Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler'

diana chapman rarebulbs@earthlink.net
Tue, 02 Dec 2003 08:29:20 PST
Here we go again!  Is N. felipponei the correct name for N. sellowianum?

----- Original Message -----
From: <Antennaria@aol.com>
To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org>
Sent: Monday, December 01, 2003 8:02 PM
Subject: Re: [pbs] Ipheion 'Rolf Fiedler'

> Regarding the ongoing discussion of Ipheion vs. Tristagma. I'll be as free
> with my opinion as others.  Regarding the yellow species, sometimes
referred to
> as Ipheion, I have been long since convinced that they are more
> under Nothoscordum, following Thad Howard's impression of the genus.  I
> most of the yellow species, and while the assertion seems probable, I
> wonder about the relationship between the multi-flowered species, such as
> montevidense, ostenii, minarum, versus the much larger single-flowered
species which
> seem rather different, such as felipponei, hirtellum, and dialystemon
> (felipponei in flower as I write).  The latter group of yellow species
seems very
> different than the first group of yellow species.
> >>The entire Ipheion genus was subsumed
> >>into Tristagma since at least 1963? Is this true?
> >===================================
> >Have you been hiding under a rock somewhere?
> >They are!  I took the citations I quoted from the
> >International Plant Names Index, so they are
> >readily available on the Web to anyone
> >interested in pursuing the matter.
> Wow! All subtlety aside and sarcasm running amuck.  I haven't experienced
> such a definitive consensus. What amazes me, even in more recent
> more recent than 1963, is the waivering of S. American taxononomic status,
> only among species, but to which of the many genera they are ascribed to.
> Almost all of the "yellow Ipheions" have been ascribed to 4 or more
genera, which I
> find dazzling and indicative of a taxonomic mess.
> Back in the 1980s I saw Tristagma nivale in bloom, and to consider this
> same as most "so-called" Ipheions is a great stretch.  Of course, there
> DNA studies on these that'll prove without a shadow of doubt that they are
> actually Compositae ;-)  (now, that's a bit of sarcasm).
> >Just a quick Google search for Tristagma uniflorum
> >turned up dozens of reference sites in several
> >languages whose authors were at least aware
> >of the synonymy
> Demonstrating the number of "hits" on a google search is rather
> because you'll find just as many hits under whatever genus name you want
> search under.  Google searches are not a measure of what taxonomic opinion
> valid, albeit, they are interesting.
> >In 1963, Hamilton P. Traub, editor of Plant Life,
> >wrote: "Poeppig (1833) proposed the genus
> >Tristagma, with T. nivale (T. nivale Poepp. ex
> >Endl. 1835) as the type.  This generic name
> >has priority over Ipheion Rafinesque (1837)
> >with a type (I. uniflorum) [Lindl.] Raf.) which
> >has to be transferred to Tristagma on
> >phylogenetic grounds."   See:
> >Liliaceae Tristagma uniflorum (Lindl.) Traub
> >in Plant Life, xix. 61 (1963).
> >This means that there is no more Ipheion.
> Citing Traub as "definitive" carries a certain amount of risk and
>  Traub is rather famous (notorious, or infamous is more like it) for being
> consummate splitter (even among splitters), as well as being
self-motivated to
> name as many species and taxonomic revisions to his claim as possible.  As
> student of the genus Allium myself, I do know that Traub is responsible
> identifying quite a number of Mexican Allium, which still stand to this
> But then again, I look towards consensus, and have heard sufficient
consensus on
> this group within Allium to carry forward (and judging from my own
> growing 5 species out of 15-16 Mexican species with which to gauge)... yet
> with other groups of plants, the status is much more muddied and much more
> contentious.
> >This means that there is no more Ipheion.
> >All the correctly "recognized" species in this
> >genus are now Tristagma.
> Ah, but that's half the trick right there.  What constitutes "all the
> correctly recognized species in this genus [Ipheion] are now Tristagma" is
> undefined variable and therefore rather meaningless.  I'm still waiting
for a
> definitive enumeration of the South American bulbous genera, which seem to
> float between various genera like fruit flies hovering between various
types of
> rotting fruit.  One cannot be as certain as has been proposed.
> Mark McDonough Pepperell, Massachusetts, United States
> antennaria@aol.com "New England" USDA Zone 5
> ==============================================
> >> web site under construction - http://www.plantbuzz.com/ <
> _______________________________________________
> pbs mailing list
> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org
> http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php

More information about the pbs mailing list