LIST FORMATTING. When I read what you folk say about formatting issues and the associated technical "stuff" I am awareof two important things as follows : - [a] just how 'thick' technologically I am, a subject of great despair to one of my daughters and here uber highly paid husband who writes code in double didgit number languages and earns telephone numebrs as a consequence; and [b] just how glad I am to be able to grow plants we share common interest with which means this retarded Highlander can continue to move in exalted circles by association and LIFE DOESN'T SEEM SO BAD. The latter [b] never the less proves a refuge from the technological world. I too get weird versions of the messages posted comming in on my PC and I even get messages posted in reply to earlier postings which have never arrived here. Now THAT is clever! but I am none the wiser, and it has to be said, if ignorance be truly bliss then I must be a happy man. In awe of the clever technological wizzards on PBS. Iain PS. Spring has arisen, we have had three days on the trot without frost, praise the Lord and pass the whisky..... please note the correct spelling of 'whisky', hic! ----- Original Message ----- From: <pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org> To: <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Sent: Tuesday, April 29, 2008 6:16 PM Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 > Send pbs mailing list submissions to > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to > pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org > > You can reach the person managing the list at > pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org > > When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific > than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." > > > List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/> > > Today's Topics: > > 1. Re: Re : carefree garden bulbs (Mary Sue Ittner) > 2. PBS list formatting (Mary Sue Ittner) > 3. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (Jim McKenney) > 4. Re: PBS list formatting (Robt R Pries) > 5. Re: PBS list formatting (Diane Whitehead) > 6. Re: PBS list formatting (Jim McKenney) > 7. Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting > (Mary Sue Ittner) > 8. Re: carefree garden bulbs (Boyce Tankersley) > 9. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (J.E. Shields) > 10. Iris susiana (lucgbulot@aol.com) > 11. Aril Society International and miscellaneous (lucgbulot@aol.com) > 12. Re: PBS list formatting (Nhu Nguyen) > 13. Re: PBS list formatting (Kelly Irvin) > 14. Re: More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan (Robt R Pries) > > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > Message: 1 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 06:50:43 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> > Subject: Re: [pbs] Re : carefree garden bulbs > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429063915.035e0d28@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > The term "bulbs" in this definition is inclusive. Lists can include > geophytes, as well as plants with corms, rhizomes, tubers, tuberous roots, > not just bulbs. We've discussed on this list a lot what exactly can be > included as our subject and we've never come up with an exact definition. > There always seem to be exceptions. Some plants we talk about aren't > really > geophytes since they are evergreen. We have chosen to allow flexibility > about this. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 2 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:22:31 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> > Subject: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429065911.035ebdb8@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Like Paul I received Luc's message in one big paragraph which I agree > stops > you from wanting to read it. There are a couple of people's posts that > arrive that way for me. I'm not sure what to do about it. When Susan and I > were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what she > received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I > received on my PC. All the messages are supposed to be sent in text. Html > is stripped which is why some messages come in blank so I don't know why > they should look different on different computers. I receive messages that > come into my email program as html (formatted with different fonts, > colors, > embedded images) just fine. Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces > between the paragraphs, but not always. That is easier to cope with than a > jumble of words. I've often wondered also why in the archives to read some > messages you have to scroll and to read others you don't. I expect all > email programs are a little different and what is sent out therefore is > different as well as what is received. > > Luc's message in the archives is not compressed and in fact it has > multiple > spaces and you have to scroll to read it. At least that's how it looks on > my computer. > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbslist/old.php/… > > Paul, if it is a message you really want to see and it comes in to your > computer in a strange way, you may be able to read it in the archives > (which are referenced in every message so you can easily find them.) > > In my email program I can edit messages I have received so it is possible > to go to the archives, copy the message and paste it into the message to > substitute for that one long paragraph so it can be more easily read. > > And once again PLEASE DO NOT INCLUDE THE ENTIRE PREVIOUS MESSAGE in your > responses. I don't suppose shouting will make any difference, but for > digest subscribers including the previous messages makes it really > difficult to find the new messages. > > Mary Sue > PBS list administrator > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 3 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:42:19 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <000301c8aa07$3b2877e0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Luc, do those papers give any thoughts about the origin of Iris susiana? > > I?ve read that it has never been found truly wild; and I think the > cultivated material is evidently clonal (with at least two clones). > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7, where if the sun comes out Iris hoogiana should open. > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 4 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:46:23 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robt R Pries <rpries@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <490380.46807.qm@web81901.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > I am on several lists; Recently one of them had a > discussion about deleting previous messages before > replying to them so as to aid digest subscribers. It > turned out that only a few people subscribed to digest > versions and the discussion revealed that the original > reasons for having digests were really not that > beneficial anymore with advances in the technology. Of > course those used to digests did not always see it > that way. On the other hand non digest users often > found that posts that were replys to messages often > made no sense unless the original message was > attached. On that list it was decided to keep the > original message in the reply althought that does not > mean one needs to continue a whole stream of messages. > It appears that what is curtesy to one group is an > afront to another. I don't think there is any answer > to this. > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 5 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 07:47:52 -0700 > From: Diane Whitehead <voltaire@islandnet.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <85E6437C-2F70-4769-850C-2855C681D04F@islandnet.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed; delsp=yes > > I have found an easy way to read emails that are difficult for me to > read. Usually they are html messages with tiny font. I click on > "Reply". My email program includes the message in a reply, and shows > it in a font that I can read comfortably. I don't actually send the > reply, just use it to read the message. This might work also for run- > on messages. > > Diane > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 6 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:51:17 -0400 > From: "Jim McKenney" <jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <000701c8aa08$7d7f8ab0$2f01a8c0@Library> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="iso-8859-1" > > Mary Sue wrote: ?Jim McKenney's sometimes have big spaces > between the paragraphs, but not always.? > > That?s funny because I?ve often wondered what you are doing to my > postings! > They don?t look that way on this end. > > My email system defaults to HTML; as a result, I generally compose in HTML > and usually (but not always) remember to convert to plain text before > sending. > This message, for instance, was composed in HTML and then converted. There > are single spaces between paragraphs and the signature block. > > Jim McKenney > jimmckenney@jimmckenney.com > Montgomery County, Maryland, USA, 39.03871? North, 77.09829? West, USDA > zone > 7 > My Virtual Maryland Garden http://www.jimmckenney.com/ > BLOG! http://mcwort.blogspot.com/ > Webmaster Potomac Valley Chapter, NARGS > Editor PVC Bulletin http://www.pvcnargs.org/ > Webmaster Potomac Lily Society http://www.potomaclilysociety.org/ > > > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 7 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 08:09:22 -0700 > From: Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> > Subject: [pbs] Including the entire message, was pbs list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <5.2.0.9.2.20080429080028.031c3138@mail.mcn.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > Hi, > > Our list has 260 regular subscribers and 194 digest subscribers so we have > more than just a few digest subscribers. I've heard from many of our > digest > subscribers that they don't want to receive a lot of messages and that is > why they choose the digest to bundle their messages instead of getting one > at a time. Technological advances wouldn't change this reason for getting > a > digest. When the entire previous message is included, besides making it > difficult to read, more digests are triggered. It is permissible to leave > a > line or two from the previous message you are responding to if you think > it > is necessary. > > Mary Sue > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 8 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:14:06 -0500 > From: "Boyce Tankersley" <btankers@chicagobotanic.org> > Subject: Re: [pbs] carefree garden bulbs > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: > <52857FDB394B7E45BA1F2E60D7313E2A0BA4AA37@cbgmail.chicagobotanic.org> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > I've modified Diane's season descriptions slightly to reflect our > continental climate in Chicago, Illinois. > > Climate change has flipped on us so far this year, providing a very cold > and snowy winter and a very late (and snowy) spring. Yesterday we > experienced snow flurries for about 1.5 hours and temperatures last > night dropped to 31 degrees F. > > Fortunately most of the spring geophytes are hardy folks and the flowers > survive down to the mid-20 degrees F. Early and midseason bulbs came > into flower simultaneously this spring - providing for breathtaking > displays. > > Winter: November to March > > We read with envy of the geophytes blooming in other parts of the world. > Still in all, the reports help keep the faith that spring really is on > the way. > > Spring: March, April and May > > Galanthus elwesii - one of the earliest reliable bulbs in our area. > During a really mild fall we had a few that flowered in October/November > but that was a very unusual year. > > Merendera trigyna - this accession originated from a Georgian collection > in 2000 and has proven to be reliable near the edge of a raised bed in > the Chicago area - definitely winter hardy. Delightful small pink-lite > purple flowers. > > Scilla sibirica - nothing beats this blue color in spring! It reseeds in > cultivated areas but is not invasive of natural habitats. > > Crocus tommasinianus - the only Crocus to survive long term in this > climate; it slowly increases by division and reseeding. A week of just > above freezing winds unfortunately zapped the display this spring. > > Eremurus - the foxtail lilies have proven reliable over the last 7 years > - and we have experienced some significant environmental conditions > during this time frame. Slow to reseed, the original plants are slowly > increasing in number of spikes. > > Narcissus - Division 1, 2 and 3 are all reliable over the long term. > > Summer: June to August > > Iris sibirica 'Caesars Brother' Deep blue (purple) color and more > reliable in the long term than some of the other cultivars sporting > other colors. > > Bearded iris - miniature, intermediate and tall bearded iris all survive > here long term. Iris borers are a serious pest but avoiding monocultures > of bearded iris seems to provide long term success. > > Lycoris squamigera - the other species are very nice but none of them > have the history of long term survival of this taxon. Clumps slowly > expand over time and the displays just keep getting better. > > Fall: September and October > > The species and cultivars of Colchicum provide the most reliable bloom > in the Chicago region in Fall. > > Boyce Tankersley > Director of Living Plant Documentation > Chicago Botanic Garden > 1000 Lake Cook Road > Glencoe, IL 60022 > tel: 847-835-6841 > fax: 847-835-1635 > email: btankers@chicagobotanic.org > > > > > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 9 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:33:27 -0400 > From: "J.E. Shields" <jshields@indy.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20080429112831.027c6610@pop.indy.net> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii"; format=flowed > > A note on human nature. So often we are told to look at a particular web > site. If the URL is not right there in the message, there is not one > instance out of 1000 where I will take the time to go to Google to find > it. > > On the other had, if you give the link right there in your message, 9 > times > out of 10 I will in fact look at it. It seems like such a little thing, > but in retrospect I see that it makes a huge difference. > > Jim Shields > in central Indiana > > At 06:51 AM 4/29/2008 -0700, you wrote: > > >>If you are looking for more information on Aril Iris >>Species go to the Aril Society International (ASI) >>website and you will see lots of pictures. >>..... > > ************************************************* > Jim Shields USDA Zone 5 Shields Gardens, Ltd. > P.O. Box 92 WWW: http://www.shieldsgardens.com/ > Westfield, Indiana 46074, USA > Tel. ++1-317-867-3344 or toll-free 1-866-449-3344 in USA > > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 10 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:35:38 -0400 > From: lucgbulot@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Iris susiana > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA7825CEE9B6E8-49C-16C3@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > > > > > Dear Jim, > > No there is not a single word about Iris susiana in those papers. From > what I know Iris susiana has been for long in cultivation in Turkey. > According to Mathew it bears a great resemblace to iris sofarana and Iris > basaltica and may be a form of one of these. > > They seem to be some more information in the following paper : Avishai?M. > &?Zohary D. 1980. Genetic affinities among the Oncocyclus irises. > Botanical Gazette, Vol. 141, No. 1, pp. 107-115 but I have not purchased > that paper yet. > > I will carry on searching for more info and let you know. > > Luc > > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 11 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 12:10:28 -0400 > From: lucgbulot@aol.com > Subject: [pbs] Aril Society International and miscellaneous > To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > Message-ID: <8CA782AAC9B83BA-49C-19BD@mblk-d26.sysops.aol.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" > > Thanks for the imput Bob... > > I have also been in contact with Yuval Sapir and Ori Fragman and learned a > lot from them. As far as know Yuval is not at Indiana University anymore > and his homepage there does not work anymore... > > For those interested the Aril Society Website is : http://www.arilsociety.org/ (I > plan to join this year)... > > Looking more closely to references on Iris bismarkiana, I found the > following one: > > Sapir, Y., A. Shmida and H. P. Comes. 2001. Iris bismarckiana in Israel > and Jordan - new findings and taxonomic remarks. Israel Journal of Plant > Sciences 49(3):229-235 > > If anybody has access to this paper I will be most happy to get a copy... > pdf or paper... > > Luc > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 12 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 09:13:43 -0700 > From: "Nhu Nguyen" <xerantheum@gmail.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: > <f41531280804290913s905ee16yc20f5cc8ad630687@mail.gmail.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1 > > On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> wrote: > >> Hi, >> >> ...When Susan and I >> were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what >> she >> received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I >> received on my PC... > > > Mary Sue, > > Just a tidbit on that issue. Once again we are dealing with the nasty > issue > of Mac/PC conversion. I have noticed the same problem when dealing with > text. Turns out that the two operating systems use different line > formatting. When you hit enter once in a Mac, it makes a new line, but PCs > read it as two enters. I am not sure if the newer versions of Macs have > solved this problem. It gets frustrating when they can't even standardize > something as simple as plain text. > > Nhu > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 13 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 11:34:01 -0500 > From: Kelly Irvin <kellso@irvincentral.com> > Subject: Re: [pbs] PBS list formatting > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <48174DF9.9090902@irvincentral.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed > > Nhu: > > In the case of Luc's post, the formatting came through fine on my Mac. I > would stab a guess at variation by how the various HTML email editors > create paragraph breaks, which can be with <p> or <br><br>, then how > that gets messed with by the server and/or our own personal machines. I > would think the best advice, until we know otherwise, would be for > people to choose in their preferences to format e-mail with HTML and > plain text, if they generally like to format in HTML. This way, the > server should (I think) choose the plain text version which is hidden in > the message. --Kelly > > P.S. Just a speculation. > > Mr. Kelly M. Irvin > 10850 Hodge Ln > Gravette, AR 72736 > USA > 479-787-9958 > USDA Cold Hardiness Zone 6a/b > > http://www.irvincentral.com/ > > > Nhu Nguyen wrote: >> On Tue, Apr 29, 2008 at 7:22 AM, Mary Sue Ittner <msittner@mcn.org> >> wrote: >> >> >>> Hi, >>> >>> ...When Susan and I >>> were working together on the list and the wiki we discovered that what >>> she >>> received for a list message on her Mac was very different from what I >>> received on my PC... > > > ------------------------------ > > Message: 14 > Date: Tue, 29 Apr 2008 10:16:32 -0700 (PDT) > From: Robt R Pries <rpries@sbcglobal.net> > Subject: Re: [pbs] More about Oncocyclus in Israel and Jordan > To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> > Message-ID: <484685.85529.qm@web81907.mail.mud.yahoo.com> > Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1 > > Sorry for not including the Aril Society wesite; it > is http://www.arilsociety.org/arilsociety.pl?index I > no doubt miss a few e-mails and send others quickly > since i am going crazy packing. > > > ------------------------------ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > > End of pbs Digest, Vol 63, Issue 33 > ***********************************