Leo Martin stnalpsoel@gmail.com
Mon, 16 Mar 2015 18:09:14 PDT
Relax. Everyone knows "Hemi" means the engine has a hemispherical
combustion chamber. Fiat makes 'em.

Leo Martin
Zone ?
Phoenix Arizona USA
On Mar 16, 2015 5:22 PM, <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> wrote:

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Today's Topics:

   1. Re: Nocturnal floral visitors of bulbs (Travis O)
   2. Re: Erythronium seed dispersal (Travis O)
   3. Re: Spring is here (Robin)
   4. Re: I want Gethyllis seeds (drewartistically@aol.com)
   5. Re: Growing parasitic plants, (Pamela Harlow)
   6. Call for applications for the 2015 MSI grant (Nhu Nguyen)
   7. Erythronium seed dispersal (Jane McGary)
   8. Rant warning: myrmecophory/ myrmecochory;
      semiparasitic/hemiparasitic (Jim McKenney)
   9. Re: Stormproof bulbs (Robin)
  10. Re: Stormproof bulbs (Jim McKenney)


Message: 1
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 20:52:28 -0700
From: Travis O <enoster@hotmail.com>
To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Nocturnal floral visitors of bulbs
Message-ID: <COL403-EAS3076DF1CC8105A2B2BD60DEBB020@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Sorry, the link was merged with the text, here it is again:


-Travis Owen
Rogue River, OR


Message: 2
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 21:01:29 -0700
From: Travis O <enoster@hotmail.com>
To: "pbs@lists.ibiblio.org" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Erythronium seed dispersal
Message-ID: <COL403-EAS296BFA056C3FF75A138C8AEBB020@phx.gbl>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="Windows-1252"

Thank you, Nathan Lange, well spoken. I did not consider the longevity of
Erythronium lifetimes. Anyone know how long an individual bulb can live?
Longer than me, I'm sure.

I posed the same question to the Native Plant Society of Oregon (NPSO, nice
folks by the way) and received a similar answer. One response was that
before the spread of invasive humans (like me) fire was common here. When a
fire came through, removed brush and let light in, all the non-flowering
individuals currently in deep shade would bloom.

I did consider rodents as seed dispersal vectors, but birds seem more
likely. An interesting study would test the ability of Western NA
Erythronium seed to survive the digestive tract of a bird (a quick ride, I
think). Anyone have any extra bird bile?

-Travis Owen
Rogue River, OR



Message: 3
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:23:23 -0400
From: Robin <robin@no1bird.net>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Spring is here
Message-ID: <5505F84B.7080606@no1bird.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed

come down to beaufort, sc.  beautiful  here and 77degrees.

On 3/15/2015 3:20 PM, Ernie DeMarie via pbs wrote:
> Well I think we are getting closer but so far other than the winter
aconites at school, I did see a witch hazel in bloom at Wave Hill garden in
the Bronx this morning.  Snow is receding faster, it is apparent the voles
were as usual favored by the long period of snow cover, but so too were
things like certain delospermas and other low growing plants.  It rained
heavily yesterday then got very foggy, today is very windy and cold but
above freezing.  Should be sunny and warmer tomorrow, maybe 50 but
accuweather has a story about the cold front (fomer "polar vortexes")
coming down on us again but of course the cold will not be so severe, just
cooler than normal for March at times.  Really would like to break out of
this pattern it gets old fast.
> Inside the bulbs don't know the difference, various Oxalis obtusa clones
are flowering along with some pelargonium species and a smattering of other
bulbs like the red form of Babiana villosa.
> Ernie in NY watching the flag by the house across the street fly in the
> _______________________________________________
> pbs mailing list
> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/


Message: 4
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 02:46:11 -0400
From: drewartistically@aol.com
To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
Subject: Re: [pbs] I want Gethyllis seeds
Message-ID: <14c21552a63-4b36-de62@webprd-a79.mail.aol.com>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8

We do have some Gethyllis seeds...at present we have G spiralis and G
villosa...and will have other species as they ripen/appear etc
Also are for sale on Ebay as 'special-african-bulbs'

-----Original Message-----
From: ?? <369427344@qq.com>
To: pbs <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Fri, Mar 13, 2015 11:16 am
Subject: [pbs] I want Gethyllis seeds

Dear Sir
  If you have Gethyllis seeds ,ir know who have the seeds,please
inform me!!!

pbs mailing


Message: 5
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 07:47:29 -0700
From: Pamela Harlow <pamela@polson.com>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Growing parasitic plants,
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Jelitto seed offers blue fescue and many others.

On Sun, Mar 15, 2015 at 8:22 PM, Joyce Miller <Miller7398@comcast.net>

> Dear Kathleen,
> Thank you for your note on hemi-parasitic plants.  Do do you know of a
> source for blue fescue seeds. T & M used to carry it but not now.
> Joyce Miller, Gresham, Oregon
> Castillejas (paintbrushes) are hemi-parasites; some years ago a method was
> developed to grow these species from seed:  Sow fescue (grass) seeds over
> flat of potting soil, grow the grass so that it is well established (3-6
> months), then sow Castilleja seeds among the fescue plants. If you know
> broomrape hosts, you could try a similar method.
> _______________________________________________
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> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/


Message: 6
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 10:47:33 -0500
From: Nhu Nguyen <xerantheum@gmail.com>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [pbs] Call for applications for the 2015 MSI grant
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Dear PBS members and supporters,

The Mary Sue Ittner Grant for Bulb Studies provides monetary support for
any geophyte related studies/projects. It is available to our members

This is a call for applications, which is due April 15, 2015.

You may find the application and more details here

We hope to see some great applications this year!

Nhu Nguyen
PBS President


Message: 7
Date: Mon, 16 Mar 2015 11:00:46 -0700
From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [pbs] Erythronium seed dispersal
Message-ID: <E1YXZJs-00085N-HO@elasmtp-curtail.atl.sa.earthlink.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed

My apology for misremembering and misspelling some of the details of
the Rock Garden Quarterly article on the above subject. I think that,
given the nature of the author's correspondence, it must have been a
case of traumatic repressed memory.

The correct spelling of the term for ant dispersal is myrmecochory.

The western American Erythronium species' seeds do not have
elaiosomes. However, when one looks at a native population of them,
they are rather evenly spread out in an area, so the seeds are being
dispersed some distance from the parent plants by some mechanism. One
correspondent suggested caching by voles; however, the presence of
voles in this region often works against the presence of bulbs, which
are a favorite food of the animals, and germination from vole or
mouse caches is likely to produce close clusters of seedlings.

Species flowering here today: Erythronium hendersonii, E.
grandiflorum, E. oreganum, E. multiscapideum, E. citrinum.

Jane McGary
Portland, Oregon, USA


Message: 8
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 00:07:58 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jim McKenney <jamesamckenney@verizon.net>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: [pbs] Rant warning: myrmecophory/ myrmecochory;
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Jane wrote ?Myapology for misremembering and misspelling some of the
details of?
the RockGarden Quarterly article on the above subject.?

We haven?t had a good language rant for a while, so heregoes. As far as I?m
concerned, Janedoes not owe an apology to anyone ? certainly not to me or
the many otherpeople who have used the word myrmecophory for decades.? In
other recent posts, the word hemiparasitichas appeared. Picky about word
usage as I sometimes am, I would not take anyoneto task for using
semiparasitic instead of hemiparasitic. I?ve gotsomething to say about all
of this.

Let?s take a look at myrmecophory vs. myrmecochory first.These are
so-called New Latin words. They did not exist in Classical Latin and,more
to the point since they are formed from Classical Greek combining
forms,they did not exist in Classical Greek. But, those Greek roots,
however combined,do carry with them fragments of meaning. In the case of
myrmecophory, thosemeanings are ?ant? and ?to carry?. In the case of
myrmecochory, those meaningsare ?ant? and ?to dance? (think choreography).
To be sure, their meaningsderive from the way they are used and not from
the meanings of their componentparts. Thus, myrmycophory would be a good
word to describe both a process whichcauses ants to be carried by something
or just as well a process in which antscarry something. It?s my choice for
the process in which ants distribute seeds.

Myrmecochory ?likewisemight be used for a type of dance in which the
movements of ants are mimicked(in The Ballet of the Ants maybe) , ?orjust
as well a process in which ants themselves dance something (the ant
jig?).Since there is no law which prohibits scientists from using metaphor
or a bitof poetic license, we don?t have to get too exercised about why
this word wasput together this way. But when you know the etymology of the
words in question,it seems to me that myrmecophory says it better than

In fact, when I see this word myrmecochory, I?m reminded ofone of my aunts
squealing at the sight of ants dancing all over her peonyflowers.

Now on to semiparasitic and hemiparasitic: when coining newplant names
which are compound words made by putting together bits and pieces ofLatin
or Greek, Botanists have long followed the rule that Latin is combinedwith
Latin and Greek is combined with Greek; Latin and Greek should not
becombined in the same word (this rule caused the metamorphosis of the
Erythroniumspecies name multiscapoideum to multiscapideum; multiscapoideum
was poor formbecause it combined Latin and Greek).

Among the things which this rule does not make allowancesfor are the facts
that, for one, Latin and Greek had a long history ofborrowing words one
from the other. And since those languages used differentalphabets, all such
borrowed words had to be respelled. In some old herbals theLatin and Greek
forms of the words are given side by side, but since few peopleoutside of
Greece read the Greek alphabet, ?the Latin spellings wonout. Those Latin
spellings did not arise out of the blue: the Latin spellingsof Greek words
were phonetic spellings: i.e. to the Romans who used them, ifthe words were
pronounced according to the rules for the pronunciation ofLatin, the
resulting sound would come close to the sound of the Greek word fromwhich
the Latinized form was derived. Since there were sounds in Greek whichLatin
did not have, certain Latinized words sport creative spellings, and someof
the ambiguities of the Latin alphabet (such as the letter s: does
itrepresent an s sound or a z soun
 d or did the Romans not make a distinction?)probably caused problems for
the Greeks (Greek had both the s sound and the zsound and treated them as
different sounds ? different phonemes to betechnical).

This worked well as long as people knew how to pronounceLatin.

In the English speaking world, the prevailing style ofpronouncing Latin and
Latinized Greek is several hundred years old (there is adetailed Wikipedia
article on this if you are interested ? or can?t get tosleep right away).?
Scholars of Latin andGreek abandoned this system of pronunciation over a
century ago. In otherwords, the system of pronunciation in general use for
scientific names has notbeen used by those in the know for over a century.
Imagine if someone gave a talk to your garden club and used the taxonomy of
a century ago: everyone who knew modern taxonomy would be outraged. But no
one stirs when pronunciations discredited a century ago are used.?

So, while pronunciations have changed, the keepers of thegate have
meticulously maintained the orthography (spelling). What the averageguy
does not know is that those spellings are the Latin spellings, the
phoneticspellings which enabled educated Romans to approximate the sound of
Greek.Since the average guy does not know how to pronounce Latin (and there
are noancient Greeks to correct him when the speaker gets to the Latinized
Greekwords) , when he pronounces those words the sounds which come out are
gobbledygook.Make that officially sanctioned gobbledygook.

We live in the age of television. I mean the wordtelevision: when the word
television was coined ( part Greek, part Latin) ashudder went through the
world?s ivory towers. It was uncouth, it broke theprohibition against
combining Latin and Greek in the same word. And to addinsult to injury, the
English- speaking world embraced it and the freedom to combine Latin and
Greek in the same word.

Now back to semiparasite and hemiparasite. I grew up usingthe word
semiparasite, as did everyone else I encountered who had need of sucha
concept. My Webster?s Seventh (1963) has entries for both words.
ClassicalLatin had ?words derived from the Greekword for parasite, and
Classical Latin used both the Greek derived hemi- andthe Latin semi-.
However, if the word semiparasiticus or similar words wereused in Classical
Latin, evidence of such usage does not survive. Nor doesevidence of a
Classical Latin word hemiparasiticus survive. Furthermore, thestandard
Greek-English lexicon does not show a Classical Greek wordcorresponding to
hemiparasite. ?That makesthese words hemiparasite and semiparasite?New
Latin: words coined in modern times to look like Latin or LatinizedGreek.

To my sensibilities - and remember, I grew up in the post television(the
word, not the device) ?world ? this wordhemiparasite has a holier-than-thou
quality to it ? it?s the sort of thing onewould expect of some lonely,
underpublished academic still scratching forrecognition, still willing to
apply the ?rule ?long obsolete in English - ?of not combining Latin and
Greek in the sameword. As a stylistic matter, it makes sense to use
hemiparasiticus if one iswriting in Latin. But I?m not writing in Latin,
I?m writing in English, and inmy English semiparasitic is still good form.?

Jim McKenneyMontgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where we've just
come through a perfect early spring day with things popping up faster than
I can keep up with them.?


Message: 9
Date: Sun, 15 Mar 2015 17:17:16 -0400
From: Robin <robin@no1bird.net>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Stormproof bulbs
Message-ID: <5505F6DC.1000808@no1bird.net>
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed


On 3/15/2015 5:01 PM, Jane McGary wrote:
> After a remarkably dry, warm winter (the jet stream stole our weather
> and took it to the other side of the Rocky Mountains), this weekend we
> in western Oregon have seen heavy rain and high wind. (It's still
> warm.) I went out to see how the front garden is doing just now,
> before hastening indoors for fear a large Douglas fir would fall over
> on me, and noticed how well the flowering bulbs are standing up to it.
> The first that caught my eye was Iris bucharica, bright yellow flowers
> cheerfully upright and open atop a gravelly berm. In the same area I
> noticed Narcissus rupicola, Narcissus alpestris (I think; it came as
> N. moschatus), and a couple of taller Narcissus species. Erythronium
> grandiflorum and a neighboring geophyte, Dodecatheon clevelandii,
> stood up too. Muscari species are completely stormproof with their
> stout stems and little nodding florets, and not all of them are
> aggressive. In the flat part of the garden Erythronium hendersonii
> looks good, as do the delicate-appearing flowers of Corydalis 'Beth
> Evans'. Early Ranunculus and Anemone species close up a little in the
> dim light but seem undamaged, including Anemone blanda, Anemone
> nemorosa, Anemone palmata, Anemone appenina, and a couple of the
> mild-mannered Ranunculus ficaria double forms. Still in bud but well
> supported by their tall stems are Notholirion thomsonianum,
> Fritillaria amana, and Fritillaria acmopetala. Over in the bulb lawn
> the grass is helping support its later bloomers, such as Narcissus
> calcicola (don't be shocked; it got there as random seedlings) and
> low-growing Ornithogalum species that flower close to the ground. A
> little berm above that feature is displaying several Dodecatheon
> species from the Pacific Northwest. In the border many Fritillaria
> meleagris are up far enough to be raising their opening flowers; you
> will see that many Fritillaria species keep their stems bent over near
> ground level until on the point of opening, which may be a way of
> avoiding grazing animals. And across the road frontage,  a lot of
> cheap daffodils are still standing, except for 'Cheerfulness', a
> double that I had to cut for the house.
> It's nice to know that however refined our plants may look, they have
> evolved resistance to the storms of spring.
> Jane McGary
> Portland, Oregon, USA
> _______________________________________________
> pbs mailing list
> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php
> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/


Message: 10
Date: Tue, 17 Mar 2015 00:20:47 +0000 (UTC)
From: Jim McKenney <jamesamckenney@verizon.net>
To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Subject: Re: [pbs] Stormproof bulbs
Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8

Robin wrote "showoff!" in response to Jane's post.?
Right. I loved the way she began by nibbling on humble pie and closed with
the sort of spread one gets at the best local country inn.?Brava Jane!


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