This is a very interesting read, thank you for sending. I just ordered some seeds from Oron Peri and having had no real problems in ordering seeds internationally in the past I wonder if they will arrive unscathed by the treatment manuals that were probably written in the dark cubicles of bureaucratic enclaves of the 1950’s. Funny how plants don’t really see borders the same way as humans do, rather they are very perceptive of changing climates and droughts and floods and far more in tune with nature’s changing ways then a geopolitical line will ever be. Mark Akimoff Illahe Nursery and Gardens Salem, Oregon > On Sep 4, 2019, at 8:37 PM, janjeddeloh@gmail.com wrote: > > So were all the intercepted seeds lathyrus varieties? I’m concerned because I have a seed order out with a British source who doesn’t usually request or deal with a Small Lots of Seed permit. I actually have a permit but didn’t send it to him. I’m wondering now if I should contact him > > Jan Jeddeloh > > Sent from my iPhone > >> On Sep 4, 2019, at 8:22 PM, Lee Poulsen <wpoulsen@pacbell.net> wrote: >> >> So I recently ordered sweet pea seeds from three sources in England and one in New Zealand. Their websites are fully automated and accept Visa, Mastercard, and Paypal. You never really interact with a person, unless they send you an email directly, after placing the order. I’ve ordered from these sources several times in past years and the seeds arrived with no problem. I never even had a chance to send them my seed import permit (“small lots of seeds” permit). So I assumed that there was little to no checking of small packets from first world countries. Then I also heard that a permit wasn’t needed for just a few (6? 10? 12?) packets from other countries. (Although I was never able to find this exemption on their website.) >> >> But in this most recent set of orders a month ago, the first two packages arrived from England no problem. But then I got the third one from England and the one from New Zealand, and both had been intercepted by the USDA and the seeds destroyed. So I re-ordered but sent messages to the vendors asking if I could send them a PDF of my permit so they could include it in the packages. They were happy to do so, but didn’t realize there was a problem. They had never had any of their packages sent to the U.S. intercepted before. One of them had also even heard about the “special allowance” for a few packets. Then they started emailing me that they were getting emails from a number of other American customers who had had their seed orders intercepted and destroyed the past couple of weeks. Virtually all of the recipients were completely befuddled as to what had happened (which is why they emailed the vendors). They had no idea that they actually needed to get a seed import permit (which is free) and have a copy of the permit included with the order. (There are a few more details to the proper way it should be done and many of you know about these, so I won’t get into it here.) So I wrote up a detailed set of instructions that the vendors could send to these customers on how to get the permit and how to use it. >> >> This all suddenly happened in the past month. >> >> So warning #1: For those of you in the U.S. ordering from overseas, it appears that the USDA agents have suddenly become vigilant in intercepting seed packages from international sources. (I don’t know why, but I have some suspicions.) You might want to insist on people/nurseries sending you seeds from other countries that they include a copy of your seed import permit with the seeds from now on. <https://aphis.usda.gov/aphis/ourfocus/…> >> >> Today however, I have had several phone calls from the USDA inspection station at LAX because my permitted seed orders arrived. In their manual Plants for Planting <https://aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/…>, there is a huge list of species, from page 6-6 to 6-983, that lists all kinds of additional requirements or restrictions or even forbidding some from being imported. Usually, it only applies to live plants. But sometime it applies to seeds as well. (And sometimes it restricts the plants but specifically says that seeds are allowed in.) It turns out the manual says that all sweet pea and Lathyrus seeds have to be fumigated with methyl bromide before being sent to the U.S. unless they are from Mexico or Central America. The entry in the Plants for Planting Manual even references the specific kind of treatment it requires with an index number. This index number links to an entry in another manual you can download from their website called the Treatment Manual <https://aphis.usda.gov/import_export/plants/…> that describes in detail each particular kind of treatment (dosages, durations, etc.). So I reluctantly agreed with them that they had to destroy my second set of orders. >> >> But I really really wanted to get some of these varieties. So I contemplated all kinds of things including having them sent to a friend in Mexico or Central America, who could re-package them and send them to me from their country (although I suspected that somewhere else in one of their manuals they have some regulation forbidding that as well). So just for kicks, I decided to download the treatment manual to see if there might be any way I might get a vendor to somehow comply with the fumigation requirements. (It turns out that unless it’s a big (read: commercial) order, it’s ridiculously hard because not only does the treatment have to be correct, it has to be overseen or approved by one of our USDA agents but in their country!) However, as I was scrolling through the different treatments, I got lost and scrolled back up and found out that I was in a particular section devoted solely to all the various different kinds of treatments for *seeds*. And right there, right at the top of the section on seed treatments, before the first treatment type was listed was a blue box. And in that blue box was the following “NOTICE”: >> >> <<NOTICE >> Seeds for Propagation. Precautionary treatment for small lots of seeds (1 lb. or less) is *not* required if you can inspect 100 percent of the seeds and you do *not* find any pests.>> >> >> So I called the inspection station back right away, and even though at first they resisted, they finally looked it up themselves (in their own manual, remember), and agreed that it said what it said, and my seeds did not have to be fumigated, and they didn’t have to destroy them. It is true that they would never have known to look there for that Notice, and it is interesting that the Notice is not mentioned at all in their main manual, Plants for Planting, which is the document they always consult every time they are inspecting any imported plants or seeds. It was purely serendipitous on my part, but I’m glad it happened. And now the agents at the LAX inspection station know about it. The Notice is generic, so it applies to any seeds that require some kind of fumigation treatment in order to be allowed in. And they told me they’re sending my seeds on to me! >> >> So warning #2: If a species whose seeds you’re trying to import into the U.S. is listed in the USDA’s “Plants for Planting” manual as requiring fumigation in order to be allowed in, be sure to notify your inspection station about the Notice at the top of page 5-3-30 of the USDA’s “Treatment Manual”. They probably don’t know about it, and they’ll probably try to destroy your seeds unless they do know about it. >> >> Anyway, that was my unexpected adventure for today (and the past month). Maybe some of you will find this informative. >> --Lee Poulsen >> Pasadena, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a >> Latitude 34°N, Altitude 1150 ft/350 m >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >> http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…