Hi Jane,
In answer to your questions about Placea and R. rhodolirion, I converted the cladogram into monospaced text (since I know images don’t come through on this list) so you can see what happened. Those two have been transferred to a separate subtribe Traubiinae in order to make Hippeastrum and Zephyranthes (and Rhodophiala) not be massively paraphyletic. That’s the part I found illuminating about the DNA sequencing work.
(If the reader’s email displays in proportionally-spaced font (most do), the cladogram won’t line up and will look weird. Just copy-paste the text into another document and change the font to a monospaced font and it should look intelligible. Subgenus names are place on the nodes of the branches. Underscores on either side of a name are supposed to represent italics for the genus name.)
--Lee Poulsen
San Gabriel Valley, California, USA - USDA Zone 10a
Latitude 34°N, Altitude 340 ft/100 m
Neorhodophiala
|------------------------------------------------------- Zephyranthes bifida ≡ Rhodophiala bifida
|
|------------------------------------------------------- Z. pedunculosa ≡ Habranthus pedunculosis
|
| |---------------------- Z. graciliflora ≡ Famatina herbertiana
| |
| | |----------- Z. advena
| Myostemma ≡| |----------- Z. ananuca
| Rhodophiala| |----------- Z. bagnoldii
| |----------| |----------- Z. berteroana
_Zephyranthes_| | | |----------- Z. cisandina ≡ Famatina cisandina
|----------| | | |----------- Z. cuyana ≡ Habranthus mendocinus
| | | | |----------- Z. laeta ≡ Rhodophiala andina
Hippeastrinae| | | |----------|----------- Z. maculata
|----------| | | |----------- Z. moelleri
| | | | |----------- Z. monantha
| | | |----------| |----------- Z. tenuiflora ≡ Rhodophiala tiltilensis
| | | | | |----------- Z. phycelloides
| | | | | |----------- Z. splendens
| | | | | |----------- Z. araucana
| | | | | |----------- Z. montana
| | | | | |----------- Z. elwesii
| | |----------| |
| | | | | Habranthus |--------------- Z. estensis
| | | | |-----------------|--------------- Z. jamesonii
| | | | |--------------- Z. gracilifolia
| | | |
| | | |---------------------|---------------------- Z. blumenavia
| | | Eithea |---------------------- Z. lagopaivae
| | |
| | | |------------------ Z. xxx (many Zephyranthes species)
| | | |------------------ Z. yyy
| | | |------------------ Z. datensis ≡ Habranthus datensis
| | | |-------------------|------------------ Z. rubra ≡ Habranthus ruber
| | | | |------------------ Z. martinezii ≡ Habranthus martinezii
Hippeastre|ae | | | |------------------ Z. zzz ≡ Habranthus zzz (many Habranthus species)
----------| | | Zephyranthes | |------------------ Z. americana ≡ Haylockia americana
| | |----------------| |------------------ Z. andina ≡ Haylockia andina
| | |
| | |-------------------|------------------ Z. formosissima ≡ Sprekelia formosissima
| | (Sprekelia) |------------------ Z. sprekeliopsis ≡ Sprekelia howardii
| | (Eusarcops)
| | |-------------------------------------- Hippeastrum reticulatum
| | |
| | Hippeastrum | |------------------ H. xxx (many Hippeastrum species)
| | |----------------|-------------------|------------------ H. yyy
| | | | |------------------ H. zzz
| _Hi|ppeastrum_| |
| |----------| |-------------------|------------------ H. brasilianum
| | |------------------ H. idimae
| |
| | Tocantinia |--------------------------- H. mirum
| |---------------------------|--------------------------- H. dutilhianum
| |--------------------------- H. stigmatovittatum
|
| |---------------------------------------------- Paposoa laeta ≡ Rhodophiala laeta
| |
| |---------------------------------------------- Traubia modesta
|Traubiinae |
|------------------------------| |-----------------|----------------- Rhodolirium montanum ≡ Rhodophiala rhodolirion
| | _Rhodolirium_ |----------------- R. andicola ≡ Rhodophiala andicola
| |
| | |----------------- Phycella cyrtanthoides
|----------| |----------------- P. scarlatina
| |----------------- P. australis
| |----------------- P. angustifolia
| _Phycella_ |----------------- P. amoena ≡ Placea amoena
|-----------------|----------------- P. arzae ≡ Placea arzae
|----------------- P. davidii ≡ Placea davidii
|----------------- P. germainii ≡ Placea germainii
|----------------- P. lutea ≡ Placea lutea
|----------------- P. ornata ≡ Placea ornata
|----------------- P. maulensis ≡ Famatina maulensis
|----------------- P. chilensis ≡ Rhodophiala volckmanii
Griffineae |-------_Griffinia_
-----------|
|-------_Worsleya_
> On Mar 5, 2025, at 10:18, Jane McGary via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote:
>
> Thanks very much to Lee Poulsen for this clear explanation of what is (to me, anyway) a shocking example of lumping. I always wonder to what extent the genomes of the various plants are compared. If only certain sequences are chosen for comparison, have they chosen the right ones? It's true that cladistic charts bring interesting information to light, but they are only as good as their data. (A very misleading picture of Amerindian languages was produced with input from wordlists of poor quality, several decades ago.)
>
> It's good to see the (former?) Rhodophiala bifida separated from the rest of Rhodophiala, and as Lee notes, its cultivation is quite opposite from that of the others. Even though the rest as, as he notes, all Chilean, their habitats cover a great range from coastal dunes to high alpine scrubland, and at least one (R. araucana) gets over into the rain shadow of the eastern Andes. I have some seedlings of various species now and hope I can grow them, or give them to Mark Akimoff for his frost-free greenhouse. The high-elevation R. rhodolirion would need a cool, frost-free, nearly dry winter, as many challenging alpines do. I've always wondered why Famatina was separated from Rhodophiala, but no amateur plant-lover would imagine them to be the same subgenus as Habranthus. By the way, how did Placea escape this reclassification, or is it now Hippeastrum?
>
> I see that the NARGS seed exchange list includes well-known names that have been superseded recently in parentheses, which would produce e.g. "Habranthus (Rhodophiala) bagnoldii." Perhaps we should do that in PBS publications.
>
> Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA
>
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