Presumably R. Mitchel Beauchamp, as a former editor of one or both of the IBS periodicals, knows what form of contract was made with the authors, and it would be interesting to see it. Some of those authors are, to my knowledge, still living. I would not call the content "obscure," since I understood it easily as a member of the IBS up until its dissolution and the formation of the PBS. I don't have any copies now, after downsizing my library, but someone should look at the copyright statement on their print copy. It would have been polite to have contacted living authors to request permission to post their articles, and I don't think any of them would have objected. As a former editor of both journals and books, I was uneasy with the decision to post these publications, but I agree that the potential usefulness of making them available is high. Reproducing them goes beyond the usual view of fair use, but the fact that PBS derives no income from this is a point in its favor. One should consider that during the years of "Plant Life," certain taxonomic views of the editor were enforced that differed from the prevailing understanding of some genera of Amaryllidaceae. Jane McGary, Portland, Oregon, USA On 3/16/2024 11:03 AM, Robert Lauf via pbs wrote: > I agree with most of Kipp's comments, with a few quibbles. > First, our distaste for paywalls does not, in itself, give us the moral or legal right to publish pirated content. > That said, and I believe we as a club have had the discussion at the beginning of this activity, the pertinent facts, which no one likely knows, would be: > 1. Did the journal have authors sign a copyright release?2. If so, the copyright belongs to the defunct society. When that society went belly up, did some other org receive its remaining assets, including publication rights? > Whether or not we're making money off this is immaterial. What would matter is if the actual copyright holder wants to make money off the content, the copyright holder might come after us, sue, demand we remove the content, and/or seek other remedies. This is extraordinarily unlikely given the obscure nature of the content. This stuff isn't exactly Harry Potter. If it happens, we can take it down. > I agree with Kipp that our aims are purely altruistic, and I would expect that any of the authors, if they are still living, would likely be happy to see it. As a fellow author, I understand the desire for anything that gets our content in front of interested readers. > Bob Zone 7 dividing Sarracenias today > On Saturday, March 16, 2024 at 01:34:39 PM EDT, Kipp McMichael via pbs <pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> wrote: > > Mitch, > > You replied to the digest email so the context of your question is lost but I remember the topic. > > No one is making money off of these pdfs and the work put into creating them makes content available that would otherwise be inaccessible. I am going to wager neither you, the other editors nor any of the contributors to these journals were paid for their work. The pdfs preserve all attributions of their original content creators. The members of the society that created this journal paid their membership dues and received these journals for their payment. The society itself is now defunct. > > What, exactly, would be the purpose of concerning ourselves with who gave permission to create these pdfs? Who is being harmed by them being made available? Should we be concerned about whether the authors of the Herculaneum scrolls or the illuminators of the Book of Kells gave permission to have their content made digitally available? > > Too much human knowledge is trapped behind journal paywalls already. More, still, is lost to pointless concerns about securing "permission to share" material that was created by people who wanted to share their knowledge in their first place. I cannot imagine a single author or photographer who created this work being concerned about whether more people get to enjoy it as long as attributions is maintained. I say this as an author and photographer of published content. > > Forgive my rant, but we have to be the change we want to see in the world. > > -|<ipp > > ________________________________ > > > As a former editor of Plant Life/Herbertia, I was wondering who gave permission to make these journals available digitally? > > R Mitchel Beauchamp > > > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net > https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… > Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> > PBS Forum https://… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net https://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… Unsubscribe: <mailto:pbs-unsubscribe@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net> PBS Forum https://…