Usually Americans mean just the white coating to refer to frost and if the whole tissue is frozen it is a freeze usually in reference to meaning that it means it is time to clean up the vegetable garden because the tomatoes are killed. When less that amount of freezing we are still in denial and say "not in my yard" while the non plant people (American car culture and sports mentality people who think the whole world belongs to them.) Unfortunately I live in a Big Ten town (major university football) with the stadium down the street.] think there was a frost just because the had frost on their windshield even though the ground warmth has kept all the plants warm A freeze usually lasts more than a couple hours. So many plant tolerate frost as long as the leaves don't freeze solid. Europeans refer to frost as all freezing as in "degrees of frost". Of course then there is the next level of freezing where the soil freezes. When we have a freeze without frost the damage is severe because of the frost has some insulating effect. Ever notice how we don't have frost in winter? I think that is because the frost forms on warm surfaces and in winter there is less temperature between the surface and the air temperature. I think a hoary frost is when you have fog at below freezing. That is very rare in non maritime areas. I remember one time it was near 0F with a heavy fog and frost was piling up very fast of everything ----- Original Message ----- From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, November 13, 2007 10:30 AM Subject: Re: [pbs] FROSTS Isn't there some ambiguity in the way we use this word "frost"? In the usage I'm familiar with, "frost" is something observed at above freezing temperatures: the light dusting of white observed on mornings when the air temperature is above freezing but maybe well down into the 30sF. Yet many other people seem to use the term "frost" to refer to below freezing temperatures, as in "we had five degrees of frost this morning". What some people call "frost damage" I would call "freeze damage". Basil and coleus are prone to frost damage in the terminology I'm used to; lilies which sprout too early are prone to freeze damage but are rarely bothered by frost. How are others using these words? Jim McKenney jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, USDA zone 7, where 65ยบ F is predicted today. My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/