Bob and all, Kurita followed up with an articlke I use as a ‘bible' regarding chromosome info and general descriptions. Not easy to locate but it is ’Synopsis of the Genus Lycoris (Amaryllidaceae)‘ by Siro Kurita, Z.Z. Yu amd J. Z. Lin. Sida 16(2) 301-331.1994 I think it is on line, but might take some searching. Let me know your thoughts. Jim W. On Aug 17, 2020, at 4:01 PM, Robert Lauf via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: You might already have seen a review paper from Kurita (1986), which cites all the old papers, which are in Japanese, but this one is in English and he mentions the prior suggestion that a couple of the species are natural hybrids. Interesting reading if you haven't seen it. Available as a pdf https://… Bob On Monday, August 17, 2020, 03:45:05 PM EDT, Jim McKenney via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: Tony, two or three things: Something's still fishy here. I have not seen Inariyama's paper, but if he really did describe it as an "autotriploid hybrid", he and we are not on the same page. The modern concept of this plant is that it is an allotriploid hybrid of Lycoris longituba and something else. In other words it's not an autotripld of anything.Then there is the issue of nothospecies. Nothospecies are not species in the modern sense: they are not sexually reproducing populations. When a taxonomist names a nothospecific plant at rank species, the entity in question has been misclassified: it is not a species in the modern sense. It's often nothing more than a distinctive clone.When a taxonomist decides that a plant originally described at rank species should be treated as a part of another species ( for instance, as a subspecies of another species), the convention is to cite both the name of taxonomist who first gave the "whole" species its name and add the name of the taxonomist proposing the change to the formal name.This sort of information can be invaluable in tracing the history of names. Jim McKenney _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… Dr. James Waddick 8871 NW Brostrom Rd Kansas City, MO 64152-2711 USA Phone 816-746-1949 _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…