Joe, Ken, John, etal: I think we might be talking about the same thing. Most plants going into winter need to be hydrated. This does not equate to having moist soil or precipitation. A classic example was winter 2003/4 when large numbers of reliably hardy trees in the midwest died during the winter. Their fall had been abnormally dry and the plants were simply not hydrated. All of these trees had experienced much colder temperatures in earlier decades but were well-hydrated. The best example of dry winter assisting in survival can be seen at the Denver Botanic garden Zone 5/6, where they can grow bulbs and agaves outdoors which are not hardy in our warmer Zone 7b, but wet cold winters. Additionally, hydration in bulbs and agaves is quite different than hydration in shrubs and trees. Tony Avent Plant Delights Nursery @ Juniper Level Botanic Garden 9241 Sauls Road Raleigh, NC 27603 USA Minimum Winter Temps 0-5 F Maximum Summer Temps 95-105F USDA Hardiness Zone 7b email tony@plantdelights.com website http://www.plantdel.com/ phone 919 772-4794 fax 919 772-4752 "I consider every plant hardy until I have killed it myself...at least three times" - Avent