@pobox.upenn.edu Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: <546AAE1D.5020908@pobox.upenn.edu> From: Stephen Putman Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:25:33 -0500 "Damp string", eh? Now I'd not heard of that. Smart notion there..., but then what about those members who live in dry places where damp string is not so readily available?????? shp On 11/17/2014 10:57 AM, David Pilling wrote: > Hi, > > On 17/11/2014 15:01, Leo Martin wrote: >> One reason additions to the Wiki have slowed is that so many bulbs are >> already there. There aren't too many more about which something is >> known or >> photographs are available. > > I beg to differ. There is enormous scope for adding more information to > the wiki (seeds, bulbs, leaves, dormancy, cultivation). > > Even if people are not prepared to go out and photograph things, we have > a large backlog of photographs to add. > > I have a list of 1000's of spelling errors in the wiki... > > > As to the "we can't do XXX because of people using damp string to > connect to the 'net". It is good to consider these people, but it is bad > to let them dictate what is done. > > For example the wiki has low resolution images which they can use, but > that does not stop us also having high resolution images. > > People with string connections eventually get fibre, and at that point > they demand high quality and abandon what they've used before. > > I help moderate the yahoo lily list, images are allowed in messages. > Again there is the consideration for the damp string people, "keep > attachments below 200K", but I've yet to hear anyone complain about the > size of photos when people exceed that amount. > > > From voltaire@islandnet.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: Don/Diane Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 19:35:34 -0800 On 2014-11-17, at 1:02 PM, T O wrote: > how About a "Garden" page on the PBS where we can show off our prized bulbs mingling in the landscape? > -Travis I'd like that. I think we'd need several, though, perhaps one per season, or one for each geographical area. Diane Whitehead Victoria, B.C., Canada From silkie@frontiernet.net Mon, 17 Nov 2014 21:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <032501d002e8$d7508130$85f18390$@frontiernet.net> From: "Colleen" Subject: Electronic publication Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 20:33:45 -0800 I think there still is a disconnect in understanding some people's access to an internet that is "wet string". In many areas it does no good to go to a neighbor's as they will have the same type of access, or none at all, and not every area has a library. "High Speed" internet is a term, I found out, that can be legally used for a range of speeds and a company is only legally required to deliver the lowest speed even though they take your money for a much higher promised speed, which I find too slow to take advantage of a lot of opportunities on the web. If the school, which is 1.5 miles up the road, turns on their computers it drains the speed from my computer. Wi-Fi can be very hard to find. Here in NE Calif. we don't even have universal cell phone coverage and I will be traveling about 3 hours tomorrow where there will be no cell coverage . We can't expect things to get much better for a long time because the population density is too low to justify the capital investment. I can't even get cable because the company said I was too many power poles away from their last drop. Oh, and one more thing, there are vast areas of this county that do not even have power so people live with generators and bottled water. In summary, it is not a lack of knowledge or motivation that keeps people on "wet string" (I like to term) hook ups. Colleen in rural NE Calif. 11F last night and supposed to be lower tonight Subject: Re: [pbs] Electronic publication That, I realize, doesn't account for the many folks who still have slow internet connections. Perhaps those people could prevail on friends or a local library with better connections to do as I do and print. The BG has been published only 3-4 times annually and is extremely small by professional journal standards, thereby making it reasonably printable. It's most often only 12 pages. Pamela Slate From hartsentwine.australia@gmail.com Mon, 17 Nov 2014 22:17:04 -0800 Message-Id: From: steven hart Subject: Wiki contributions Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 15:16:52 +1000 What a lovely idea... On 18 November 2014 13:35, Don/Diane wrote: > On 2014-11-17, at 1:02 PM, T O wrote: > > > how About a "Garden" page on the PBS where we can show off our prized > bulbs mingling in the landscape? > > -Travis > > I'd like that. I think we'd need several, though, perhaps one per season, > or one for each geographical area. > > > Diane Whitehead > Victoria, B.C., Canada > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Steven : ) Esk Queensland Australia Summer Zone 5 Winter Zone 10 From janemcgary@earthlink.net Tue, 18 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Fwd: PBS website contact:Juno Iris\' in Australia Date: Tue, 18 Nov 2014 10:59:46 -0800 We have received the following inquiry via the PBS website. Do any of our Australian members know where Dawn can obtain Juno (Scorpiris) irises there? Please reply to her at the address below, not to this list. Jane McGary >Subject: PBS website contact:Juno Iris\' in Australia >Reply-To: Dawn Whykes >From: Apache > >Hello, >I am hoping you\'ll be able to help me locate a grower in Australia. >I\'d like to grow Juno Iris\', but can\'t find a grower. Can you >help me sorce someone who sells the Iris please. >Regards >Dawn Whykes From flist@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 19 Nov 2014 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <546CACE1.6020200@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Recent additions to the PBS wiki Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:44:49 +0000 Hi, Here are some recent additions to the PBS wiki Lilium iridollae a lily from North America that likes wet conditions http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanLilium#iridollae Lilium bolanderi habitat photos http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NorthAmericanLilium#bolanderi Lilium yapingense only discovered in 2013 http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/LiliumAsiaticSectionThree#yapingense Naude's Nek photo table http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/NaudesNek -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From erik@tepuidesign.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Erik Van Lennep Subject: BG 2014? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:26:17 +0100 Following this thread has me wondering: Did the BG get published at all this year? I joined last December, and have never received anything other than this email listserv! Erik van Lennep Barcelona, Spain > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:35:41 -0700 > From: Pamela Slate > "...The BG has been published only 3-4 times annually and is extremely > small by > professional journal standards, thereby making it reasonably printable. > It's most often only 12 pages...." > > From arnold140@verizon.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <213CED42-F203-4A92-A76E-968AD539DF8D@verizon.net> From: Arnold Subject: BG 2014? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 13:54:28 -0500 Erik: You should have received a welcome packet from me with a couple of recent issues of the BG a bookmark and a discount coupon. If you didn't email me privately and include a mailing address Arnold. Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 19, 2014, at 1:26 PM, Erik Van Lennep wrote: > > Following this thread has me wondering: Did the BG get published at all > this year? > > I joined last December, and have never received anything other than this > email listserv! > > Erik van Lennep > Barcelona, Spain > >> >> ------------------------------ >> >> Message: 5 >> Date: Mon, 17 Nov 2014 15:35:41 -0700 >> From: Pamela Slate >> "...The BG has been published only 3-4 times annually and is extremely >> small by >> professional journal standards, thereby making it reasonably printable. >> It's most often only 12 pages...." > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 12:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: Romneya Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 11:24:28 -0800 Romneya coulteri is a member of the chaparral regions of southern California. With all due respct, I must correct the statement "It's obviously a bulb". No, it is so far removed from a bulbous root system that I must contain my inward chuckle. It produces stolons that travel for distances of up to a hundred meters. A wonderful plant and it does do well far outside its natural habitat. I have grown it very successfully in England where the damper summers gave it a very long flowering period and where its stolons did not behave as they do in this much drier region. It is normally propagated from pups taken in autumn (fall), placed in pots in colder areas and planted out in springtime. Propagation from seed is rather more difficult, an unusual behavior for members of the poppy family. Andrew San Diego From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Wed, 19 Nov 2014 14:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <546D0BA9.1070500@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: BG 2014? Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 21:29:13 +0000 Hi, On 19/11/2014 18:26, Erik Van Lennep wrote: > Following this thread has me wondering: Did the BG get published at all > this year? You can see the publication dates and contents here: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/news.html -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1324142382.1821311.1416436968995.JavaMail.yahoo@jws10070.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 22:42:48 +0000 (UTC) I've got something interesting for you here. I've just posted two very short, very low tech videos to my blog, videos which I made during one of the most exciting plant experiences I've ever had. That day was right up there with the day I first saw a pitcher plant bog or the day my Davidia bloomed for the first time (after a seventeen year wait). Tastes vary, of course, and these videos might might strike some of you as utterly yawn worthy.Here's what it's about: in the September 2014 Quarterly Bulletin of the North American Lily Society I published a short story about a really amazing experience I had this year. In 2008, a friend contacted me for help in identifying a plant. One of his coworkers who lived on a small farm found the plant in the woods on his farm. From what I was hearing, the ID seemed obvious but unlikely: Cardiocrinum cordatum. At this point in the story I was assuming that the plant was a garden plant. When I later learned that the plant - and lots of them -  grew in the woods on the farm, my interest soared.  I begged and pleaded for a chance to see the plant in situ. I continued to nudge my friend yearly, but not until this year did things work out. In August I went out to the farm and was driven in a very slow moving farm vehicle to the far end of the property. As we got close to the spot, I began to make out the flowers in the woodland: I could hardly believe my eyes. It was not a single garden escapee, it was a coarse  woodland of noxious, ruderal weeds (Japanese barberry, wine berry, multiflora rose and stilt grass) with hundreds of the Cardiocrinum scattered among them. In the videos you'll get an idea of just how well they have made themselves at home there.  In the middle of one of the videos a red-tailed hawk provides some sound excitement, so be sure the sound is turned on. You don't see the hawk in the video, but the hawk and a small heron were tangling in mid air right above our eyes. So far I have not had much experience adding videos to my blog - it took a lot of time working from an on-line tutorial to get this done. I hope you all are able to view it without a problem.   Take a look here:http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From vc2m@mac.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <65DAEE0C-728E-4E4D-A785-417B146BF8FC@mac.com> From: VIJAY CHANDHOK Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:14:20 -0500 Jim, This does not open? Vijay On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > :http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:16:03 +0100 I saw them both The link work for me Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-20 0:14 GMT+01:00 VIJAY CHANDHOK : > Jim, > This does not open? > Vijay > On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > > > : > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <826013958.1964343.1416438978272.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100104.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:16:18 +0000 (UTC) Vijay, it has for other people. From: VIJAY CHANDHOK To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:14 PM Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Jim, This does not open? Vijay On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > :http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html From lthames@cableone.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: linda thames Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 17:20:01 -0600 Vijay, try right clicking and see if it will open in another window/tab. Linda On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Bulborum Botanicum wrote: > I saw them both > The link work for me > > Roland > > R de Boer > 2238 Route de la Maugardiere > F 27260 EPAIGNES > FRANCE > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ > > Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > > 2014-11-20 0:14 GMT+01:00 VIJAY CHANDHOK : > > > Jim, > > This does not open? > > Vijay > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > > > > > : > > > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <1416439273.27686.YahooMailNeo@web186101.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:21:13 +0000 I had to click on the link above where I expected the video. Not used this before. Why so few flowers. All my Cardiocrinums have been as tall or taller than me with multiple flower heads. Brian Whyer, England From: Bulborum Botanicum >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Wednesday, 19 November 2014, 23:16 >Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland > > >I saw them both >The link work for me > >Roland > >R de Boer >2238 Route de la Maugardiere >F 27260 EPAIGNES >FRANCE > >Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 >Email:  bulborum@gmail.com >Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ > >Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > >2014-11-20 0:14 GMT+01:00 VIJAY CHANDHOK : > >> Jim, >> This does not open? >> Vijay >> On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: >> >> > : >> http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki >> >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > From bulborum@gmail.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:21:54 +0100 Or an other browser For example Firefox This one worked for me Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-20 0:20 GMT+01:00 linda thames : > Vijay, try right clicking and see if it will open in another window/tab. > Linda > > On Wed, Nov 19, 2014 at 5:16 PM, Bulborum Botanicum > wrote: > > > I saw them both > > The link work for me > > > > Roland > > > > R de Boer > > 2238 Route de la Maugardiere > > F 27260 EPAIGNES > > FRANCE > > > > Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 > > Email: bulborum@gmail.com > > Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ > > > > Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 > > > > 2014-11-20 0:14 GMT+01:00 VIJAY CHANDHOK : > > > > > Jim, > > > This does not open? > > > Vijay > > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > > > > > > > : > > > > > > http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From vc2m@mac.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <7E076FF1-A19B-4AAC-9926-DA1F0D920D99@mac.com> From: VIJAY CHANDHOK Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:30:31 -0500 Jim, I got it to open on Safari. Vijay On Nov 19, 2014, at 6:16 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > Vijay, it has for other people. > From: VIJAY CHANDHOK > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Sent: Wednesday, November 19, 2014 6:14 PM > Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland > > Jim, > This does not open? > Vijay > > > On Nov 19, 2014, at 5:42 PM, Jim McKenney wrote: > >> :http://mcwort.blogspot.com/2014/11/cardiocrinum-cordatum-naturalized-in.html > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 16:17:09 -0800 Message-Id: <678488849.1835720.1416439961901.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100191.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 23:32:41 +0000 (UTC) Brian, these are Cardiocrinum cordatum cordatum, the typical short form from southern Japan, not C. giganteum or C. cordatum glehnii. Jim McKenney From jwaddick@kc.rr.com Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <189C9F46-9BBA-488E-BE8A-F193B7DFCD79@kc.rr.com> From: James Waddick Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 19:11:16 -0600 Dear Jim Mc, Jim McKenney wrote: > I've got something interesting for you here. …. hundreds of the Cardiocrinum This is really quite amazing. Watch out or it will get on the Invasive Weed list for Maryland. What a stunning site. Hope you can visit some time when seeds are available to share with PBS Seed Ex. Thanks. Jim James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 From hornig@oswego.edu Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Ellen Hornig Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Wed, 19 Nov 2014 20:33:30 -0500 My thought exactly, Jim Waddick: we need seeds of those demonstrably adaptable cardiocrinums! If they get out of hand, I don't think they're that hard to dig up. I like the idea of filling my woodland with those, glaucidiums, anemonopsis, and other weeds. Ellen > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > -- Ellen Hornig 212 Grafton St Shrewsbury MA 01545 From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Wed, 19 Nov 2014 18:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <68437645.1850290.1416447803956.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100174.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 01:43:23 +0000 (UTC) Jim Waddick wrote: " Hope you can visit some time when seeds are available to share with PBS Seed Ex." Done! The seeds are here on the desk beside me. I intend to offer seeds to the PBS exchange and several other exchanges.  To the list in general: if you are responsible for accepting seeds for your organization's seed exchange, please contact me privately if you think your members would be interested in these. Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 20 Nov 2014 00:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <2066511575.1841.1416469729354.JavaMail.www@wwinf2223> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 08:48:49 +0100 (CET) Extremely frustrating with my in reality damp string but supposedly "high speed" connection I can't see this! Seeing videos is getting harder and harder here with more and more folks getting on the internet bandwagon. The simplicity of the forum here has much to recommend for people like me. And yes I too would love to see Glaucidium as a weed here. Especially the white form. It always dies out here after one winter. Mark. 76119 Sainte Margeutite-sur-mer, France   _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From myixia1@gmail.com Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Pamela Slate Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:20:22 -0700 For those having trouble opening Jim's video, I initially also had trouble. However, embedded in the black screen is a gray link to Dropbox. I moved the cursor over it and it became white and when I clicked that link, the video opened. Just above that is another link to drive.google that may also be hard to see but moving the cursor over it, it too becomes white and clicking on that link also opened the video. Hope this is helpful for at least some of you so that you can see this amazing sight. Thanks for your diligence, Jim, and for sharing!! Pamela On Thu, Nov 20, 2014 at 12:48 AM, Mark BROWN wrote: > Extremely frustrating with my in reality damp string but supposedly "high > speed" connection I can't see this! > Seeing videos is getting harder and harder here with more and more folks > getting on the internet bandwagon. > The simplicity of the forum here has much to recommend for people like me. > And yes I too would love to see Glaucidium as a weed here. Especially the > white form. It always dies out here after one winter. > Mark. > 76119 Sainte Margeutite-sur-mer, > France > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From wpoulsen@pacbell.net Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <98367029-7CFA-4B35-9F61-6B95B3540B09@pacbell.net> From: Lee Poulsen Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:29:57 -0800 Whenever I'm in a location where the connection is slow or uncertain, it has always been easier for me to left-click and download a video as a file first, then play the file directly from my computer's hard drive rather than trying to stream it in real-time over the Internet. My wife does this as a matter of course now whenever she wants to play a video from the Internet to her high school science classes instead of trying to depend on the school's network. Jim McK., you said that this variety of Cardiocrinum cordatum comes from southern Japan. Do you know which island? Kyushu and the southern end of Honshu are quite hot and humid in the summer and it never gets that cold in the winter (mandarin oranges grow quite well there). In many ways, it resembles the climate of the American South. Do you think this variety you've found might be able to grow down there as well? And more importantly to me, I wonder if it will grow here in California? Every other attempt I've made has failed miserably. --Lee Poulsen Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m On Nov 19, 2014, at 11:48 PM, Mark BROWN wrote: > Extremely frustrating with my in reality damp string but supposedly "high speed" connection I can't see this! > Seeing videos is getting harder and harder here with more and more folks getting on the internet bandwagon. > The simplicity of the forum here has much to recommend for people like me. From janemcgary@earthlink.net Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 09:36:17 -0800 WHen I visited Japan last spring, I was amazed to see how Cardiocrinum grows in the woodland in the north of the island of Honshu. There were plants (not yet raising flowering stems) of every size, that is, age, all over the flatter parts of the moist streamside deciduous forest. It was a major part of the herbaceous understory and mostly growing as individual plants, suggesting that seed rather than offsets was its primary means of propagation. Here in western North America many of us struggle to grow Cardiocrinum well, because it is hard to provide enough summer moisture and humidity for it. It is also attacked badly by slugs. However, a grower just south of Portland used to produce thousands of bulbs which he started in raised beds in hoop houses (poly tunnels) and then brought on in irrigated fields in full sun. I've seen the plants that resulted flowering in 2-gallon pots at garden centers, priced at $50! In those pots they probably were not making offsets, and the buyers would find themselves with nothing when the monocarpic bulb died off. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From jamesamckenney@verizon.net Thu, 20 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <99393506.2065053.1416507267931.JavaMail.yahoo@jws100160.mail.ne1.yahoo.com> From: Jim McKenney Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:14:27 +0000 (UTC) Lee, I don't know where it grows in modern Japan, but evidently the species in one form or another  grows from Kyushu to Hokkaido.  This plant has been known to westerners since the seventeenth  century when it was brought (c. 1690) to the German physician Kaempfer who was more or less confined to a little island off Nagasaki. So yes, it takes heat and humidity. And heat and humidity describe the typical Maryland summer.The big forms of the species grow to the north in Hokkaido, and should be hardy well to the north. If you do Google images for Cardiocrinum cordatum you can see tall ones growing in a garden in Finland. So winter cold, pure and simple, should not be a problem. I don't know how, or if, the small southern form of C. cordatum differs from C. cathayanum. I don't know anything about gardening in Califormia; my only successes with Califormian plants come when I treat them as desert plants according to my east-coast sensibilities of what "desert" means. So to have success with them in southern Califormia you'll probably have to jump through some hoops. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brown.mark@wanadoo.fr Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <2109034033.23016.1416514646168.JavaMail.www@wwinf1n09> From: Mark BROWN Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 21:17:26 +0100 (CET) Amazing! You must have had week knees!! The drop box version worked fine at last. What is the drift of ferns we see at the end of the vidéo? Mark     _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From brian.whyer@btinternet.com Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1416517117.46855.YahooMailNeo@web186103.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: Brian Whyer Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 20:58:37 +0000 Having great difficulty in find any information on this var. The 3 Japanese Google matches I tried don't translate as anything useful.   Brian Whyer, Buckinghamshire, England, zone ~8 ish From: Mark BROWN >To: Pacific Bulb Society >Sent: Thursday, 20 November 2014, 20:17 >Subject: Re: [pbs] Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland > > >Amazing! You must have had week knees!! >The drop box version worked fine at last. >What is the drift of ferns we see at the end of the vidéo? >Mark From plantsman@comcast.net Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <20141120214416.0D98A21867@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Nathan Lange Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 13:36:23 -0800 From the PBS Wiki: "Generations of writers have repeated the incorrect notion that these plants are monocarpic. They are not monocarpic. Yes, the flowering stems die after seed set; in fact, they die whether seed is set or not. But so do the fruiting stems of tulips, lilies, fritillaries and a host of other similar plants. The perennial stem (i.e. the basal plate) and its offset bulbs live on from year to year." This is consistent with my observations of cultivated plants and the performance of a plant I purchased from the UC Berkeley Botanical Garden in 2009 which consistently flowers every other year while growing in a 2 gallon pot. Nathan From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <546E796D.3030001@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 23:29:49 +0000 Hi, Jim McKenney has kindly allowed me to add these videos to the PBS You Tube channel: https://www.youtube.com/user/PacificBulbSociety This may be easier for some of you to view. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From k.preteroti@verizon.net Thu, 20 Nov 2014 17:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <5641F46E-C014-46DE-BE22-9ED2CFB491B4@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:47:50 -0500 Wow! Never knew PBS had a You Tube channel. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b > On Nov 20, 2014, at 6:29 PM, David Pilling wrote: > > Hi, > > Jim McKenney has kindly allowed me to add these videos to the PBS You Tube channel: > > https://www.youtube.com/user/PacificBulbSociety > > This may be easier for some of you to view. > > > -- > David Pilling > www.davidpilling.com > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From david@pilling.demon.co.uk Thu, 20 Nov 2014 18:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <546E9A45.4040606@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Cardiocrinum cordatum in a Maryland woodland Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 01:49:57 +0000 Hi, As a result of this discussion, Laurence Hill has sent a couple of photos of Cardiocrinum cordatum growing in Japan. You can see them on the PBS wiki page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Cardiocrinum The discussion of seed reminded me that the germination of Cardiocrinum is interesting. Click on the expanding box on the above page, where it says "Click for pictures of seeds and germination information..." to read all about it. -- David Pilling www.davidpilling.com From ds429@frontier.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <727695.45315.bm@smtp234.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> From: Subject: Fw: PBS website contact:Allium paradoxum var normale Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:28:56 +0000 Greetings! I am desperately trying to locate Allium paradoxum var normale bulbs for sell. Have spent countless hours trying to find some for sale and though there are numerous suppliers in Europe they do not ship to the USA. I really hope that you or your members can help me. Please. Many thanks, Nancy Talmage nancy.talmage@gmail.com Byron, GA -- Pacific Bulb Society web site email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org From janemcgary@earthlink.net Fri, 21 Nov 2014 09:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jane McGary Subject: Erythronium morphology Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 08:59:32 -0800 I have been asked to write a brief review of Chris Clennett, "The Genus Erythronium," a recently published Kew monograph. I was puzzled to encounter the phrase "sac-like appendages" applied to the structures seen on some western American species. In other literature I have seen these called "auricles." Does Clennet's avoidance of the word "auricle" mean that it has been misused by previous authors in reference to Erythronium? I hope one or more of our academic botanists can clarify this for me. Thanks, Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <546F75D3.2050804@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Amaryllis belladonna seed seeks bulbophile Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:26:43 +0000 Hi, I have 2 or maybe 3 packets of Amaryllis belladonna seed to give away [1]. Only apply [2] if you can plant these seed immediately on receipt [3], and if your country does not require import permission for seeds from the United Kingdom [4]. You can see the story of my plants at the bottom of this page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Amaryllis [1] completely free of charge including air mail [2] send me a private email [3] seed being ephemeral (recalcitrant) and unsuitable for drying [4] i.e. you don't live in the USA. -- David Pilling North West England From rdevries@comcast.net Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Rimmer deVries Subject: "Pot bound" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:29:19 -0500 Often you see the terms “likes to be pot bound” or "keep pot bound” with advice for growing bulbs in pots. is the thought behind these terms have anything to do with the plants preferring cramped spaces or more to do with the soil mass relative to the root system and how fast the roots take up excess moisture in the pot. if using a fast draining potting media like 80% pumice, do these plants still need to be pot bound? Rimmer _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From rdevries@comcast.net Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Rimmer deVries Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:15:57 -0500 some photos of the progress of the replacement Scilla madeirensis bulbs.S bulbs were started outside and brought inside when the temps got cold. kept at about 55-65 in basement under T-5 lights, on 12 hrs. they shot up in early November after a watering. https://www.flickr.com/photos/32952654@N06/sets/72157647966881742/ Rimmer Zone 5 SE Michigan From robin@hansennursery.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <1416594407.935321474@mail.coosnet.com> From: robin@hansennursery.com Subject: Erythronium morphology Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 10:26:47 -0800 (PST) Ed Alverson spoke to our group on Erythroniums last night and he used the phrase "sac-like appendages" if that is any help. Ed, of course, is a very long-time erythronium fan. In fact, he had a copy of Chris Clennet's book and while I didn't have a chance to review the writing, the drawings and photos were stunning. Robin Hansen Hansen Nursery Southwest Oregon From jshields46074@gmail.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: James SHIELDS Subject: "Pot bound" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 14:00:02 -0500 Rimmer and all, Most bulbs do not need to be "pot-bound" at all -- they need lots of root mass! On the other hand, amateurs who consistently over-water plants from arid lands have a harder time killing such plants if there is little or no soil in the pot with the roots to retain excess moisture. Growing large bulbs in small pots tends to result in "bonsai" bulbs, depriving the grower of a true appreciation of the plant real beauties. Jim S. On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Rimmer deVries wrote: > Often you see the terms “likes to be pot bound” or "keep pot bound” with > advice for growing bulbs in pots. > > is the thought behind these terms have anything to do with the plants > preferring cramped spaces > or more to do with the soil mass relative to the root system and how fast > the roots take up excess moisture in the pot. > > if using a fast draining potting media like 80% pumice, do these plants > still need to be pot bound? > > Rimmer > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki -- James Shields jshields46074@gmail.com P.O. Box 92 Westfield, IN 46074 U.S.A. _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From enoster@hotmail.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: "Pot bound" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 11:47:33 -0800 I wonder if pot bound bulbs divide less frequently because of the physical limitations, thus put more energy to flowering. Maybe the plant thinks it's going to die in such cramped quarters, so sets seed to continue it's genes? -Travis Owen From stnalpsoel@gmail.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Leo Martin Subject: Let's have a new page on the Wiki! Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:55:30 -0700 It isn't hard for anybody to add a new page to the Wiki. It is not much harder than typing an end-of-year letter to relatives. There are full directions. Write to a moderator for access and it will proably be granted. Go ahead and add a My Garden page. Leo Martin Zone 9? Phoenix Arizona USA From petersirises@gmail.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Peter Taggart Subject: "Pot bound" Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 20:10:55 +0000 .I believe that this depends on the type of bulb in question. Juno Iris, (and to some extent oncos) definitely do better with constricted roots, but they hate to run out of food. Others such as some of the drier growing Muscari, Narcissus species and some Colchicums do much better if crowded and fed. In my opinion the reasons are varied, Crowding and not re potting Nerine bulbs can cause the bulbs to heave up to the surface where they may be subject to temperature fluctuations and therefor be more stimulated to flower... or the lack of root disturbance may be the cause of better flowering.... Air can run down the sides of pots to reach crowded roots which would compliment Jim's argument that small pots may prevent over watering which is undoubtedly true . I have tried over potting and under potting of many types of bulb, as well various watering routines and composts. Apart from Juno Iris I have very few bulbs which I keep very constricted, -probably only about thirty pots out of the couple of thousand varieties which I grow. Also I always give the Junos some room to expand, and send their roots deep. For me, over potting has always been more successful when a plant is able to grow quickly. If temperatures are inadequate or the plant is slow growing I find it is generally best to be under potted. Peter (UK) On 21 November 2014 19:00, James SHIELDS wrote: > Rimmer and all, > > Most bulbs do not need to be "pot-bound" at all -- they need lots of root > mass! On the other hand, amateurs who consistently over-water plants from > arid lands have a harder time killing such plants if there is little or no > soil in the pot with the roots to retain excess moisture. > > Growing large bulbs in small pots tends to result in "bonsai" bulbs, > depriving the grower of a true appreciation of the plant real beauties. > > Jim S. > > On Fri, Nov 21, 2014 at 12:29 PM, Rimmer deVries > wrote: > > > Often you see the terms “likes to be pot bound” or "keep pot bound” with > > advice for growing bulbs in pots. > > > > is the thought behind these terms have anything to do with the plants > > preferring cramped spaces > > or more to do with the soil mass relative to the root system and how fast > > the roots take up excess moisture in the pot. > > > > if using a fast draining potting media like 80% pumice, do these plants > > still need to be pot bound? > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From msittner@mcn.org Fri, 21 Nov 2014 13:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <20141121202221.31B7520FA6@lists.ibiblio.org> From: Mary Sue Ittner Subject: Let's have a new page on the Wiki! Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 12:23:39 -0800 We have always encouraged Contributors pages for people who add to the wiki. It is possible to add whatever you want on your page to describe yourself or your garden. Gastil's page is a good example of how someone could add photos of their garden to the wiki and then give the link to members of this list so those people who want to look at the photos can. http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/MGastil-Buhl >It isn't hard for anybody to add a new page to the Wiki. Write to a >moderator for access and it will proably be granted. >Go ahead and add a My Garden page. From bulborum@gmail.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Bulborum Botanicum Subject: Fw: PBS website contact:Allium paradoxum var normale Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 23:39:00 +0100 Hi Nancy Try http://www.labulberaie.fr/ Probably Nathalie is willing to send to you She speaks English Roland R de Boer 2238 Route de la Maugardiere F 27260 EPAIGNES FRANCE Phone./Fax 0033-232-576-204 Email: bulborum@gmail.com Facebook Groups:https://www.facebook.com/groups/bulborum/ Facebook Page: https://www.facebook.com/pages/Bulborum/452518118130496 2014-11-21 13:28 GMT+01:00 : > > > Greetings! > > I am desperately trying to locate Allium paradoxum var normale bulbs for > sell. Have spent countless hours trying to find some for sale and though > there are numerous suppliers in Europe they do not ship to the USA. I > really hope that you or your members can help me. Please. > > Many thanks, > > Nancy Talmage nancy.talmage@gmail.com > Byron, GA > > -- > Pacific Bulb Society web site > email: website@pacificbulbsociety.org > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From voltaire@islandnet.com Fri, 21 Nov 2014 17:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Don/Diane Subject: Erythronium morphology Date: Fri, 21 Nov 2014 16:35:59 -0800 "Saccate appendage " is used in Molly Grothaus' article in Bulbs of North America. " Inflated saclike appendages" in Hitchcock and Cronquist: Flora of the Pacific Northwest. On 2014-11-21, at 8:59 AM, Jane McGary wrote: > I have been asked to write a brief review of Chris Clennett, "The Genus Erythronium," a recently published Kew monograph. I was puzzled to encounter the phrase "sac-like appendages" applied to the structures seen on some western American species. In other literature I have seen these called "auricles." Does Clennet's avoidance of the word "auricle" mean that it has been misused by previous authors in reference to Erythronium? From perennialfavorites@ghvalley.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 05:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: From: Perennial Favorites Subject: please remove me from the list Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 05:28:26 -0700 Thank you. From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kenneth Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:36:35 -0500 Update on Scilla madeirensis. My first bulb's leaves are about 6" above the bulb. A flower spike has formed and about two inches above the leaves. Very happy. Did not expect flowers this year. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:38:26 -0500 Why didn't you expect flowers ? On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 4:36 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Update on Scilla madeirensis. My first bulb's leaves are about 6" above > the bulb. A flower spike has formed and about two inches above the leaves. > Very happy. Did not expect flowers this year. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <94A5DD2E-A6C6-4381-BDB8-400AD2D68446@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:47:03 -0500 Good question Jude. My answer is I do not remember the order saying flowering size. Also my experience in mail order is mostly orchids. Flowering size does not ensure flowering. I usually get flowering the following season. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b > On Nov 22, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Jude Haverington wrote: > > Why didn't you expect flowers ? >> From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:49:23 -0500 Cool - thanks! In my personal experience - it can go either way. I haven't even looked to see when their natural blooming time is - Mine have been planted all along, but are just starting to grow. My giant Urginea maritima, on the other hand, is in full wake up mode now. On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Good question Jude. My answer is I do not remember the order saying > flowering size. Also my experience in mail order is mostly orchids. > Flowering size does not ensure flowering. I usually get flowering the > following season. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > > > On Nov 22, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Jude Haverington > wrote: > > > > Why didn't you expect flowers ? > >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From arnold140@verizon.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 14:17:10 -0800 Message-Id: <19989333.218491.1416694211122.JavaMail.root@vms170027.mailsrvcs.net> From: arnold140@verizon.net Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:10:11 -0600 (CST) I recall the material stated flowering size. Arnold New jersey From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1EBAFCD1-6BC2-47DC-8049-B18605CDAAFA@verizon.net> From: Kenneth Subject: Worsleya procera Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 17:30:23 -0500 I received an order of Worsleya seeds on November 8, 2014 from Australia. Planted them in a mix of 50% pumice and 50% Turface. 13 of the 14 have germinated as of today. I removed the 14th seed as it was moldy. > Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Worsleya procera Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 17:32:37 -0500 Super! How did you plant them - on the top? buried? flat or upright? On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Kenneth wrote: > I received an order of Worsleya seeds on November 8, 2014 from Australia. > Planted them in a mix of 50% pumice and 50% Turface. 13 of the 14 have > germinated as of today. I removed the 14th seed as it was moldy. > > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From k.preteroti@verizon.net Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kenneth Subject: Worsleya procera Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:23:32 -0500 Jude I half buried them upright. Since I was not sure which half to bury I buried 7 of them flat side down in the mix and the other 7 round side down in the mix. It did not matter the roots were smarter than me and the roots went into the mix. During the day I left the pots outside in the sun. Now that the temps dropped they are inside under a fluorescent light 18 hours a day. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6b > On Nov 22, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Jude Haverington wrote: > > Super! How did you plant them - on the top? buried? flat or upright? > >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Kenneth wrote: >> >> I received an order of Worsleya seeds on November 8, 2014 from Australia. >> Planted them in a mix of 50% pumice and 50% Turface. 13 of the 14 have >> germinated as of today. I removed the 14th seed as it was moldy. >> Ken P >> Old Bridge, NJ >> Zone 6b >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From tylus.seklos@gmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 16:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: Jude Haverington Subject: Worsleya procera Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:24:52 -0500 Thank you! I look forward to trying them some day. Best, Jude On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 6:23 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Jude I half buried them upright. Since I was not sure which half to bury I > buried 7 of them flat side down in the mix and the other 7 round side down > in the mix. It did not matter the roots were smarter than me and the roots > went into the mix. During the day I left the pots outside in the sun. Now > that the temps dropped they are inside under a fluorescent light 18 hours a > day. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > > > On Nov 22, 2014, at 5:32 PM, Jude Haverington > wrote: > > > > Super! How did you plant them - on the top? buried? flat or upright? > > > >> On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 5:30 PM, Kenneth > wrote: > >> > >> I received an order of Worsleya seeds on November 8, 2014 from > Australia. > >> Planted them in a mix of 50% pumice and 50% Turface. 13 of the 14 have > >> germinated as of today. I removed the 14th seed as it was moldy. > >> Ken P > >> Old Bridge, NJ > >> Zone 6b > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From othonna@gmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Hannon Subject: "Pot bound" Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 18:10:17 -0800 Aside from conserving space, keeping plants in cramped quarters is a hedge against overwatering. If you overpot and are very frugal in watering it may not be a problem but most of us have a tendency to overwater. Smaller bulbs that grow in rocky terrain or crevices naturally are suited to pot bound conditions. Ideally, bulbs should not be given a larger container than they actually need-- most plants grow better when their roots can reach the sides of the pot (see below). Frequent repotting-- preferably when the plant is active-- is better than one sudden move to a pot that is a lot larger than the bulb. Usually underpotting is a tolerable constraint; overpotting is much more likely to be lethal. I've noticed that in pots there is a "sweet spot" where a plant is most ideally suited to its situation. This is not right after transplanting, when growth may be slow, nor years later when the roots are really congested. Rather it is when the roots have filled out the pot and can obtain an air:water ratio that they enjoy, with the roots mostly at the sides and bottom of the container. Roots tend to migrate to these areas of the pot to seek air, water movement and warmth. This seems to be universal behavior in containerized plants. Near the center of the container volume these factors are not as ideal, and the larger the pot, the larger will be this central zone with colder, wetter and less aerated conditions. On the other hand, cold climate species may benefit from just such a refuge from heat and drying. There is another "sweet spot" in between watering and drying. When first watered the soil has a high water: air ratio and the plant is not very active. Only after the soil has dried somewhat, allowing air to replace some of the water in the spaces between soil particles, are conditions ideal for growth below the soil (temperature, root hair absorption, etc.) and above ground. This is often visible over one or two days in plants under ideal conditions. Dylan Hannon *"The greatest service which can be rendered any country is to add an useful plant to its culture..." --**Thomas Jefferson* From enoster@hotmail.com Sat, 22 Nov 2014 21:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Goodyera added to the wiki Date: Sat, 22 Nov 2014 20:31:14 -0800 Hello all, With David Pilling's help (OK, he did all the work), I have added the genus Goodyera to the wiki with one species I encountered while on our anniversary vacation to Bandon, OR last August. There were several flowering plants and 50 or so rosettes hidden among the pine duff. The property was for sale, and mostly inhabited by invasive Gorse, grasses and annual weeds. I would only hope the future owners don't level the place to make a "proper garden" as many of the gardens in Bandon are highly landscaped with Phormium's, Armeria, dwarf conifers and many non-natives. Here's the link: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/Goodyera -Travis Owen P.s. I made a contributor page for myself with links to my garden photos: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/TravisOwen Making my contributor page was very easy after reading this page: http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/index.php/AddingPages From rdevries@comcast.net Mon, 24 Nov 2014 01:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <9B2ED4C0-B0A2-4E9C-B838-C30A383F109E@comcast.net> From: Rimmer deVries Subject: Winter care for Clinanthus (Stenomesson) Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 11:24:17 -0500 I am seeking advice on the best practice winter care for Clinanthus incarnatum (Stenomesson variegatum) and Clinanthus variegatus (Stenomesson incarnatum) in pots. I wish they picked different names to reconfigure the classification, switching both first and last names is such a mess. Clinanthus incarnatum (Stenomesson variegatum) These are the Stenomesson with the strap like leaves. these come in red, yellow and apricot i have these in fairly deep pots of a 50% inorganic: 50% coarse pine park organic fast draining mix. I have read these can handle more water year round that the Clinanthus variegatus (Stenomesson incarnatum) Clinanthus variegatus (Stenomesson incarnatum) this is a larger plant and comes in a orange color and is supposed to be a dryer growing plant. the leaves are drier and fiberous remind me of corn stalks. I have these in deep pots of about 90% pumice and some sand and about 5-10% organic leaf mold. I have barely watered Clinanthus variegatus (incarnatum) all year and it continues to send up new leaves. I was wondering what I should do in the winter to make these potted plants happy sitting on my basement floor at 55-60F in dry conditions, i have a humidifier nearby to raise the nearby relative humidity up to 40-50% A small offset of Clinanthus incarnatum in a flat of Nerines has been watered regularly and it seems to like it. The larger Clinanthus incarnatums being starved of water have been losing bottom leaves. I suspect this may be good to encourage flowering in the spring, but i am afraid of desiccating the bulb too much? Should i withhold water until March or just a light surface sprinkle or mist every month or so? should the Clinanthus variegatus receive any water all winter? these have not been watered since repotting in the summer and don’t appear to mind being dry. The true Stenomesson piercei was dormant most of the summer and now has lots of leaves. is this a cool season plant? should i continue to water once a month or let it go dry? Thank you Rimmer se Michigan Zone 5 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From hpovey@talk21.com Mon, 24 Nov 2014 01:17:08 -0800 Message-Id: <1416774418.94452.YahooMailNeo@web186106.mail.ir2.yahoo.com> From: hpovey@talk21.com Subject: Scilla madeirensis Date: Sun, 23 Nov 2014 20:26:58 +0000 The bulbs are flowering size,but as with many bulbs it is possible occasionally for the flower bud to abort internally due to the stress of being lifted and dried for shipping. Hugh ________________________________ From: Jude Haverington To: Pacific Bulb Society Sent: Saturday, 22 November 2014, 21:49 Subject: Re: [pbs] Scilla madeirensis Cool - thanks! In my personal experience - it can go either way. I haven't even looked to see when their natural blooming time is - Mine have been planted all along, but are just starting to grow. My giant Urginea maritima, on the other hand, is in full wake up mode now. On Sat, Nov 22, 2014 at 4:47 PM, Kenneth wrote: > Good question Jude. My answer is I do not remember the order saying > flowering size. Also my experience in mail order is mostly orchids. > Flowering size does not ensure flowering. I usually get flowering the > following season. > > Ken P > Old Bridge, NJ > Zone 6b > > > On Nov 22, 2014, at 4:38 PM, Jude Haverington > wrote: > > > > Why didn't you expect flowers ? > >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki > From kimcmich@hotmail.com Tue, 25 Nov 2014 15:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: Kipp McMichael Subject: Congrats to Nhu Date: Tue, 25 Nov 2014 08:18:27 -0800 Greetings, Not bulbs, but tangentially bulbous by way of our illustrious prez? http://phys.org/news/2014-11-mushroom-campus.html Hopefully this time the ibiblio list won't id this email as spam... -| From: "John Weatherstone" Subject: Remove me from list Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 21:12:48 +1100 Would you please remove me from the list. I am just finding there is too much traffic which is not relevant to my climate or interests. Thank you. John Weatherstone lyndfieldpark@gmail.com From robin@no1bird.net Wed, 26 Nov 2014 13:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <547642BA.5080606@no1bird.net> From: Robin Subject: Remove me from list Date: Wed, 26 Nov 2014 16:14:34 -0500 whew! amen On 11/26/2014 5:12 AM, John Weatherstone wrote: > Would you please remove me from the list. I am just finding there is too > much traffic which is not relevant to my climate or interests. > > > > Thank you. > > > > John Weatherstone > > > > lyndfieldpark@gmail.com > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Thu, 27 Nov 2014 18:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: "AW" Subject: A good season Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 18:16:07 -0800 It has been terribly dry here this year with well above normal temperatures, However, those conditions have been ideal for potted bulbs. Bulbs in the ground are still below ground. Still, let's enjoy what we have. With virtually no rain since March and an unrelenting summer the oxalis and nerines have flowered wonderfully. With the lightest of waterings in September and October the resulting displays came later but were far more floriferous. And, of course, there were no predators. It's just as well that we have something to enjoy. With dying trees and shrubs, collapsing cacti and water rationing the bulbous systems have responded well, albeit with a bare modicum of water. Andrew San Diego From jwickham@sbcglobal.net Thu, 27 Nov 2014 19:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <1417141447.91714.YahooMailNeo@web185301.mail.gq1.yahoo.com> From: John Wickham Subject: A good season Date: Thu, 27 Nov 2014 18:24:07 -0800 Here in LA, my Nerine also did exceptionally well this year. At the moment, I've got Oxalis, Lachenalia, Polyxena (which are now Lachenalia), Gladiolus, and Freesia blooming. Most everything is up and putting on growth. All in pots. John On Thursday, November 27, 2014 6:16 PM, AW wrote: It has been terribly dry here this year with well above normal temperatures, However, those conditions have been ideal for potted bulbs. Bulbs in the ground are still below ground. Still, let's enjoy what we have. With virtually no rain since March and an unrelenting summer the oxalis and nerines have flowered wonderfully. With the lightest of waterings in September and October the resulting displays came later but were far more floriferous. And, of course, there were no predators. It's just as well that we have something to enjoy. With dying trees and shrubs, collapsing cacti and water rationing the bulbous systems have responded well, albeit with a bare modicum of water. Andrew San Diego From lthames@cableone.net Fri, 28 Nov 2014 05:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: From: linda thames Subject: AW and John W. Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 06:33:53 -0600 Do you grow your potted bulbs in a greenhouse or out in the open? Linda From pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Fri, 28 Nov 2014 08:17:05 -0800 Message-Id: <8D1D9375029736B-1B8C-2678F@webmail-vm105.sysops.aol.com> From: Ernie DeMarie via pbs Subject: A good season Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:30:03 -0500 Wow, it so dry that even cacti are having trouble? That says something. I guess the bulbs in the ground are still biding their time hoping for winter rains, some can skip a growing season so maybe this kind of odd year is why that happens perhaps. Here in NY we have had no shortage of rain except in late summer early fall, the frosts arrived in the last couple of weeks along with some snow, and no bulbs are flowering outside except for a Nerine bowdenii that tried but got frosted. Some in pots are blooming, they are hardy enough but have such a late blooming habit that frost often destroys the flowers. Wish we could give Cali some precipitation in exchange for warmth, but the weather is so unpredictable these days. Glad to know the potted bulbs are doing well. Ernie DeMarie NY where it is sunny and cold with a few inches of snow on the ground. From awilson@avonia.com Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <41CA5970483F4C07988043F12107CF03@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: AW and John W. (re A good season) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:19:23 -0800 In my case all potted bulbs are in full sun outdoors. Andrew From arnold140@verizon.net Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <60F447B7-6E9E-4A26-A921-796519A95724@verizon.net> From: Arnold Subject: AW and John W. (re A good season) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 12:35:20 -0500 It always helps to have a location with signature even if it's just a general location. Arnold New Jersey Sent from my iPhone > On Nov 28, 2014, at 12:19 PM, "AW" wrote: > > In my case all potted bulbs are in full sun outdoors. > > Andrew > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki From awilson@avonia.com Fri, 28 Nov 2014 10:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <4DA082B0AE184C388ACE9BF3F49FF93E@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: A good season Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 09:37:27 -0800 Large cacti and large aloes are suffering and the south American species from Brazil and Uruguay are dying unless they received a lot of summer water. This mediterranean climate is not ideal for them in any case but lowered rainfall has made matters worse. Bulbs in the ground are fine and will be OK if we get rain this winter. They probably will not flower, however. Amaryllis belladonna, Brunsvigias etc. are not showing any leaves yet so, despite water rationing, I have started to water them. In pots Nerine sarniensis were exceptionally good and after years of growing them in 4 inch pots I transferred many to short 1 gallon pots two years ago. The warnings I received about moving them to larger pots proved incorrect. They are far better now and took just one year off from blooming. Andrew San Diego From awilson@avonia.com Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:17:07 -0800 Message-Id: <65E53DD9F2DE4541BFAEEA627E7005FE@Desktop> From: "AW" Subject: AW and John W. (re A good season) Date: Fri, 28 Nov 2014 11:16:00 -0800 Indeed, I agree. I had provided mine in the original message. Andrew San Diego From enoster@hotmail.com Sat, 29 Nov 2014 08:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: From: T O Subject: Citing text from the Wiki Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 08:08:13 -0800 How could I cite a page from the Wiki? Would the author be "Pacific Bulb Society" for a cited Wiki page on any specific genus? And how can I find the date? Here's the example citation I found: Author, A. A., & Author, B. B. (Date of publication). Title of article.Title of Online Periodical, volume number(issue number if available). Retrieved from http://www.someaddress.com/full/url/ Thanks! From pbs@pilling.demon.co.uk Sat, 29 Nov 2014 10:17:06 -0800 Message-Id: <547A0853.7010404@pilling.demon.co.uk> From: David Pilling Subject: Citing text from the Wiki Date: Sat, 29 Nov 2014 17:54:27 +0000 Hi, On 29/11/2014 16:08, T O wrote: > How could I cite a page from the Wiki? > Would the author be "Pacific Bulb Society" for a cited Wiki page on any specific genus? And how can I find the date? > Here's the example citation I found: > Author, A. A., & Author, B. B. (Date of publication). Title of article.Title of Online Periodical, volume number(issue number if available). Retrieved from http://www.someaddress.com/full/url/ Depends... some wiki pages have text attributed to specific people, you can find when that text was added from the history display (there's a button to click to see this, you have to know the password to access it). Other pages are the work of many people and text may come from sources unknown. In those cases I'd suggest attributing to the "PBS wiki" with no author. The date could be when you read it, thinking that is when the text existed. Unlike traditional journals wiki pages can change as new information becomes available. Possibly this problem has already been solved for wikipedia. If you wanted a URL to a wiki page as it existed at a given time, then I suspect they end up in the web archive (http://archive.org/web/). -- David Pilling North West England