Was Greenhouse Heater Issue, Now Pit Greenhouse

Judy Glattstein via pbs pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net
Mon, 01 Nov 2021 17:44:10 PDT
And Lee Raden (I think he lived in Phoenixville, Pennsylvania) had an 
air conditioned alpine house, which was before the family's house was 
air conditioned.

On 11/1/2021 7:25 PM, Mark Mazer via pbs wrote:
> "I just accepted that a true alpine house was more of a fantasy than a
> reality in my location."
>
> Matt..... Linc Foster had an alpine house in NW CT with ventilation at bed
> level similar to what Heath describes in Collectors' Alpines.
> https://amazon.com/Collectors-Alpines-Cultivation-…
>
> Thirty or so miles South, we had an 8x12 Juliana with custom made HDPE deep
> bench level coarse sand plunge beds and extra vents installed on the
> Western wall for the Primula and Sax and other alpines. The East and South
> beds, without the extra vents, grew winter South African bulbs and sundry
> South American's.  Under the benches were all sorts of Trilliums, Paris,
> and ephemerals.  We kept it "frost free" but some of the colder corners
> did  freeze.
>
> Here in coastal NC, this stuff pretty much succumbed to the high humidity
> and temps after a couple of years in the greenhouse. It's now filled mostly
> with cacti and citrus and tropicals that are overwintered in the house.
> Camellias grow in the garden.
>
> On Mon, Nov 1, 2021 at 5:42 PM Matt Mattus via pbs <
> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote:
>
>> Recently I've had many requests that my next book should be about building
>> a greenhouse, but I've been throwing around an idea more like a diary book
>> of the perils and joys of building and keeping a greenhouse, or life with a
>> greenhouse. Surely, the market is small for this topic, but it has had me
>> recently hunting for reference as I incubate the idea.
>>
>> Katheryn S Taylor's book 'Winter Flowers in Greenhouse and Sun-Heated Pit
>> (1941) was my first go-to book when I dreamed of constructing a pit house
>> as a teenager. Last week I spent some time revisiting it and noticed the
>> bibliography in the back of the book that lists about 28 historical books
>> used as reference and 36 books she called 'Reference Books', most of which
>> are now on my wish list. Outdated, of course, but the physics should be the
>> same.  Many are 20th C. books such as 'The Cool Greenhouse and
>> Conservatory' Gould-Adams (1965), the 'Unheated Greenhouse' (1907) K.L.
>> Davidson. And others.
>>
>> There seems to be increasing interest with cool and unheated greenhouses
>> lately (with COVID perhaps and the rise in popularity of flower farming,
>> slow flowers and hoop houses being more efficient). I do think many home
>> gardeners are misguided when buying pre-fab smaller greenhouses that
>> inevitably end up being seasonal 'she sheds,;  but I have had at least 15
>> emails this year on real, home glass greenhouses from folks who want to
>> raise camellias, force bulbs or for garden seedlings. I doubt that it's a
>> true trend, (UK style) but part of me wants to believe that this other
>> house plant trend with younger people (plant dads and plant moms) might
>> result in some percentage of folks who eventually might be more interested
>> in plants for the long-term. It's a wish, anyway.
>>
>> I will add that I found Jim Jones book useful.
>>
>> Lastly, to add to the thread - I heat my 23 x 26' glass house with
>> propane. My burner is a newer Propane Modine heater, one without a pilot
>> light and with external air feed (not sure what it was technically called,
>> but our older Modine would explode when igniting on colder evenings which
>> was scary). I was told that ours was overkill for the size greenhouse we
>> have, but it does the job. We replaced it 5 years ago and some of the
>> burner pipes had to be replaced last year as they rusted which also caused
>> explosions (when igniting).  IT has a fan and external exhaust so I think
>> that might have helped with any gas issues - I mean, we could grow tomatoes
>> and orchids without any problems that I can see.
>>
>> I keep my house at 40º F at night, probably 34 deg. F near the foundation.
>> There is a 4 foot concrete foundation wall, and gravel/soil on the floor. I
>> live about 20 miles from fellow member Roy Herald outside of Boston in Zone
>> 5b or 6a depending on what map you look at. Firmly in the north Atlantic
>> Snow Belt according to Wikipediae where we can get 36" of snow during one
>> nor'easter.
>>
>> I did build a sort-of alpine house about ten years ago. I used a kit
>> greenhouse, a Juliana I think, with aluminum frame and twinwall walls. I
>> bought those aluminum raised sand plunge beds from the UK where I kept
>> ariculas, other alpine primula such as alonii and tried bulbs (narcissus)
>> as well as saxifrages. I was ignorant about so many things, but maybe that
>> allowed me to experiment more. In short, I learned from the few alpine
>> houses in North America that I needed more ventilation, so in the winter I
>> would keep the top vents open and the door always open. I discovered that
>> the auricula did fine, as did the saxifrage but they tended to bloom too
>> early as the house would heat up on warm February days. I later learned to
>> remove the sides of the alpine house in March or April, but often that was
>> too late.
>>
>> Bulbs were a disaster as the elevated beds froze. Later I learned to
>> improvise a keep bulbs on the floor of the larger greenhouse just above
>> freezing, and relocate them to the sand plunge beds in March and that
>> worked. In January and February, I only kept primula and saxifrages in
>> there. I would only close the vents and door on snowy nights. If I built
>> one again, I would build solid plunge beds that went completely to the
>> ground, maybe heating cables? Better vents. I always had to use shade cloth
>> in late spring, which was problematic with high alpines that needed strong
>> light. Summer was always the toughest time, keeping root aphids off of
>> alpine primula was a constant battle, and over heating was always an issue.
>> I think some afternoon shade might have helped, but out humid summer
>> weather made things challenging.
>>
>> In the end, I just accepted that a true alpine house was more of a fantasy
>> than a reality in my location. I'm still hashing out ideas, but think that
>> ventilation is always key, as is controlling winter temperatures. A larger
>> structure might have allowed me to keep the sand beds just above freezing
>> which would have been ideal, as would allowing beds to freeze solid as
>> primula growers do in Alaska. Here, soil would thaw too many times given
>> sun angles and unpredictable winter weather. Keeping such a space within a
>> range of acceptable temperatures is a real challenge.
>>
>> I now grow a few SA bulbs in the bigger glass house (nerine, oxalis) along
>> with far too many other plants that I shouldn’t be trying to grow in the
>> same space (camellia, cacti, orchids, veg seedlings and anything else that
>> excites me).
>>
>> Matt Mattus
>> Worcester, MA USA
>> Zone 6a, or 5b
>>
>> On 11/1/21, 3:08 PM, "pbs on behalf of Judy Glattstein via pbs" <
>> pbs-bounces@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net on behalf of
>> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote:
>>
>>      Jane, it is "Winter Flowers in the Greenhouse and Sun-heated Pit", as
>> I
>>      mentioned up thread.
>>


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