Hi I live in Central/Western NSW Australia my temperature can range from -1deg F - 120 F, I grow all my plants in black plastic pots, winter bulbs are lifted & sorted when they have died down for the summer, they are placed in containers with their tags to ensure I don't lose their names. Here our summer heat can begin as early as October & last til April. To protect my summer growing bulbs they are placed in either a shadehouse or in tree shade as the scorch factor here is extreme. When I empty the bulbs out of their mix it is placed in a 44 gallon container, then when I repot bulbs for the following growing season this mix is thoroughly mixed & broken up, any little lurkers removed, then this mix is placed in pot to be used up to 1/3 - 1/2 full then a quality composted commercial cow manure mix is added to equivalent 1/4 full this is mixed through the bottom mix, then a layer of quality commercial potting mix is placed on top at least 1- 3 inches deep, the bulbs are then spaced on this layer & covered with the new mix & watered in. Due to my temperature extremes it is necessary to take a little care if I want a good display of my bulbs flowering. I grow successfully Lachenalias, Ixias, Ornithogalums 6 species, Babianas, Massonias, Haemanthus Coccineus & Albiflos, Acidanthera, Chasamanthe 2 colours, Acis, Daffodils, Amarcrinam, Amyrillas Belladonna 4 colours, Herbaeceous Paeony Rose, Ginger 3 species, Arisarum Vulgaris, cymbidium & dendrobium orchids to name a few of the plants I grow. Carol Ann Ballard -----Original Message----- From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org Sent: Wednesday, 21 October 2015 9:52 AM To: pbs@lists.ibiblio.org Subject: pbs Digest, Vol 153, Issue 14 Send pbs mailing list submissions to pbs@lists.ibiblio.org To subscribe or unsubscribe via the World Wide Web, visit http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php or, via email, send a message with subject or body 'help' to pbs-request@lists.ibiblio.org You can reach the person managing the list at pbs-owner@lists.ibiblio.org When replying, please edit your Subject line so it is more specific than "Re: Contents of pbs digest..." List-Post:<mailto:pbs@lists.ibiblio.org List-Archive:<http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php Today's Topics: 1. Re: Bulbs for troughs (Dell Sherk) 2. Re: WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots (Michael Homick) 3. Re: Lowering the water table in pots; was Anderson deep propagation flats (Rimmer deVries) 4. Re: Anderson deep propagation flats; was Re: Bulbs for troughs (Pamela Harlow) 5. Re: WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots (Rimmer deVries) 6. Re: WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots (Rimmer deVries) 7. Re: Lowering the water table in pots; was Anderson deep propagation flats (penstemon) 8. Re: WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots (Tim Eck) ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Message: 1 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:56:06 -0400 From: Dell Sherk <ds429@frontier.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs for troughs Message-ID: <442182.95463.bm@smtp207.mail.bf1.yahoo.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="utf-8" Would styrofoam containers offer as much insulation for bulbs as planting in ground would do? Here where it can go down to -10 F, I have had poor results with normally hardy crocus cultivars grown in large planters. Dell, in West Virginia ? zone 5 ? 7 depending on the whims of the climate. (However, here, everyone knows that climate change is a myth just like the absurd idea that burning fossil fuels is a problem.) From: Jane McGary Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 2:28 PM To: Pacific Bulb Society Subject: Re: [pbs] Bulbs for troughs Travis asked, "My question: What bulbs like growing in troughs? Do bulbs dwindle if they aren't refreshed every few years (by dumping the contents and adding fresh growing medium)? Ian grows Galanthus and Tecophilaea in troughs. Anyone else grow bulbs in troughs? " Growing bulbs in troughs is a good compromise between putting them in the open ground (where predators may eat them) and growing them in pots (where they may not have adequate root room). Fertilizing them is necessary; some growers use bone meal, but if any animals (dogs, cats, raccoons, coyotes) have access to the troughs, you are better off with a soluble fertilizer such as Miracle-Grow Blossom Booster (lower nitrogen) applied at half strength in fall and spring. Renewing the soil does not have to be done as often as in pots but I would recommend it at least every four years. Adding prilled lime (Cal-Pril) to the mix will boost nutrition for most bulbs, since like me Travis lives in an acid-soil and rock area. Keeping Galanthus in troughs is a way to segregate special, expensive forms and rare species, and permits easier ways to shield them from bulb fly. Tecophilaea is a good subject for a trough because (1) it grows better with adequate root room, and (2) it flowers best if grown close to the limit of its cold-hardiness rather than in a frost-free greenhouse. If you keep your troughs small enough, you can move them under protection during severe cold spells. You can also cover them easily with a frost blanket such as microfoam (Reemay is not adequate). Making troughs on a base of a styrofoam fish box, as mentioned, is a popular way of creating containers that are not too large or heavy to move, although they are more fragile than the traditional hypertufa trough. Another option has been devised at Wild Ginger Farms by Truls Jensen and PBS member Emma Elliott; they use deep, sturdy "propagation flats" from Anderson Company, which are small enough to move (if you're as big and strong as Truls, anyway) and offer adequate root room for small alpines and bulbs. I recently planted up several of these with alpine seedlings. More information on troughs is available through http://www.nargs.org/ and the many articles on the subject that have appeared in rock and alpine gardening society journals over the years. Jane McGary Portland, Oregon, USA ------------------------------ Message: 2 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:07:59 -0700 From: Michael Homick <michaelhomick@gmail.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots Message-ID: <CAH7Rr8diGKA6hS6exYeoRUXJUA2--7hOzW310MBxxCBX=bUDCw@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 not sure the length you need but could you use a sponge mop refill. Not sure if landscape fabric rolled up would wick water or not. Even purchasing a regular mop head (some are cotton some synthetic) cutting it up and braiding the strands to make a thicker longer wick may work. All the best, MIchael On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Robin Graham Bell <rgb2@cornell.edu> wrote: > Rimmer, I was just today trying to figure out how to drain a low spot > in a raised bed I built. The base of the box has chicken wire to keep > out the rodents & the ground has landscape cloth then 2 layers of > black plastic to keep out the mulberry tree roots. Mulberry tree > providing essential shade but roots are terribly invasive, so I don't > want to put a hole in the plastic. Now I can try to put in some wicks > to do the job! Thank you, sometimes the obvious is everything but. Any > suggestions for large scale wicks would be appreciated.....my 'box' is 8' x 4' x 8". > Robin Bell, Medford OR. > On Oct 20, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Rimmer deVries wrote: > > > Bob > > > > i heard at a bonsai show lecture, (method also used by Streptocarpus > growers ) > > > > that if you put a piece of yarn in the pot extending down you not > > only > keep the pot media moist by adding a wick to soak up water from below, > but it also lowers the water table in the pot. > > > > think- hydro communication with the media below. > > > > they recommend a yarn that does not rot, so not cotton but Orlon or > > some > other synthetic yard. > > > > Rimmer > > SE Mich > > USA Zone 4-5-6 depending on the winter. > > > > > >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 3:10 PM, penstemon <penstemon@Q.com> wrote: > >> > >> Putting screen in the bottom, which is, of course, the only way to > prevent the growing medium (in my case, perlite) from falling out, > will still create a perched water table, but hopefully far enough down > in the deep pots to prevent root rot. > >> Bob Nold > >> Denver, Colorado, USA > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > ------------------------------ Message: 3 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:35:32 -0400 From: Rimmer deVries <rdevries@comcast.net> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Lowering the water table in pots; was Anderson deep propagation flats Message-ID: <A4203308-165C-4430-9048-E70119CB0158@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=utf-8 Bob The onco seedlings I stated last spring have been doing fine just sitting outside in pots of sandy mix sitting on a sand base. We too have had no rain in months so I don't think you need perlite once they have germinated. A friend uses limestone gravel and sand in large potshots excellent results. But do not water before it gets cold. Rimmer > On Oct 20, 2015, at 3:55 PM, penstemon <penstemon@Q.com> wrote: > > > .i heard at a bonsai show lecture, (method also used by Streptocarpus > growers ) > >> that if you put a piece of yarn in the pot extending down you not only keep the pot media moist by adding a wick to soak up water from below, but it also lowers the water table in the pot. > > > I thought about doing something like that. A pipe cleaner or a rolled-up piece of tissue will do the trick on a temporary basis. What I want is for the pots to be able to be completely soaked, and then dry out. > Finding a satisfactory medium in which to grow the onco seedlings has not been easy, and there seems to be no readily identifiable cause for root rot other than the perched water table. > I settled on perlite because the chances of rot are less than anything with organic matter. > If the pots are tall enough, a perched water table is acceptable because the seedling roots generally don?t grow that deeply. > Bob Nold > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ ------------------------------ Message: 4 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 14:37:11 -0700 From: Pamela Harlow <pamela@polson.com> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Anderson deep propagation flats; was Re: Bulbs for troughs Message-ID: <CAAghYLAdvYiDt1gszC7TzLUhGL12v_pUxc2rqxnh=kc4PQGqaA@mail.gmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=UTF-8 Steuber Distributing in Snohomish, WA is another friendly source. $3.95 ea, or 25/$69.95. Also, don't overlook the shallow version. Lined with various-sized bands, the drainage is still great and you have the option of isolating individual bulbs or varieties. Pamela On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 12:01 PM, Nhu Nguyen <xerantheum@gmail.com> wrote: > Hi Jim, > > I get both Anderson pots and flats from Stuewe and Sons in Oregon and > they ship in small as well as large amounts. I grow most of by bulbs > in these pots. I cut a piece of fiberglass window screen and place it > at the bottom to keep the soil from falling out. Great for drainage > and save tons of space! > > Nhu > > On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 11:55 AM, Jim McKenney > <jamesamckenney@verizon.net > > > wrote: > > > I went on-line to check out the Anderson deep propagation flats. I > > would like to try these, but the list of businesses to whom they > > sell (as > listed > > on their website) all seem to be on the other side of the country. > > And > they > > are a wholesale dealer. > > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > ------------------------------ Message: 5 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:40:16 -0400 From: Rimmer deVries <rdevries@comcast.net> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots Message-ID: <A1BB3B18-5BCF-45F8-B2CD-ED7B2CB8B372@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Yes that was exactly what they recommended at the bonsai meeting, a strand from a mop head refill. Thanks for the recollection Mike. Rimmer > On Oct 20, 2015, at 5:07 PM, Michael Homick <michaelhomick@gmail.com> wrote: > > not sure the length you need but could you use a sponge mop refill. > Not sure if landscape fabric rolled up would wick water or not. Even > purchasing a regular mop head (some are cotton some synthetic) cutting > it up and braiding the strands to make a thicker longer wick may work. > All the best, MIchael > >> On Tue, Oct 20, 2015 at 1:02 PM, Robin Graham Bell <rgb2@cornell.edu> wrote: >> >> Rimmer, I was just today trying to figure out how to drain a low spot >> in a raised bed I built. The base of the box has chicken wire to keep >> out the rodents & the ground has landscape cloth then 2 layers of >> black plastic to keep out the mulberry tree roots. Mulberry tree >> providing essential shade but roots are terribly invasive, so I don't >> want to put a hole in the plastic. Now I can try to put in some wicks >> to do the job! Thank you, sometimes the obvious is everything but. >> Any suggestions for large scale wicks would be appreciated.....my 'box' is 8' x 4' x 8". >> Robin Bell, Medford OR. >>> On Oct 20, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Rimmer deVries wrote: >>> >>> Bob >>> >>> i heard at a bonsai show lecture, (method also used by Streptocarpus >> growers ) >>> >>> that if you put a piece of yarn in the pot extending down you not >>> only >> keep the pot media moist by adding a wick to soak up water from >> below, but it also lowers the water table in the pot. >>> >>> think- hydro communication with the media below. >>> >>> they recommend a yarn that does not rot, so not cotton but Orlon or >>> some >> other synthetic yard. >>> >>> Rimmer >>> SE Mich >>> USA Zone 4-5-6 depending on the winter. >>> >>> >>>> On Oct 20, 2015, at 3:10 PM, penstemon <penstemon@Q.com> wrote: >>>> >>>> Putting screen in the bottom, which is, of course, the only way to >> prevent the growing medium (in my case, perlite) from falling out, >> will still create a perched water table, but hopefully far enough >> down in the deep pots to prevent root rot. >>>> Bob Nold >>>> Denver, Colorado, USA >>>> _______________________________________________ >>>> pbs mailing list >>>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >>> >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ ------------------------------ Message: 6 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 17:46:57 -0400 From: Rimmer deVries <rdevries@comcast.net> To: Pacific Bulb Society <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots Message-ID: <E0069E71-BF44-4C42-930A-4D7624DD7C48@comcast.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Robin I have no idea on your dilemma. But it is worth a try. But I suspect the mulberry roots will make their way through your black plastic I too have mulberry trees and have to chisel spade around the beds on a regular basis to cut the roots that get through the landscape fabric liners. Rimmer > On Oct 20, 2015, at 4:02 PM, Robin Graham Bell <rgb2@cornell.edu> wrote: > > Rimmer, I was just today trying to figure out how to drain a low spot in a raised bed I built. The base of the box has chicken wire to keep out the rodents & the ground has landscape cloth then 2 layers of black plastic to keep out the mulberry tree roots. Mulberry tree providing essential shade but roots are terribly invasive, so I don't want to put a hole in the plastic. Now I can try to put in some wicks to do the job! Thank you, sometimes the obvious is everything but. Any suggestions for large scale wicks would be appreciated.....my 'box' is 8' x 4' x 8". > Robin Bell, Medford OR. >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Rimmer deVries wrote: >> >> Bob >> >> i heard at a bonsai show lecture, (method also used by Streptocarpus >> growers ) >> >> that if you put a piece of yarn in the pot extending down you not only keep the pot media moist by adding a wick to soak up water from below, but it also lowers the water table in the pot. >> >> think- hydro communication with the media below. >> >> they recommend a yarn that does not rot, so not cotton but Orlon or some other synthetic yard. >> >> Rimmer >> SE Mich >> USA Zone 4-5-6 depending on the winter. >> >> >>> On Oct 20, 2015, at 3:10 PM, penstemon <penstemon@Q.com> wrote: >>> >>> Putting screen in the bottom, which is, of course, the only way to prevent the growing medium (in my case, perlite) from falling out, will still create a perched water table, but hopefully far enough down in the deep pots to prevent root rot. >>> Bob Nold >>> Denver, Colorado, USA >>> _______________________________________________ >>> pbs mailing list >>> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >>> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ >> >> _______________________________________________ >> pbs mailing list >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ ------------------------------ Message: 7 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 16:35:19 -0600 From: "penstemon" <penstemon@Q.com> To: "Pacific Bulb Society" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] Lowering the water table in pots; was Anderson deep propagation flats Message-ID: <4CD903991267497EA01F575A9E131F06@bobPC> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="UTF-8" The onco seedlings I stated last spring have been doing fine just sitting outside in pots of sandy mix sitting on a sand base. We too have had no rain in months so I don't think you need perlite once they have germinated. A friend uses limestone gravel and sand in large potshots excellent results. But do not water before it gets cold. I water the seedlings all year long, because that gives me the healthiest seedlings; they can be kept green twelve months of the year. The trouble comes when I forget that the pots contain different types of growing media. I have a new batch of seed germinating in perlite now, and when leaves show, they?re going to be watered as though I were growing tomatoes, using a tomato fertilizer even, but grown in deep pots, in pure perlite. Here?s a picture of the Iris kirkwoodiae seedlings, grown in perlite, watered and fed constantly. http://s1265.photobucket.com/user/paridevita/… ?sort=3&page=1 Bob ------------------------------ Message: 8 Date: Tue, 20 Oct 2015 18:51:57 -0400 From: "Tim Eck" <teck11@embarqmail.com> To: "'Pacific Bulb Society'" <pbs@lists.ibiblio.org> Subject: Re: [pbs] WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering the water table in pots Message-ID: <000601d10b89$ecf52950$c6df7bf0$@embarqmail.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset="us-ascii" Fiberglass insulation might work for wicks and hemp is rather rot-proof too. I used to put my crinums on shelves in the basement and run paper towels out the drain holes to dry them off for the winter. Now I dry off my crinums for the winter by putting them under plastic and planting winter wheat or ryegrass in them (and then hit them with Poast or Arrow herbicides in the spring to kill the grasses). By the way, fiberglass insulation is not a bad way to separate a fine aggregate from a coarse aggregate in a bed. I have seen a lot of bed designs which were far less porous than the designer thought because they placed finer aggregates on top of coarser ones, resulting in a bed far less permeable than either one alone. Tim > -----Original Message----- > From: pbs [mailto:pbs-bounces@lists.ibiblio.org] On Behalf Of Robin > Graham Bell > Sent: Tuesday, October 20, 2015 4:02 PM > To: Pacific Bulb Society > Subject: Re: [pbs] WAS Anderson deep propagation flats; Now lowering > the water table in pots > > Rimmer, I was just today trying to figure out how to drain a low spot > in a raised bed I built. The base of the box has chicken wire to keep > out the rodents & the ground has landscape cloth then 2 layers of > black plastic to keep out the mulberry tree roots. Mulberry tree > providing essential shade but roots are terribly invasive, so I don't > want to put a hole in the plastic. Now > I can try to put in some wicks to do the job! Thank you, sometimes the > obvious is everything but. Any suggestions for large scale wicks would > be appreciated.....my 'box' is 8' x 4' x 8". > Robin Bell, Medford OR. > On Oct 20, 2015, at 12:21 PM, Rimmer deVries wrote: > > > Bob > > > > i heard at a bonsai show lecture, (method also used by Streptocarpus > growers ) > > > > that if you put a piece of yarn in the pot extending down you not > > only keep > the pot media moist by adding a wick to soak up water from below, but > it also lowers the water table in the pot. > > > > think- hydro communication with the media below. > > > > they recommend a yarn that does not rot, so not cotton but Orlon or > > some > other synthetic yard. > > > > Rimmer > > SE Mich > > USA Zone 4-5-6 depending on the winter. > > > > > >> On Oct 20, 2015, at 3:10 PM, penstemon <penstemon@Q.com> wrote: > >> > >> Putting screen in the bottom, which is, of course, the only way to prevent > the growing medium (in my case, perlite) from falling out, will still create a > perched water table, but hopefully far enough down in the deep pots to > prevent root rot. > >> Bob Nold > >> Denver, Colorado, USA > >> _______________________________________________ > >> pbs mailing list > >> pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > >> http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > > > _______________________________________________ > > pbs mailing list > > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ > > _______________________________________________ > pbs mailing list > pbs@lists.ibiblio.org > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php > http://pacificbulbsociety.org/pbswiki/ ------------------------------ Subject: Digest Footer _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.ibiblio.org http://www.pacificbulbsociety.org/list.php ------------------------------ End of pbs Digest, Vol 153, Issue 14 ************************************