Ok for you Tony. First of all, y’all are comparing two different things. Imaging someone asking how to identify and grow a tree from the bulb people. The 12 or fewer plants imported into the US is in reference to need for an US import permit. This is a document that shares an agreement with a US resident and USDA APHIS PPQ. It states what an individual is authorized to do and be in agreement with US regulations this document can be presented to an exporting country to show the exporter that the request to import types of plants is authorized to the person who’s been issued the permit. The Phytosanitary certificate is different. As it’s an international agreement. The member countries that use Phytosanitary certificates agree to follow a format and document diseases and pests in their country and to have full disclosure about the plant pests and eradication processes or current status. The document is like a passport to allow certain species of plants to travel internationally. In this context the import permit is like a visa. My best free advice with out government filters of being polite, Always read the import manual for the most up to date information. They are hard to read. Often to general for the topics you want and to specific for topics you don’t want. Imagine one manual that will provide 100% of the information that is important to you and 0 for the information you don’t want to know. So far that as not been invented yet and unless you do it yourself it won’t be. Do buck up and read the manual no matter how hard that may be, if your an importer its your job to be informed about what you want to know. Yea and the system doesn’t work they way you think it should work, but very few people want to try to fix the system. Most want to give up and complain. The bottom line is to know 7 CFR316.37 that’s the Bible for plant import regulations. The manual tries to interpret old regulations into the modern context. Now that I’m no longer employed I don’t have to be polite. Three years ago I would sit on the phone and read the manual or cfr to importers, or try to save the import mess you created because you didn’t think before you bought or had the right documentation. I don’t get paid to do that anymore. But if this important to you. Then look it up and read. Become educated so when you do come across something you don’t know it’s not something that someone else said or something you heard, you can go to the source and seek clarification. https://aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/… Will Aley The Kracked Pot, Washington NC Retired senior import & regulatory specialist for plants for planting. Now I’m a potter, cook & massage therapist. > On Dec 9, 2019, at 4:04 PM, Tony Avent <Tony@plantdelights.com> wrote: > > I’m pretty sure the 12 plants without a phyto rule was done away with 10-15 years ago, but perhaps Will Alley will chime in. > > Tony Avent > Proprietor > tony@plantdelights.com > Juniper Level Botanic Garden<http://www.juniperlevelbotanicgarden.org/> and Plant Delights Nursery<http://www.plantdelights.com/> > Ph 919.772.4794/fx 919.772.4752 > 9241 Sauls Road, Raleigh, North Carolina 27603 USA > USDA Zone 7b/Winter 0-5 F/Summer 95-105F > "Preserving, Studying, Propagating, and Sharing the World’s Flora” > [new-logo] > Since 1988, Plant Delights Nursery is THE Source for unique, rare and native perennial plants. > > CONFIDENTIALITY NOTICE: > The contents of this email message and any attachments are intended solely for the addressee(s) and may contain confidential and/or privileged information and may be legally protected from disclosure. If you are not the intended recipient of this message or their agent, or if this message has been addressed to you in error, please immediately alert the sender by reply email and then delete this message and any attachments. If you are not the intended recipient, you are hereby notified that any use, dissemination, copying, or storage of this message or its attachments is strictly prohibited. > > > > From: pbs <pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> On Behalf Of Lee Poulsen > Sent: Monday, December 09, 2019 3:50 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Change in APHIS Plants/Plant Parts for Planting Procedures? > > Did you really mean *with* phytosanitary certificates? If a shipment is accompanied by a phytosanitary certificate, it doesn’t matter if there are fewer than or greater than 12 items; they should all be able to be imported into the U.S. > > If you meant *without* a phyto, then your query makes more sense. I’ve heard about the 12 or fewer rule for bulbs without a phyto, but I’ve never been able to find the exception in the APHIS documents. I would love to see it. > > --Lee Poulsen > Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a > Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m > >> On Dec 8, 2019, at 10:33 PM, Keith Maw <kdmaw48@gmail.com><mailto:kdmaw48@gmail.com%3e> wrote: >> >> For the last several years I’ve made small orders of bulbs, rhizomes, and other bare-root plants with phytosanitary certificates from nurseries in the UK and Japan with no problems. These orders have always been for 12 or fewer plants without the need for a permit, per the APHIS "Plants/Plant Parts for Planting” protocols. A friend in California has just received an alarming email from our favorite Japanese nursery that any further orders - regardless of size - will require a permit. I couldn’t find any changes on the APHIS web site. Has anyone else experienced this apparent change in policy? >> >> Keith Maw, Brier, WA >> > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net<mailto:pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > ________________________________ > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…