Hi Jonathan, My plants are not an experiment. I have no controls. Ice might work but peonies are closer to the surface than Lycoris bulbs. I'm not thrilled about the prospect of carrying ice outside every day for at least 6 to 8 weeks. Growing them in pots seems easier if you want to manipulate their environment. I picked a location to set the pots in the winter that is away from all nearby objects, completely exposed to the winter night sky, but is also shaded from the low winter sun by the shadow of a distant tall object (trees) because I didn't want to move the pots around every day. So far, less than 50% of my L. x squamigera bulbs have flowered during any given year. Since flowering percentage is a measure of vernalization, this might indicate I'm right on the edge. On the other hand, all of my plants emerge at the same time which indicates that they are, at least, partially vernalized. However, when I lived in the Midwest, the percentage of L. x squamigera bulbs that flowered was always well below 100% for all populations I ever observed growing in the ground. Undoubtedly, other factors such as bulb size influence flowering percentage. High temps during early spring can reduce bulb size. Tony's information indicates there are better spring-emerging species and hybrids to try on the West Coast than L. x squamigera. As for growing them in pots, they survived our record breaking 50+ inches of rain during the 2016/17 winter. Bulb fly is also a problem with L. radiata, a close relative of L. sanguinea. Best regards, Nathan At 03:38 PM 9/14/2018, you wrote: > > > > > > > > Re: Fwd: PBS website contact:///Lycoris/ (Tony Avent) > > > > > Can some of you who have trouble with vernalizing lycoris (e.g Lycoris > > sanguinea and any others that don't readily bloom for your 'too warm' local > > conditions) conduct an experiment for me? How about putting ice chips on > > top of the site where the lycoris bulbs are planted. It's supposed to work > > for peonies, and is a commodity readily available. It may be worth the > > effort, and the information you could provide would be of value to others. > > > > Jonathan Knisely > > New Haven, CT USDA 6a > > ---------------------------------------------------------------------- > > > > > > Hi Tony, > > > > Thank you for the excellent information. Besides watering issues, the > > primary problem with growing the spring-emerging species at lower > > elevations in Northern California is the lack of cold vernalizing > > winter temperatures. For example, with our minimum low temps only in > > the mid 20's F, in order to achieve flowering, I grow L. x squamigera > > in exposed pots that aren't exposed to winter sunlight. How do you > > rate the spring-emerging species with regard to their need for > > vernalization relative to L. x squamigera? L. chinensis and L. > > sprengeri probably need less cooling? > > > > Best regards, > > Nathan > > > > > > At 01:47 PM 9/12/2018, you wrote: > > >Hi Jane; > > > > > >Hopefully this will help. > > > > > >Based on the extensive body of DNA research, and confirmed in our > > >field trials, there are only 7 lycoris species, with 1 still tbd...a > > >far cry from the 13-20 often cited. > > > > > >Two of the lycoris species have foliage that emerges in fall, and > > >five have foliage that emerges in late winter/early spring. Because > > >all lycoris are winter-growing, the foliage emergence times > > >determines their ability to withstand winter cold. Areas with > > >extremely cold temperatures in early fall that remains so all winter > > >may actually delay foliage emergence, making the plant more winter > > >hardy than in conditions with fluctuating winter temperatures. > > > > > >Those species with fall-emerging leaves are generally winter-hardy > > >to Zone 7....some clones slightly more, some slightly less. > > >Fall foliage (zone 7) > > >Lycoris aurea > > >Lycoris radiata > > > > > >Those species with spring-emerging leaves are generally winter-hardy > > >to Zone 5, possibly colder > > >Spring Foliage (Zone 5) > > >Lycoris chinensis > > >Lycoris longituba > > >Lycoris sanguinea > > >Lycoris shaanxiensis (virtually everything in commerce is x > > >straminea) with fall foliage > > >Lycoris sprengeri > > > > > >Tbd > > >Lycoris guangxiensis > > > > > >All other lycoris are hybrids. Hybrids of two spring-leaf species > > >retains the Zone 5 hardiness, but crosses of a spring-leaf and a > > >fall-leaf species, always produces offspring with fall foliage, so > > >the hardiness of these always reverts to Zone 7. In theory, crosses > > >with two spring species and one fall species could delay leaf > > >emergence enough to increase winter hardiness. > > > > > >Lycoris Hybrids > > >Many of these names are long established, most originally published > > >as species, which DNA has shown to be hybrids. Other names are > > >unpublished and only used by us as working names for the hybrids we grow. > > > > > >Fall x Fall (Zone 7) > > >Two species hybrids > > >x albiflora (syn: L. elsiae) - aurea (fall) x radiata (fall) > > > > > >Spring x Spring (Zone 5) > > >Two species hybrids > > >x caldwellii - chinensis (spring) x longituba (spring) > > >x chejuensis - chinensis (spring) x sanguinea (spring) > > >x flavescens - chinensis (spring) x sanguinea (spring) > > >x incarnata (same as x squamigera) > > >x sprenguinea (unpublished) - sprengeri (spring) x sanguinea (spring) > > >x sprengensis (unpublished) - sprengeri (spring) x chinensis (spring) > > >x squamigera (same as elegans, incarnata) - - longituba (spring) x > > >sprengeri (spring) > > > > > >Fall x Spring (Zone 7) > > >Two species hybrids > > >x chinaurea (unpublished)- aurea (fall) x chinensis (spring) > > >x cinnabarina - aurea (fall) x sanguinea (spring) > > >x rosea (same as jacksoniana) - radiata (fall) x sprengeri (spring) > > >x sprengurea - aurea (fall x sprengeri (spring) > > >x straminea (syn: houdyshelii) - radiata (fall) x chinensis (spring) > > >x rubroaurantiaca - undetermined by DNA > > > > > >Three species hybrids (2 spring x 1 fall) > > >x longitosea (unpublished) - longituba (spring) x sprengeri (spring) > > >x radiata (fall) > > >x roseguinea (unpublished) - radiata (fall) x sprengeri (spring) x > > >sanguinea (spring) > > >x rosensis (unpublished) - radiata (fall) x sprengeri (spring) x > > >chinensis (spring) > > > > > >Three species hybrids (2 fall x 1 spring) > > >x radichinaurea (unpublished) - radiata (fall) x aurea (fall) x > > >chinensis (spring) > > >x rosaurea (unpublished) - radiata (fall) x aurea (fall) x sprengeri > > (spring) > > > > > > > > >Tony Avent > > >Proprietor > > > > >_______________________________________________ >pbs mailing list >pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net >http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/… _______________________________________________ pbs mailing list pbs@lists.pacificbulbsociety.net http://lists.pacificbulbsociety.net/cgi-bin/…