I live in New South Wales, Australia, north of Nyngan, I have to lift my dormant winter bulbs as they cannot handle to baking heat out here, atm 38 deg C at 10.32 am forcast to go to 43+ C today. I lost a lot of bulbs as I didn't realise how dessicated they would become if left in pots, so about October/November I lift the winter bulbs & store them in my kitchen in small containers with their tags, about April I repot them for their winter growing period. My hippeastrums are grown in 1/2 metre pots so a bit big to lump around. I have 6 - 8 bulbs per pot they grow summer & winter under shade cloth & as they don't go dormant here it is a case of water once a week in summer, in winter probably only once a month, I check soil moisture before I water. My other SA bulbs such as agapanthus, crinums, etc are grown in again 1/2 metre pots similarly to the hippeastrums, my problem is drying out during summer so I have to check all the time that they don't, even the dormant ones such as haemanthus, brunsvigia & scadoxus which can die if badly dried out. We can get frosts here, down to -3, so have to protect the bulbs with frost cloth during winter as lost some SA bulbs a couple of years ago to frost. Just a matter of interest for this area, most people advocate leaving bearded iris rhizomes either on top of soil or half buried, out here you do that you lose them, they need afternoon shade in summer & rhizomes buried to the fan or they get cooked, so mine are in pots, under shade cloth rhizome buried to the fan. The scorch factor is about double most other areas. Ann Ballard, living the dream in dusty, smoky Australia -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Sent: Friday, December 20, 2019 8:05 AM To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 34, Issue 22 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Kenneth Preteroti) 2. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Arnold Trachtenberg) 3. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Kathleen Sayce) 4. Re: Regulatory hell EU edition (David Pilling) 5. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Mary Sue Ittner) 6. Bulbs from Northern Cape, South Africa (Kenneth Preteroti) 7. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Cody H) 8. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Jane McGary) 9. Re: DORMANT TEMPERATURES (Cody H) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:32:52 -0500 From: Kenneth Preteroti <k.preteroti@verizon.net> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <C33D23F5-A380-4DA4-9C4E-E5F6D7DA18F7@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Arnold I leave my SA winter bulbs in the greenhouse during the summer. Yes the temps get hot 115 degrees. No shade cloth. I put the bulbs on the floor under the shelves. The bulbs that have persistent roots may get a shower every few weeks. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6 b ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 16:45:46 +0000 (UTC) From: Arnold Trachtenberg <arnold140@verizon.net> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <584314686.1476459.1576773946385@mail.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Thanks Ken. If I could leave them in the greenhouse it would save the trouble of carrying all of the potted plants down the stairs into the basement. Arnold -----Original Message----- From: Kenneth Preteroti via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> To: pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> Cc: Kenneth Preteroti <k.preteroti@verizon.net> Sent: Thu, Dec 19, 2019 11:33 am Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Arnold I leave my SA winter bulbs in the greenhouse during the summer. Yes the temps get hot 115 degrees. No shade cloth. I put the bulbs on the floor under the shelves. The bulbs that have persistent roots may get a shower every few weeks. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6 b _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 09:31:02 -0800 From: Kathleen Sayce <kathleen.sayce@gmail.com> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <5BA5EE65-8729-475A-9EE9-D0A13837A4B6@gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii My SA bulbs grow in an open side cold frame, basically an alpine house, with open sides and a clear top. I water green and growing bulbs no more than every two weeks, and do not water the dormant bulbs at all. The sides are closed only when prolonged subfreezing temperatures are forecast, below 28F or 2 C, which does not happen every winter. These bulbs seem to do well, though the low light levels mean many grow quite tall. They include Veltheimia, Moraea, several Lycoris, and others, as it is raining now, I am not running out there to get a current inventory! This does solve the winter rain issue for me, and I have been pleased to find most tolerate near freezing temperatures very well, as they should, because desert winter climates can actually be quite cold at night. Kathleen South Coast of Washington, z8 ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 18:00:34 +0000 From: David Pilling <david@davidpilling.com> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] Regulatory hell EU edition Message-ID: <2b26aba7-ee2b-ef32-0f0e-f4654521822f@davidpilling.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed Hi, On 18/12/2019 21:18, Jan Jeddeloh wrote: > Nothing has changed for us US folks but there was a whopper for EU residents. Discussed on the list some weeks back (starting here): https://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/… aj5bt3.html Thanks for the extra info. The only news about this I have heard (inside the EU) has come from sources in the USA. -- David Pilling http://www.davidpilling.com/ ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 10:21:36 -0800 From: Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <609d9ee9-d7a9-7487-be2f-bcf8a4a53465@mcn.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed I live in coastal northern California and I keep my winter dormant soft African bulbs either in my unheated greenhouse on the floor in winter (Haemanthus, Cyrtanthus, Nerine, Gloriosa, Sandersonia) or sheltered a bit from the wet outside (Eucomis and Merwilla). I expect my temperatures are similar to Sylvia's. As for the summer dormant bulbs the ones that live in the greenhouse year round (like some of the Nerines) stay there, but I move the rest that aren't in pots in pots in my raised beds to shady areas of the garden and don't water them except sometimes seedlings. Like Ken I give ones with perennial roots water every now and then. Mary Sue ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:57:43 -0500 From: Kenneth Preteroti <k.preteroti@verizon.net> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: [pbs] Bulbs from Northern Cape, South Africa Message-ID: <38A45070-856B-41A9-AD71-B47807C3C1EF@verizon.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 ?Awesome habitat photos. Where is the soil? I only see pebbles and sand. The red material is that a decomposed shale or is that the soil? Unusual. Ken P Old Bridge, NJ Zone 6 b ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 11:50:21 -0800 From: Cody H <plantboy@gmail.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <CAAgPc_5CckFJ6zOUuHau_TUNoLe-jE+rsaeooS3H_d4K-sSPOQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" This year I put my summer dormant bulbs (both South African and Californian) in their pots against a sunny south-facing wall, where temps probably break 100F at least 15 days during the summer. In that location, they receive no rain, and I didn?t water them at all, even the (relatively few) amaryllids. I just repotted them all and most are looking very good?healthy roots and not dessicated, and many are beginning to grow. The year before I kept them in the basement, where the temp rarely hits 75F, and although the bulbs looked fine when I reported them that fall, many of them failed to break dormancy that winter and I lost quite a few to rot. I will be putting them against that south facing wall again this summer! The winter dormant bulbs (mostly South American) I keep in their pots in a slightly greenhouse (min temp 35-40F), or unpotted in plastic baggies in the refrigerator (very dry, or wrapped in paper towels to protect them from condensed water droplets against the inside of the bag). That seems to work well. On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 10:21 AM Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> wrote: > I live in coastal northern California and I keep my winter dormant soft > African bulbs either in my unheated greenhouse on the floor in winter > (Haemanthus, Cyrtanthus, Nerine, Gloriosa, Sandersonia) or sheltered a > bit from the wet outside (Eucomis and Merwilla). I expect my > temperatures are similar to Sylvia's. > > As for the summer dormant bulbs the ones that live in the greenhouse > year round (like some of the Nerines) stay there, but I move the rest > that aren't in pots in pots in my raised beds to shady areas of the > garden and don't water them except sometimes seedlings. Like Ken I give > ones with perennial roots water every now and then. > > Mary Sue > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 12:33:24 -0800 From: Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> To: pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <bc491d7c-2771-67f4-93a6-dc4181ce81a3@earthlink.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8; format=flowed When we discuss how we grow certain bulbs, I think it's necessary to mention where we live. Cody, who posted recently, lives in a suburb of Seattle, Washington, where it may be safe to keep dormant bulbs "against a sunny south-facing wall," unwatered and with at least 15 days of high temperatures in summer. I live a couple of hundred miles south of him, near Portland, Oregon, and I'd kill a lot of bulbs if I did that in summer. Portland is in an inland valley, east of the Coast Ranges and west of the Cascade Range, and has more sun and lower humidity than Seattle in summer. If you live in California, don't do that at all, please. British gardening books often recommend "summer baking" for potted geophytes, but we have to consider the climate differences where the author is living (some parts of the British Isles get much more sun than others, and/or greater summer humidity). I mention humidity, rather than just rainfall, because it can affect soil moisture in pots. Remember, too, that many (though not all) dryland geophytes? keep their bulbs deep in the soil, where temperature and to some extent moisture are moderated. I manage soil moisture for dormant bulbs by keeping them plunged in sand and covered against rain. Half my collection is sprinkled lightly a few times during the dormant period, and half is not, depending on (1) whether the bulbs are in pots or directly in a raised bed, and (2) the climatic conditions they have adapted to in nature. The pots I use are either terra-cotta or plastic mesh (used for hydroponic and aquatic growing), not solid plastic. Some bulbs seem to break into growth in response to temperature, and others more to moisture. Some may just be "timed." This year we had significant rainfall in September, which is unusual, and some fall crocuses flowered a month or more earlier than they did in the roofed bulb house. Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA On 12/19/2019 11:50 AM, Cody H wrote: > This year I put my summer dormant bulbs (both South African and > Californian) in their pots against a sunny south-facing wall, where temps > probably break 100F at least 15 days during the summer. In that location, > they receive no rain, and I didn?t water them at all, even the (relatively > few) amaryllids. I just repotted them all and most are looking very > good?healthy roots and not dessicated, and many are beginning to grow. > > The year before I kept them in the basement, where the temp rarely hits > 75F, and although the bulbs looked fine when I reported them that fall, > many of them failed to break dormancy that winter and I lost quite a few to > rot. I will be putting them against that south facing wall again this > summer! > ------------------------------ Message: 9 Date: Thu, 19 Dec 2019 13:04:28 -0800 From: Cody H <plantboy@gmail.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> Subject: Re: [pbs] DORMANT TEMPERATURES Message-ID: <CAAgPc_72DSJ75=SrQ_p2B6wKfTfiU0tns_8hPPN5xWi7FDc-bQ@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" Good point Jane. I had meant to include my location, which is Carnation, WA, quite a bit east of Seattle and against the foothills of the Cascade mountains, where we receive about 50 inches/year?30% more than Seattle (forecast calls for 4 inches of rain over the next three days, for instance, and thats not particularly unusual this time of year)?and the humidity is quite high even during the warm summer months. I have lost plants to moisture-related decay (for example, a pot of alstroemeria seedlings) even against that south wall after having received no direct moisture for months. An empty 1-gallon pot of soil left out in the open on my property would almost never completely dry out. On the other hand, the only bulbs I put against that wall are from climates that are significantly hotter and drier than mine (e.g. lowland/inland South Africa and California). Also, relating to your point about bulbs growing deep in the soil where temps are moderated, I do pack the pots tightly together in deep trays so that they are buffered somewhat from the baking effect of the direct sunlight. On Thu, Dec 19, 2019 at 12:21 PM Jane McGary <janemcgary@earthlink.net> wrote: > When we discuss how we grow certain bulbs, I think it's necessary to > mention where we live. Cody, who posted recently, lives in a suburb of > Seattle, Washington, where it may be safe to keep dormant bulbs "against > a sunny south-facing wall," unwatered and with at least 15 days of high > temperatures in summer. I live a couple of hundred miles south of him, > near Portland, Oregon, and I'd kill a lot of bulbs if I did that in > summer. Portland is in an inland valley, east of the Coast Ranges and > west of the Cascade Range, and has more sun and lower humidity than > Seattle in summer. If you live in California, don't do that at all, > please. British gardening books often recommend "summer baking" for > potted geophytes, but we have to consider the climate differences where > the author is living (some parts of the British Isles get much more sun > than others, and/or greater summer humidity). I mention humidity, rather > than just rainfall, because it can affect soil moisture in pots. > Remember, too, that many (though not all) dryland geophytes keep their > bulbs deep in the soil, where temperature and to some extent moisture > are moderated. > > I manage soil moisture for dormant bulbs by keeping them plunged in sand > and covered against rain. Half my collection is sprinkled lightly a few > times during the dormant period, and half is not, depending on (1) > whether the bulbs are in pots or directly in a raised bed, and (2) the > climatic conditions they have adapted to in nature. The pots I use are > either terra-cotta or plastic mesh (used for hydroponic and aquatic > growing), not solid plastic. > > Some bulbs seem to break into growth in response to temperature, and > others more to moisture. Some may just be "timed." This year we had > significant rainfall in September, which is unusual, and some fall > crocuses flowered a month or more earlier than they did in the roofed > bulb house. > > Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA > > On 12/19/2019 11:50 AM, Cody H wrote: > > This year I put my summer dormant bulbs (both South African and > > Californian) in their pots against a sunny south-facing wall, where temps > > probably break 100F at least 15 days during the summer. In that location, > > they receive no rain, and I didn?t water them at all, even the > (relatively > > few) amaryllids. I just repotted them all and most are looking very > > good?healthy roots and not dessicated, and many are beginning to grow. > > > > The year before I kept them in the basement, where the temp rarely hits > > 75F, and although the bulbs looked fine when I reported them that fall, > > many of them failed to break dormancy that winter and I lost quite a few > to > > rot. I will be putting them against that south facing wall again this > > summer! > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… ------------------------------ End of pbs Digest, Vol 34, Issue 22 *********************************** -- This email has been checked for viruses by AVG. https://www.avg.com/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…