Jo-Ann, I don't believe I'm familiar with that case. Do you recall the defendant and the crop? Thanks Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf Of > Jo&Greg > Sent: Saturday, June 23, 2018 3:47 PM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > Tim, with due respect, that was not the case. > Monsanto's original claim was that of willful intent to steal, but when it was > obvious it would not go forward because the defendant proved in pre-trial he > did not know his seed had been infected, and the infection of his seed was > undesirable ... he was an organic grain farmer. So the Monsanto lawyers > narrowed the legal argument to usage, not willful intent to steal or profit, a > de facto crime whether or not intended, and that was how the company won > the case. And I read the judge's statement. More importantly, I read his > comments, which the federal judge also specifically asked to be published in > Canadian media ... to wit ... that he (the judge) felt the issue was a > miscarriage of justice, that he was constrained to find against the farmer, > who was now bankrupt largely because of the ruining of his grain, only > because his power as a judge was limited to a ruling that fell ONLY within the > legal wording in the complaint. He said the Monsanto lawyers were very > careful to word their complaint just so, and so they won. The judge said in > words of one syllable that the farmer was right, and further that Monsanto > had used its power to destroy a farmer and send a message to all who > disagreed. He said that if he were able in some legal way, he would have not > only found against Monsanto, but forced them to pay all the legal costs, pay > back the farmer for lost harvest, and levied fines against the company as > large a fine as Canadian jurisprudence could allow. > > So, whatever side of the GMO fence one lives one, I agree, Tom ... be careful > of only reading only what you already agree with. > Jo-Ann Canning > Vancouver Island > > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs <pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> On Behalf Of Tim Eck > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 7:00 PM > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > It's worth mentioning that "the horrible Monsanto cases" were decided based > on the willful intent and action of a farmer to steal the RoundUp Ready gene > from a neighbor's pollen source and breed his own RoundUp Ready seed > without compensating Monsanto. It's so easy to buy into villainizing > propaganda when you only get your information from "like-minded people". > > Tim Eck > > “Time is nature’s way of preventing everything from happening at once.” > Anon. > > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf > > Of Jo&Greg > > Sent: Thursday, June 21, 2018 12:43 PM > > To: 'Pacific Bulb Society' > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > Perhaps a note or two regarding patented plants may help. My comments > > come from my experience with publishing, and copyright info in both > > USA and Canada ... copyright is slightly different yet using the same > > underlying principles as a patent. > > "Resale" and "propagation" and "commercial" all refer to for-profit > business. > > Non-profit organizations can offer books, plants, seed, etc., for sale > > without crossing copyright -- and as far as I've found out -- patent > > regulations. Plant patents are also legally suspect. You cannot patent > > a recipe or technique and the horrible Monsanto cases against the > > grain farmers aside, some feel the change in the plant is more like a > > recipe shift than something new or unique (the DNA is not > > fundamentally changed), and natural self-sowing or seed drift from natural > sources are outside the purview of an intent to retail a product. > > That said, plants can at present be patented. > > > > So, I'd go ahead and have that plant sale and seed swap. And remember, > > though we are not a group of veggies farmers, when it comes to Big Hort: > > "Control my food, control my politics, control distribution, control my > politics." > > Just my old-hippie-somewhat-anarchistic opinion. > > Jo Canning > > Vancouver Island, Canada > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: pbs <pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> On Behalf Of Jan > > Jeddeloh > > Sent: Wednesday, June 20, 2018 4:10 PM > > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > Subject: Re: [pbs] Question regarding commercial advertising > > > > While we’re griping about Big Horticulture I’d like to add my gripe > > about patented plants. I’ve been stung too often by patented pretty > > faces and have learned that a patent does not necessarily reflect the > > value or grow-ability of the plant, although it seems like it ought > > to. Too often big nurseries patent every tiny variation and rush the > > plant to market. Sometimes it appears they apply for a patent just to > > lock up the market for a year or two and then stop producing the plant > > once the word gets out that it’s not a good doer. You go to the > > nursery, are smitten with the pretty face, bring home your new plant > > whereupon it promptly dies. I’ve had this experience several times. > > And don’t get me started on the million heucheras or coneflowers out > > there. They are sold as perennials but most have an annual life in > > your normal, less than perfect home garden. You know, the home garden > that does not have the mythical well drained, evenly moist soil. > > > > Patented plant are also becoming a problem for plant society plant > > sales. I organize our NARGS chapter participation in the Hortlandia > > sale and we have to watch that we don’t offer patented plants. As > > more and more plants are patented it will become harder to find plants > > we can propagate. Yes growing from seed it great but many of our > > members want to donate divisions and cutting grown plants. Plant tags > > get lost and it would be very easy to inadvertently offer a patented plant for > sale. > > > > I realize plant breeders want to get some kind of return from their > > investment of time and money but it shouldn’t be too much to ask that > > the plants be good doers and truly unique. They should also be > > adequately trailed. One or two years is just not enough. I have > > found a couple of patented plants that are worth growing. Geranium > > “Roxanne” blooms all summer, does not spit seed all over and is tough. > > Salvia “Amistad”, while tender, puts on a great summer show and is > > much beloved by bees and hummingbirds. It also seems rather silly to > > patent plants that will self propagated. If it’s going to form a big > > clump you can easily hack apart gardeners are going to share it > > around. This takes no real skill. If you want to patent a plant it ought to > require a bit of skill to propagate or you will lose the battle of controlling its > propagation. > > > > To bring this back around to bulbs does anyone know of any patented > > bulbs? I know Terra Nova at one point had applied for a patent on a > > Cyclamen coum selection with a Christmas tree marking on the leaves. > > I wonder if this was denied because it wouldn’t be hard to find look a > > likes in many groups of coum seedlings. It’s not in their current catalog. > > > > Jan Jeddeloh > > > On Jun 20, 2018, at 9:59 AM, Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> > > wrote: > > > > > > I've been purchasing plants and bulbs for about 35 years now. I'm > > > fortunate > > to live in Clackamas County, Oregon, which has more nurseries than any > > other US county, so "local" can mean anything from a daphne at the > farmers' > > market to a viburnum from the big Monrovia fields on the other side of > > the river. I buy some unusual cultivars and rooted cuttings for > > cutflowers by mail order, mostly from specialty nurseries. Most years > > I obtain some commercial bulbs for planting out in front of the house > > -- daffodils to distract the bulb fly from the good ones in back, anemones > and crocuses for the bulb lawn, etc. > > Almost all of my bulb "collection" has been grown from seed. > > > > > > I agree with Robin that there's false advertising by large > > > commercial > > nurseries, but small ones do so as well, especially in exaggerating > > cold- hardiness. They may not mean to, but if you're growing plants on > > an island you don't have the same conditions as most of your customers > > who live 150 km or more inland. Conversely, nurseries in colder areas > > who keep all their stock in greenhouses may produce plants that are > > hard to acclimate to outdoor conditions anywhere. Growing your own > > from seed is likely to result in losses, but the survivors will be easier to keep, > and much cheaper. > > > > > > Two years ago I had the experience Ellen mentions of buying a shrub > > > that > > had been bulked up by keeping two cuttings in one pot, but I got it at > > the farmers' market and the grower told me about it. It's a hybrid > > daphne; I was able to disentangle the root systems, potted them > > separately for a couple of months before planting out, and now have > > two very fine shrubs. This spring I went on a spending spree on > > Dianthus cultivars. One nursery sent me excellent plants, but > > another's plants had been in their pots far too long (I repotted them > > and waited until they recovered to plant them out). I almost never put > > a purchased plant into the garden the day after I get it. For one thing, you > have to watch them for disease. > > > > > > As for bulbs that fail, it helps to understand the growth cycles, > > > natural > > habitats, and structure of the particular species and genera. Bulbs > > with strong tunics, such as tulips, can stand dry storage much better > > than those without tunics, such as most Fritillaria. A species native > > to rocky desert will survive storage better than one native to river > > meadows. A species native to the alpine zone may not flourish without > > a long winter dormancy (hence the plants "hardy in Denver" that can't > > be grown in lowland gardens). It is also instructive to learn how > > commercial bulbs are grown and processed in the Netherlands, where > > they can be grown in sand, heavily fertilized, protected from > > predators, lifted and kept in warehouses controlled for temperature > > and humidity, and exported in advantageous condition. After a month at > > Home Depot and transfer to a home garden, they'll likely perform for a > > year but that may be the limit of their adaptability. Moreover, > > controlled conditions can suppress the activity of viruses, which may > > resurface in the home garden; that's why all my tulips are grown from seed, > and I buy lily bulbs only from The Lily Garden, which I trust to provide clean > stock. > > > > > > So read, read, read, and be prepared to lose some plants anyway. You > > > can > > identify an experienced gardener by their possession of a big bag of > > plantless labels. > > > > > > Jane McGary > > > > > > Portland, Oregon, USA > > > > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > > > --- > > This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. > > https://www.avg.com/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…