Well, it wouldn’t be just Hippeastrum as a genus where the breeding is kept secret. If I look on KAVB, there is so much information that is not available to the general public. Does anyone know why this is the case? Gordon, to get back to ploidy. Here is a a scientific material that explains explains a few things https://drive.google.com/file/d/…, maybe it is useful. I also think this article offers a good overview on species https://ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/…, which you might already know. For me personally, keeping a diary with notes on every cross I do helps, especially since I do it digitally (easily accessible on my phone, anytime). This way, I create more interesting crosses than those I did before. Cheers, Vlad Am Mittwoch, 17. November 2021 schrieb Gordon Hogenson via pbs < pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net>: > Interesting responses, thanks. I'll continue my experiments and maybe send > an update once in a while. Our experiments could be considered breeding > Hippeastrums, to the extent that anyone who grows on seedlings from a cross > is a de facto breeder. > > Speaking of breeding Hippeastrums, I was a little disheartened by a comment > from someone who is an amateur breeder, who said that Hippeastrum genetics > is kept very secret by the big companies. The parentage of cultivars, the > ploidy level, and information on heredity of traits is all kept secret, so > that amateur breeders have to discover things for themselves. It seems that > it's most likely that species are diploid and commercial hybrids are > tetraploid, but one can't generally be certain, as there are tetraploid > specimens that occur in nature in some species (like H. reginae) and there > are some diploids and triploids, and maybe octaploids, among the hybrids. > Is it possible to determine this without laboratory techniques? Well, > tetraploids are said to be larger, have more substance, and are more > vigorous, but that might be hard to judge objectively. It is said that > tetraploids will often be self-fertile, but diploids are generally > self-incompatible. I'm not sure how reliable that characteristic would be > as a test, though. > > I suppose it would be helpful if amateur breeders assembled their > knowledge. Some information may be gleaned from experiments with our own > plants, and much can be learned from published internet articles and > scientific papers. > > On Tue, Nov 16, 2021 at 2:04 PM Marc Rosenblum via pbs < > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: > > > On 11/16/2021 10:04 AM, Vlad Hempel via pbs wrote: > > > Hello Gordon, > > > > > > I am so happy to read this email from you, as it means I am not > completly > > > crazy, to do such experiments mysef with Hippeastrum. > > > > > > I have a very similar experience, however I will say this: most hybrids > > > will substain temps hovering over the freezing point, some will survive > > > temps even down to -12 C. Of course, in certain conditions. > > > > > > In this case, I find the most important is the humidity, especially in > > > soil. If one experiments with Hippeadtrum in zone 9a and bellow, best > is > > in > > > completly dry soil! This either means in a an unheated greenhouse or > to a > > > house wall, where it does not rain at all! Snow in this case would be > > > beneficial, but with the climate change we all experience recently, the > > > permanent snow cover has become a long distant dream. > > > > > > So I suggest got for it, try various things, learn. And most > > > important,fFollow your intuition! > > > > > > Most hardy for me have proven to be H. papilio, H. aulicum, xAcramanii, > > > Exotic Star, most Rascals, La Paz, Evergreen and you will laugh, Chico > > too. > > > All survived short temps down to -12 C, here in Berlin. And not just > one > > > winter. Yes, they were completly dry and not exposed to winds or any > > rain. > > > Most bloomed in 2nd half of May, when it warms up here. > > > > > > Good luck, > > > Vlad > > > > > > > > > > > > On Tue 16. Nov 2021 at 18:48 Gordon Hogenson via pbs < > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: > > > > > >> I grow Lilium species and have no difficulty finding cultural > > requirements > > >> for almost all species that I have come across. Not so with > Hippeastrum, > > >> although some great resources exist, such as the Bulb Maven blog and > the > > >> PBS Wiki. > > >> > > >> Well, the Hippeastrum in Bolivia book is inspiring and has prompted me > > to > > >> add some new species to my collection. My Hippeastrum growing is > mostly > > >> limited to indoor spaces, but I do have some limited greenhouse-like > > spaces > > >> that is usually not heated. I'm in zone 7b in Washington State. > > >> > > >> I've always been interested in pushing the limits of hardiness, but > with > > >> rare and expensive bulbs, I hesitate to do any experiment that would > > risk > > >> the loss of the bulb. However, information available says that, for > > >> example, H. papilio is hardy down to -7C (from a scientific study). > > >> > > >> The Hippeastrum in Bolivia book includes a table that indicates which > > >> species are present at the highest altitudes, which would be an > > indication > > >> of their hardiness. H. cybister is said to grow at over 3000 m and the > > list > > >> of Bolivian species growing at over 2000 m contains 18 species. One > can > > >> look up the climate in La Paz, Bolivia and find that average lows are > > just > > >> below freezing, so clearly H. cybister from these areas must be quite > > >> hardy. > > >> > > >> It is clear that the genes exist for hardiness in Hippeastrum. > > Hippeastrum > > >> hardiness was discussed previously on the list, and many people had > > success > > >> growing hybrids outdoors in marginal zones, as long as the bulbs were > > >> planted near heated buildings. Others tried deep burial and deep > > mulches to > > >> protect bulbs in winter. > > >> > > >> I have tried the so-called "hardy amaryllis" that are sometimes > > available, > > >> hybrids such as the Rascal series of Sonatini types sold by Breck's > and > > >> others. Names include Red Rascal, Pink Rascal, Balentino, etc. Also, > > >> Hippeastrum x johnsonii (St. Joseph's lily) is fairly hardy outdoors > in > > the > > >> South and has persisted for many decades as a heirloom pass-along > plant > > in > > >> zone 8 and maybe into zone 7? I found that most of these bulbs did > > >> overwinter outdoors for me in my climate. However, performance in the > > cold > > >> temperature was not great. Emergence in spring was very late and slow > in > > >> the cold soils. Foliage also suffered in the cold spring rains. The > > >> emerging foliage also suffered from the depredations of slugs and > > snails. > > >> > > >> But even so, I did get blooms and was able to collect seeds outdoors > > from a > > >> cross involving red hardy amaryllis and Hippeastrum x johnsonii and > have > > >> raised those seeds almost to blooming size, although because of the > > >> difficulties the plants faced outdoors, I am only growing them in the > > house > > >> now. > > >> > > >> However, I think that some of the "hardy amaryllis" Sonatini types are > > not > > >> thriving indoors, and actually need more of a cold period to do well. > > >> Hippeastrum x johnsonii has bloomed indoors for me, but not > > consistently. I > > >> suspect it needs the cold period to flower best. My next step is to > move > > >> the "hardy amaryllis" to a mostly unheated greenhouse and see what > > >> happens. I suspect that this would also be a good environment for H. > > >> cybister and other higher-altitude species. The space is not > completely > > >> unheated. I have a thermostatically controlled heat source, an > electric > > >> heater plugged into a "thermo outlet" of the type available in > hardware > > >> stores and designed for heaters to prevent pipes freezing. It comes on > > only > > >> around freezing temperatures. I use this space to overwinter Liliums > as > > >> well whose hardiness is in question. The advantage of this space for > > >> Hippeastrums like cybister is that they could be kept dry, consistent > > with > > >> the dry winter of their Andean home. > > >> > > >> I eventually hope to set up a passive solar greenhouse, another mostly > > >> unheated structure with lots of thermal mass and insulation. Maybe an > > ideal > > >> environment for further experiments with pushing the limits of > > Hippeastrum > > >> hardiness. With patience and persistence, it should be possible to > breed > > >> hybrid strains adapted to such conditions. > > >> _______________________________________________ > > >> pbs mailing list > > >> pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > >> http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > >> Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > >> > > > _______________________________________________ > > > pbs mailing list > > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > > > Hello Gordon and Vlad > > > > Here in Falls city, OR [Zone 8b] we get abundant rain and some > > occasional snow. > > > > I grow 2 of the species you mentioned with a piece of clear plastic > > oriented East to west at a 30degree angle with the high side facing East > > and open on all sides. My soil is sandy mountain loam with a lot of > > organic material and some gravel; so I have excellent drainage without > > losing fertility. I have not seen temperatures below 15F in the 18 years > > I have been here. > > > > Happy growing, > > > > Marc > > > > > > > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net>