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As I mentioned i the Coccinia topic (https://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/pbsforum/index.php?topic=386.0) before, I was trying out a few root crops this year.

The first one to harvest was Cyperus esculentus

Height:	45-60 cm (1.5-2 ft)
Flower Colors:	green
Special:	edible storage organ

, which I'd attest a delicious hazelnut-like flavor eaten raw & fresh and good yield even though I only planted one pot, see wiki. Seems to be one to keep, but has the reputation of becoming invasive easily - it doesn't flower in my climate, so I'll just have to be careful about discarded potting soil...

I've also tried Tropaeolum tuberosum

Flower Colors:	orange, yellow, red
Flower Season:	late summer
Special:	climber, edible flowers, edible storage organ

- I like the taste of the fresh tubers, somewhere close to Tropaeolum major leaves, whereas the Tropaeolum tuberosum leaves are nowhere near as intense. Yield was diminishing though, see attached. The plants started growing when planted in may, then went nearly completely dormant for my hot summer, to return to growth in September - I harvested ahead if the first freezing end of November. They never even tried to flower, so I guess that one is not ideal for my hot summer climate.

Oxalis tuberosa

had an acceptable yield, though I've heard it gets bigger the longer the growth phase in short day conditions is. haven't tried to cook it, but raw they are delicious, somewhat like mild rhubarb. Keeper, I'd guess. Has anyone experience with eating the parts overground?

Yacón Smallanthus sonchifolius

- can't say too much about the yield, because those came potted, but it's obvious that those roots didn't originally fit in 11 cm pots. With them, too, I noticed a pause in growth during the very hot phases and a boost in September, I harvested them end of November. For now I only tried a piece of root from the white one, and found it bland tasting - watery with a hint of dahlia petals - not what I expected from something advertised as "underground fruit". They are said to sweeten in storage, so I'll wait for a final verdict, but for now I'm not impressed. No flowers, but that seems normal for my area.

Olluco (Ullucus tuberosus

) was a faillure - a few leaves, somewhat late, and I think one or two "color balls" of yield ( I planted 7 ).

All in all I guess the South American species don't tollerate my heat and are not too happy with my cold. I should search other possible origins for better fitting underground crops. Sidenote to the North American Helianthus tuberosus

Height:	150-300 cm (4.9-9.8 ft)
Flower Colors:	yellow
Flower Season:	mid autumn to late autumn
Special:	edible storage organ
Life form:	deciduous tuber

: yield is massive, hardiness is good, taste is ok when raw and not my thing cooked. I removed them last year due to taking up too much space.

The only one I have tried and eaten is Oxalis tuberose. Robert P gifted me a wonderful selection of 'cultivars' that we grew at Cabrillo horticulture for sale at the farmers market.

The yield in 1 gallon pots was really variable some producing 1-2 tubers while other over 10.

I also have one in a much larger pot that I have not harvested yet.

Taste is wonderful. Cooked in stir fry they have a really smooth texture and a slightly sweet taste.

Thanks for that information, Martin. I'm interested in this topic too, so I hope others will contribute their experiences. Of your list, I've only intentionally grown oca, Oxalis tuberosa. I ordered several cultivars in the spring. I had tremendous foliage growth from all of them all summer long, but in the fall, zero tubers. I knew they were a long shot with the summer heat here (NW Arkansas, US) and this year the heat lasted even longer than usual, so I was prepared for the failure. I've looked for heat tolerant cultivars but never found one.

Unintentionally, Cyperus esculentus is considered both native and introduced across most of the US, including here, and I think I killed off a stand of it in the yard when we moved here. Maybe I should try growing it intentionally. (But potted.)

Steve

Steve

The Andean tubers are not fans of hot and dry, don't like dry in any case.

Tropaeolum tuberosum  (Mashua) has stopped growing, and some of the vines are senescing, but generally still leafy, tubers are showing, both my varieties flowered in Oct/Nov...I should check if the seed pods have viable seeds inside.

Oxalis tuberosa (Oca) still two varieties out in the rain that haven't gone down. One went down a couple weeks before Thanksgiving (along with the Ulloco), the others bit by bit. Yields in the range of 1-3 pounds per large pot/planter. Taste varies between varieties...sweet/starchy and bland/tangy. Lovely in a salad or stirfry.

Smallanthus sonchifolius has stopped growing, and leaves are starting to yellow and fall, the soil has bulged up across the pot. No flowers.

Ullucus tuberosus (Ulloco), I still have two pots (of 3) to harvest, got a pound plus of tubers fuchsia colors, that have faded to green/purple. Yummy sauteed, softer than potato, with a nore turnipy flavor. Remarkable harvest based on the diminutive plants.

Solanum tuberosum (Potato) from seed, moderate growth on top, moderate yield (<1 pound), despite the seed parentage, but produced round purple tubers. Quite different plants forms though. Turns out the rats love potato fruits, so no seed for me. Both with distinct potato flavor, one starchy, one less so.

Ulloco and Oca at least are strongly day length controlled for tuber growth...all my Oca stopped growing vegetatively at the fall equinox. The other probably make most of their tuber growth late in the year. Of course, my summer temperatures are like the Andes at 12,000 feet...

I find that Oca really likes free root and tuber/stolon growth...stolons ending in tubers are often more than a foot long. Maybe big grow bags would be the way to go vs. big heavy planters. Argh. the rats are digging the tubers, even with added soil in the planters...the last planter has mesh over it now!

You could browse around the sites and sellers of Andean tubers...perhaps Canna edulis would tolerate warmth better.

In any case, for those who are interested, I will have plenty of smaller tubers for sharing once they all go dormant and get lifted. Have a few more pounds of oca to clean tonight.

I can attest to Oca being very tasty.  Robert was kind enough to send me some tubers earlier this year. I had them growing both in tubs and in the ground.  The ones in the ground, in somewhat poorer soil, produced larger tubers than those in the tubs.  But the soil in the tubs, supplemented with alpaca manure last Fall, was probably richer than the Oca preferred for tuber production as they did produce very lush above-ground growth.  (My wife has alpaca and their poops ("pellets") which are low in nitrogen can be applied directly to the soil without prior composting.)

The Oca, when roasted, have a nutty, slightly citrussy taste and are quite wonderful.  The Oca keep well, and we'll certainly be planting some of our harvest again next year. So, thanks, Robert!

Everything is finally lifted. Been digging since before Thanksgiving, so mid-November to mid-December.

32 pounds harvested and cleaned. Of course many are too small for eating, but can be shares and next year's seed tubers.

Oca (Oxalis tuberosa) dozen+ varieties 16 lbs/7kg, again Creamy Yellow was the highest yielder with nearly 4 pounds. A couple poor performers are going to get turfed out.

Mashua (Tropaeolum tuberosum, a nasturtium relative), 4 varieties, 8 lb/4kg. Hoh lead with 4.5 lbs. Candy Cane is very pretty with well formed tubers...next year gets a favored position.

Potato (Solanum tuberosum, potato from seed), 2 clones, less than a pound, much slower to start than from tubers.

Ulluco (Ullucus tuberosus) 2 varieties 2.5 lb/1kg, both bright pink one rounded, one elongated.

Yacon (Smallanthus sonchifolius) 1 variety, 8 lb/4kg, no exciting color, and bland, needs to be exposed to the sun to convert the indigestible sugars (low usable calories, but lots of wind). Also 3.5 pounds of propagule tubers, supposedly tolerant of more warmth than any of the others.

That was fun, and yummy...OK, except the yacon which I need to find a place in the sun where the critters can't go.

I think the mashua is the most exciting of the flavors, being savory and peppery.

Many small tubers for most of the varieties, so they'll be easy to share, they tend to start growing early (March) so a little challenge for people in cold areas...along with the very late maturity.

Wasabia japonica is more of a caudiciform than a geophyte...my big pot is next up for dismembering.

Robert
in chilly SF, with lots of winter geophytes showing off

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 19, 2022, 11:00:26 PMYacon (Smallanthus sonchifolius) 1 variety, 8 lb/4kg, no exciting color, and bland, needs to be exposed to the sun to convert the indigestible sugars (low usable calories, but lots of wind). Also 3.5 pounds of propagule tubers, supposedly tolerant of more warmth than any of the others.

So I thought it was my fault - yes, totally bland when fresh! And one needs sun? I read only about storage, which is doable, but sun? no way here at 48°. And still ~32 hours to solstice...

As I said before: the Andean stuff doesn't work too well for me. Does anyone have experience with Stachys affinis?

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 19, 2022, 11:00:26 PMOca (Oxalis tuberosa) dozen+ varieties 16 lbs/7kg, again Creamy Yellow was the highest yielder with nearly 4 pounds. A couple poor performers are going to get turfed out.


Robert
in chilly SF, with lots of winter geophytes showing off

Hi Robert, those Oca look great. Are you growing them in your sandy SF soil or in pots?

Quote from: Martin Bohnet on December 20, 2022, 05:36:37 AM

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 19, 2022, 11:00:26 PMYacon (Smallanthus sonchifolius) 1 variety, 8 lb/4kg, no exciting color, and bland, needs to be exposed to the sun to convert the indigestible sugars (low usable calories, but lots of wind). Also 3.5 pounds of propagule tubers, supposedly tolerant of more warmth than any of the others.

So I thought it was my fault - yes, totally bland when fresh! And one needs sun? I read only about storage, which is doable, but sun? no way here at 48°. And still ~32 hours to solstice...

As I said before: the Andean stuff doesn't work too well for me. Does anyone have experience with Stachys affinis?

I left some Ullucus next to a grow light, and they responded fairly quickly with color changes while not directly under the lights. No idea if very bright light is required for Yacon to convert to simpler sugars. Uncured, they apparently make a gassy diet food. I think I can put them in critterproof flats outside to get some sun, and hey, if the rats get to them, I can amuse myself thinking of gassy rats. If you have a window with sun, you could line them up on the sill.

Bottom line, I'm not going to grow more than a plant or two next year. Might try a couple of the other tuber crops.

Quote from: petershaw on December 20, 2022, 07:19:57 AM

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 19, 2022, 11:00:26 PMOca (Oxalis tuberosa) dozen+ varieties 16 lbs/7kg, again Creamy Yellow was the highest yielder with nearly 4 pounds. A couple poor performers are going to get turfed out.


Robert
in chilly SF, with lots of winter geophytes showing off

Hi Robert, those Oca look great. Are you growing them in your sandy SF soil or in pots?

They are all grown in pots and planters in commercial soil mixes (locals...Annies Mix with coarse perlite/pumice/bark added). I'm up on Mt Davidson, so clay soils. If I grew them in in the ground, the yield would be zero because of the gophers, and in wire baskets, the stolons would go through and be eaten. 

 They were growing in the part shaded back yard, the ones in the shadiest corner looked the best, and produced nearly as well as the ones in the sunnier spot. Minimal fertilization...the biggest problem was keeping them watered, they are not "waterwise" plants.

As for the others, Ulluco is a fragile succulent plant that had disappointingly small tops, but generated lots of tubers

Mashua is a very vigorous vine (yep, Nasturtium relative) I assume the yield would be better if they weren't growing on a NW facing wall, with limited sun untiil they were 10' tall.

Yacon is your basic sunflower, only a few feet tall and didn't flower for me, but definitely produced!

Several decades ago my brother did his doctoral research in the Andes, up above Cuzco. Learned to speak Quechua and Amara.

I mentioned this thread about edible Andean tubers to him.

Here's his reply: " I know nashua as añu, not very common in . Oca is mild and sweet. Olluco has a moist slightly slippery texture and is often prepared with charqui (that's the Quechua word that we get our word jerky from--local freeze-dried meat) which is a great contrast of flavor and texture and also nutritious.  

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 20, 2022, 10:15:47 AMYacon is your basic sunflower, only a few feet tall and didn't flower for me, but definitely produced!

People keep saying that, but it doesn't hold closer inspection. Smallanthus is in tribe Millerieae, so closest well known relative should be that pesky Galisonga. Thats supertribe Helianthodae, so from systematics alone yes, Helianthus isn't far, but Dahlia isn't either - and morphologically I'd say the Dahlia roots are closer to Smallanthus.

Quote from: Martin Bohnet on December 20, 2022, 01:33:43 PM

Quote from: Robert_Parks on December 20, 2022, 10:15:47 AMYacon is your basic sunflower, only a few feet tall and didn't flower for me, but definitely produced!

People keep saying that, but it doesn't hold closer inspection. Smallanthus is in tribe Millerieae, so closest well known relative should be that pesky Galisonga. Thats supertribe Helianthodae, so from systematics alone yes, Helianthus isn't far, but Dahlia isn't either - and morphologically I'd say the Dahlia roots are closer to Smallanthus.

It's DYCs all the way down! Yes, calling them sunflowers is overbroad, but then, I call all the Asteraceae daisies.

Ulluco is probably the best know species in its whole family, so no reductionist nickname there!

I'll try the turnip and carrot relatives next year.

Dragging it ever so slightly on topic, it is interesting seeing the variance in vigor and productiveness between crops and ornamental geophytes, where we get excited about a bulb increase of 100% or maturity to flowering in 2-3 years, where the crop plants have increases in of hundreds to thousands of percents! and mostly flower (such as it is) the first year.

The potatoes from seeds were the most decorative with a couple months of purple-blue flowers, mashua had a brief show of orange red skinny flowers where the vines reached bright sun. Ulluco is not showy, and Oca flowers very weakly.

Judy, neat to hear that!

Went to an International Market today and for the first paid attention to some of the tubers for sale.

They have produce and groceries from all over the world.

Several from Ecuador, and the price per pound is less than it would cost you to mail me a few seeds.

Before yesterday I dug up one row of sweet potatoes, a little late I must admit. I am very impressed with the number of delicious tubers. Here in Portugal they sell unrooted cuttings in May. These are planted in well prepared soil and watered in. Once established they get a deep watering every ten days or so. I felt it was little water but my neighbor instructed me like this. The summer was hot and dry and sometimes the plants looked somewhat unhappy but they always recovered quickly after getting water. 
The result is amazing considering the little effort I put into growing them. It is the much appreciated local variety Lyra, it is the first time I have grown sweet potatoes. The basket was full after all was dug up.

Uli

Looks like a good harvest.   How do you prepare them?

It is a learning process..... for two meals we have peeled them, cut into roughly one inch pieces and boiled in water with some salt. This is the same way as we would prepare ordinary potatoes (Solanum tuberosum) except that sweet potatoes only need half of the cooking time. The second lot was made into a purée with nutmeg and a little butter, very good.
Yesterday a Portuguese friend told us that they are best prepared in the oven, whole, not peeled, sprinkled with salt, pepper and olive oil. 20-25 minutes at 180 degrees centigrade. Eaten peeled. We will try.

Uli

I usually bake them as you described.

We have a couple of varieties here, thanks to the large Asian population.  They are whiter than a traditional sweet potato and much sweeter.  My wife mashes them and adds butter which must make them even better.

Arnold, I prefer the orange ones over the white ones, but also came across purple-blue varieties - like with blue potatos the visual effect was more impressive than the taste so for me I'd say orange > purple > white.

Uli, try adding lime juice ( Citrus × latifolia ) to the purée instead of the nutmeg, gives it a totally different "spin" and frees it from the "potato replacement" feeling.

OK, Tropaeolum tuberosum

Flower Colors:	orange, yellow, red
Flower Season:	late summer
Special:	climber, edible flowers, edible storage organ

had a far better year this time around - the summer wasn't as hot in peak, so it did not go as dormant, and was massively invigorated in September. it flowered mid November, and I harvested it now after first true frost, and this time the crop exploded - enough to now try it fried. It's actually quite different than I expected, it loses all of the "edge" of the raw taste. It's OK, but nothing special. I'll stay raw.

The pink Oxalis tuberosa

just kept the same level - didn't really profit from the different summer. I also tried an orange variety which performed even worse - and surprised me by getting the corms above ground. Not sure if I should continue those, even though I like the taste. raw, again. But I started to eat leaves this year. Nice, too.

Oh, and Yacon didn't make it through winter in the first place - just shriveled up under normal Dahlia basement storage conditions.

I don't think I've mentioned Chinese yam (Dioscorea polystachia) here before, but what I've learned about them this year is: they need LIGHT. Those in the dappled shade which was so fine for Tropaeolum barely kept their size from last year, but the one in sun snaked around the pot's floor and got HUGE. The huge one is the variegated clone, so I'll surely not cook it. But I think I know what to do next year.

The harvest is very late this year. Only the potatoes have mostly gone down, and there are still a few clones still green (all from seed). Only a few oca (Oxalis tuberosa) have gone down...got a few pounds from a red clone, but unharvested ones have pushed the soil over the edge of the pots, so plenty down there. Some of the oddities (new to me this year) are still up and green, and flowering heavily if inconspicuously. Mashua (Tropaeolum tuberosum) is still green and flowering, but with bulging pots...the rats left them entirely alone this year. Ulluco (Ullucus tuberosus), up and green and firing off droppers, one clone only is going yellow. Wasabi (an arguable geophyte) is happy as a clam, I can harvest at will.

Yacon also went bad in storage last winter, and the storage tubers are not to my liking (watery, sweet, fibrous), so I didn't try to save it.

I think I'll be able to lift a few planters next week, but the harvest is probably going to extend into the new year.

I have heard that there is very little true wasabi in sushi bars in the US.  It is supposed to be horseradish dyed green.  Having tried both (I assume), what would you say?

How do you grow it?  A mini-documentary on public TV showed it being grown in a stream on a farm in Japan, while Wikipedia suggests it is riparian.

For a long time, Japanese experts claimed that wasabi could not be grown anywhere else. Recently, however, it has begun to be grown in Oregon. I don't know if it's in actual streamflow, which would be possible near the Pacific coast where the grower is, or whether it's in a hoop house with circulating pumps, but yes, it's aquatic. It has not, to my knowledge, been used here as in Japan, see photo of ice cream shop.

There are some geophyte grown as leafy or inflorescence vegetables in Taiwan. But they may not be the traditional edible species, parts, and culinary use in their origin countries. (They might be Novel food in most countries even their evolution origin.)
(In traditional Chinese.)
 
 
Fresh inflorescence of Agave amica, formerly Polianthes tuberosa (Picture and Text)
https://www.taitung.gov.tw/News_Content.aspx?n=13370&s=52947
 
Hemerocallis fresh shoots or sprouts whether being cultivated alike endive. (Picture and Text)
https://www.tcdares.gov.tw/ws.php?id=1761

Quote from: janemcgary on December 03, 2023, 06:22:11 PMFor a long time, Japanese experts claimed that wasabi could not be grown anywhere else. Recently, however, it has begun to be grown in Oregon. I don't know if it's in actual streamflow, which would be possible near the Pacific coast where the grower is, or whether it's in a hoop house with circulating pumps, but yes, it's aquatic. It has not, to my knowledge, been used here as in Japan, see photo of ice cream shop.

For sure the rumours are that true wasabi is difficult to grow, not so much linked specifically to Japan, but the growing conditions required to get a good crop of good wasabi. Given the price, I suspect that there must be at least some element of truth in that as the price would drive people to try.
The only video that I have watched of a Japanese wasabi "farm" has shown shaded fast-running streams. I seem to recall water temperature being mentioned as important too.

Quote from: Ron on December 03, 2023, 07:57:48 AMI have heard that there is very little true wasabi in sushi bars in the US.  It is supposed to be horseradish dyed green.

Maybe in the US too? But horseradish is native to the UK - a roadside weed. Very occasionally you will see people digging the roots, but it is farmed on a very small scale, for manufacturing horseradish sauce - probably the more traditional, perhaps more popular, accompaniment to roast beef in the UK.
To get the right heat v. flavour the commercial producers use a particular ratio of main root (around 10-20mm diameter) and finer feeder roots that grow off the main root.

Cold roast beef and horseradish sauce sandwiches...mmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmmm

Just found this - new(ish), and not the one that I have watched before, which was filmed in Japan

A mention in the video - that it is a brassica - reminded me of something we did as kids....... After any brassica had been cut in the garden, we would get the knife and cut the white pith from the inside of the stem, and eat that raw. It can be quite hot but otherwise it has a typical "raw cabbage" taste. You could get an awful lot from a sprout stem!!
It did/does have one unfortunate effect though - gas, and lots of it!!!

I have two varieties, one milder, one spicier, this is consistent in leaf, stem, and rhizome. The real thing has a distinct taste different from fake wasabi, but they are obviously relatives. Milder and more delicate, to the point that finely sliced rhizomes are a pleasant taste. The leaves are succulent and non-stringy enough in season to eat straight, and probably would be very fine if chopped or sliced in a salad...you get a few seconds of fresh green mild crucifer, and then you get some amount of zing!

They get moist well-drained conditions, shade, and high elevation tropical temperatures, usually high humidity. They grow slowly in the summer despite irrigation. One variety will wilt in moist soil if struck my direct sunlight, or if the temperatures are pleasant and the humidity is below San Francisco normal, the other takes more of these conditions but grows slower overall...in either case their soil is still moist. Misting and more watering perks them right up.

It is very proliferous, and any side bud will root and grow if broken off and planted.

I have not tried any fancier irrigation/culture beyond moving them to shadier and shadier corners of the back yard, and daily hand watering.

I have tried growing this 2X. First was a gift from a grower. I placed it in my pea gravel based aquaponic bed. Too sunny for sure but it grew pretty well. I tried to divide it and killed all of the offsets. 

I picked up another one from another grower. Its growing really nicely in a wicking bed made from a 30gal blue barrel cut in half. Its in shade as well.

I have been reluctant to harvest or divide after my first attempt but maybe I try it again after it flowers this late winter early spring.
I will try some leaves, also looks like my spouse can ferment some petioles.

cheers!